HMS President by jonny.amy - Sergal - 1:60 - circa 1760

[jonny.amy]

Hi, new guy here.

 

First time building a Mantua/Sergal 1:60 scale wooden kit of HMS Prseident, a light Frigate, or Sloop of War.

 

I have lots of questions to ask regarding scales, details, colours, rigging, and fittings. The kit doesn't seem to be 100% accurate with scale, and the fittings are very lackluster. Any ideas on what I can do?

 

The building instructions have very little detailed information and give you a basic overview of the build process. I have practically flown blind with this first build attempt. I will post a build log later on when I have finished the second layer of planking to the hull.

Firstly, as I am getting near the stage of cutting the gunports out, I really need some help with the so called "cannons" that are supplied with the kit - to be frank, they are alarmingly under detailed for the kit (even if it is a starter kit), and consist of 12 roughly turned brass "guns", and 12 "trucks" that are made of walnut U-shaped sections.

 

I was wondering if I could use 1:64 scale cannon kits on the model from an online distributor? I am a Design Engineer, so I under stand about the importance of scale, but I was wondering if anybody else has had the same problem, or resorted to the same solution?

 

Also the kit is missing, what I would call esstential items for a naval ship of the period, i.e. Ships boats, gantry ladders on the Port and Starboard sides, Swivel guns, Anchor Strakes, and Bilge Pumps. Again I was considering using the 1:64 scale kits available online to add to the President to make it look more like a real ship.

 

Lastly, Sergal have displayed the ship as a fully varnished model with just the topsides leading to the aft gallery (captains cabin) painted with a dark blue streak. Would I be right in assuming that this is not how a naval ship circa 1760 - 1790 is painted?

 

I will post pictures and start a build log shortly.

 

Jonny

[Cap'n Jack]

Fellow new guy - hello!

 

I'm also building the President though not to the same attention to detail as you!

 

I like the idea of replacing the cannons and looking for the other "attributes" that you mention but for me I'm going to learn doing this model: the techniques and methods to be used and then look to find a better kit for the second effort! Mantua isn't renowned for its kits and had I read the forum that existed before, I wouldn't have started with one! My kit had dried out wood and I had to ring to distributor for instructions.

 

That said the planking has proven fun - I've just coated the outer layer with a PVA/water combo to firm up the inner hull prior to applying the outer hull.

 

Given the free time that I have I'd think that you'll be a little quicker than I but ill look forward to keeping n eye on your progress!

 

Good luck.

[jonny.amy]

Hello Cap'n Jack,

 

I have aslo found the planking fun, although it was a bit of challenge getting some of the planks bent correctly without a strip bending maching! Probably a serious rookie mistake in the eyes of the Veterans! This has resulted in some serious filling and sanding to get the desired sheer on the hull!

 

As for the attention to detail, I was surprised when I got the kit that the "important" bits of kit I mentioned before weren't included, and have read around on this website, I decided that I must add in these attributes for my own piece of mind!

 

I am not entirely convinced the 1:64 cannons will fit, but I think the rest of the attributes I want to add (ships boat, bilge pumps, anchor strakes, etc.) will be fine on this model.

 

And as you mentioned, I would not suggest to anybody that they start with this kit, or any Mantua kit, as I have found the instructions and "scale" plans are very lacking!

Do you have a build page set up yet? I'd like to see the progress you've made so far!

 

Cheers

[Craigie65]

Hi Jonny,

As you have guessed this is not a model of a real ship. So you can do what you want! This was my first build and I used it to learn the techniques for my second build. The cannon are carronade- like which were originally made not very far from where I now live. There a lots of inaccuracies with this vessel.

[jonny.amy]

Hi Craig,

 

This project was definitely a intended as a learning experience, and because of the I am trying to be true to scale as possible, but that is very hard when the plans aren't even to scale, so I'm relying on this being more of a technical exercise and tool gathering exercise than a purist's model. I will investigate the Carronades in a bit more detail before I get too far ahead!

 

Which kit did you move on to after the President? I'm considering a Caldercraft Nelsons Navy kit, but I'm going to have to consider a smaller kit as I'm running out of space at home since I've moved back in with my folks, and have 6 guitars and 250W Amplefier, bed chest of drawers, and this kit in a single room! I may need a man shed!

 

Cheers

[Craigie65]

You have the right of it. Use the model as test bed and don't worry if it goes wrong. I tried to make the rigging more accurate but realised that I should have put in belaying pin racks so just used brass eyelets - it looks okay even if it is not accurate

 

I am building the Caldercraft Bomb vessel Granado . It is about a third bigger than the president but has a much better package. Great instructions and proper plans. If you are short of space they have a number of smaller models that look good.

[SGraham]

Hi Jonny,

 

Another new guy here. I'm also building a kit as a learning experience. I'm looking forward to seeing your build log and hearing how you addressed the problem of those lackluster fittings.

 

Steve

[Craigie65]

Hi Steve

I built this kit last year and you will learn a lot. You will learn even more if you post a log of your build. The people here are brilliant and will help you if you ask

 

Good luck!

[jonny.amy]

Hi Steve

 

I will hopefully be staring my PROPER build log tonight, and hopefully will be able to get some of the 90 odd photos I've taken so far on to this log. My girlfriend is working tonight, so it's quality time with the other woman in my life, the fair lady HMS President!

 

Craig, I like the idea of the Grenado, actually it was the advert in a magazine of that kit that got me inspired to try this hobby! Although I am tempted to build a bass guitar after this (that will be guitar no.7!!), so the next model may have to wait a while! I quite like the idea of HMS Mars or HMS Snake or HMBV Granado, so many choices!!!

 

Cheers

[jonny.amy]

Hi Guys,

 

This is my first attempt at a Build Log, so please be kind!

 

So, I decided to build HMS President in January 2014, I've spent about 4 years up until this point asking myself whether I could do this or not, and whether I have the patiences. Turns out I do!

 

I bought the kit from the Cornwall Model Boats website on the Monday after New Years Day, and by the following Friday I had the kit in my sweaty hands!! As described in the discussion above this build log, I was very disappointed with the fittings on the ship, and that is still an on going matter that needs to be addressed.

 

 

Due to a major lack of patience, I started building the kit that night (big mistake) as I hadn't clear my build area or set up my building jig. But the following morning, the bulkheads were looking great!

 

 

Next I laid the false decks in place, but realised my first major error........

Because I didn't build my kit this far in a build jig, the quarter deck was a really tight fit in to position, meaning I had to trim the false deck to suit.

 

Once all of the false deck pieces were in place, I started placing the deck planks, cutting them to 50mm long strips and gluing them in place. This was a bit tricky in some places as I have big hands and I found my limited supply of teasers wasn't as helpful as I thought they'd be!

 

 

 

Next, I sanded down the deck planks and gave them a significant dosing of tung oil hoping that this would make the look like they had been "bible stoned" recently.

 

After that, I was ready to start planking! Woo hoo!

So my next cock up was not buying a strip bender (something that came back to bite me in the **** with the whales and rubbing strakes), but I slowly made progress applying plank after plank. The progress was very slow and messy because I was using a PVA type glue for this, which has meant significant amounts of filling and sanding has had to be undertaken to get the profile of the hull right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once the first layer of planking, filling and sanding was complete, I makes out the position of the waterline on the hull.

This was so I could split the Walnut planks in to four manageable areas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lastly, I'm now in the process of cutting the bulwarks to match the profile on the "scale" plans.

 

Next process will to be paint the topsides and underwater profile and attach President to her base.

 

Cheers, thanks for reading my build log.

[Craigie65]

Don't forget you will need to remove the tops of the frames that are visible on the inside. Also you need to cut out the guy ports. Not sure how much trouble that will be with the wales and rails you have added already.

[jonny.amy]

Hi Craig,

 

I probably added the wales and rails on to the model too soon, but after all this is a learning experience, so if that is the case, I need to consider that next time!

 

Progress has slowed to a stop this weekend as I've spent all weekend with my girlfriend, so progress will hopefully continue tomorrow evening. I will finish off shaping the profile of the top sides and I'll try cutting the tops of the frames off and place the gun ports. In retrospect, I should have done that before the wales and rails went on.

 

Cheers

[Craigie65]

This model is really good to learn the techniques for your next build. My President is full of mistakes but I am still proud of her. Today I have only softened up some brass rail for adding later. It was too nice to stay in so we ended up in Dollar Glen and enjoyed the scenery

[jonny.amy]

Very nice!

 

I'm very proud of my President, but I really can not wait to get in to a model that is of greater detail and a slightly larger scale!

 

I'll be putting up the next part of my log shortly. I'll hopefully leave work around 7pm so I'll be working on President from about 8:30pm, so I may find time to do it tonight, or leave it until later on in the week. Must remember to tidy up the work bench when I get home.

 

Cheers

[Craigie65]

Happy modelling - I could not be bothered starting at that time. Mind you I have only glued on a brass sheer rail tonight. My excuse is that I need to epoxy resin to cure properly - this is definitely a hobby where patience rules!

[jonny.amy]

I don't finish work til late most evenings and with an hours commute from door to door (on a good day), I don't start modelling until late in the day, but saying that I finid it is the best way for me to relax after a stressful day in the office trying to meet impossible deadlines!

Haha yes that's very true!

 

Tonight I will be cutting the gun ports in to the top sides. What is the best way to do this? I was thinking I could drill a hole in each corner, cut out the rest, and the rasp the corners square? Is that too complicated or should I just cut them out with a scaple and a ruler?

[Craigie65]

 

Tonight I will be cutting the gun ports in to the top sides. What is the best way to do this? I was thinking I could drill a hole in each corner, cut out the rest, and the rasp the corners square? Is that too complicated or should I just cut them out with a scaple and a ruler?

Yes that is exactly how I did mine. I used the plans to create a template and transferred the position of the gun ports to the ship. Then chain drilled out the ports before squaring off using a rasp

[jonny.amy]

Hello Everyone,

 

Sorry I've not posted much recently about my progress, I've had a very busy couple of weeks at work that have seen me doing at least 14 hours a day with an hours commute either side!

I've made some progress with HMS President. I have cut the gun ports out, glued the capping rails in place, cut the lower spars to length and dry fitted them (including the bowsprit) and I have made a ships boat out of balsa and planked it using some if the remaining Walnut strips. All in all, progress is slow, but the basic layers of paint are on, and I've also got round to fettling, painting and placing the brass pieces.

 

Cheers

[Craigie65]

Hi

Glad to read that you are getting some building done. You might want to consider lining the gun ports to get them square and all the same size. I like the painted brass - I left mine as is but wished I had practiced painting ahead of the stern of the Granado

 

Keep the pictures coming

[jonny.amy]

Hi

Glad to read that you are getting some building done. You might want to consider lining the gun ports to get them square and all the same size. I like the painted brass - I left mine as is but wished I had practiced painting ahead of the stern of the Granado

 

Keep the pictures coming

 

Craig,

 

The brass was really tarnished and looking second best when I recieved the kit, so the first thing I did was take some wire wool to the brass castings and clean them up. The hardest thing was getting an even finish, so I decided to paint them. They've had 2 undercoats of white paint and a coat of blue.

 

Lining the gun ports was going to be the next task because I was not happy with the job I did on the gun ports. I'm considering using thw walnut strip to do so as it's only 0.5mm thick!

 

Progress will probably be slow for the next few days as my day job is turning in to a round the clock job!

 

Cheers

[Barnbarb]

Hi & help!

 

The President is also my first build and things were going pretty good until now...I am struggling with the chain plates - could any kind person give me some tips.

 

1)  When I "open"  the sections  to assemble them,  how to get them "closed" without totally distorting them?

2)  How to attach them to the hull,  does  the foot need to be bent & what glue would you recommend for metal to wood, ordinary CA?

 

I've not seen these questions before so perhaps I'm being very thick!!!  but any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks Jeff.

[jonny.amy]

Hi Banarb,

 

I had exactly the same problem as you..... I spoke with numerous model shops within the local area and they all had various ideas, but the easiest soultion I found was to replace the chainplates all together. I scoured the local model shops for replacement pieces that looked more substantial, but found very little of use, withoput waiting for 2 to 4 weeks for the next order to be delivered from Jokita.

 

So, thinking on my feet whilst in the last model shop I tried, I decided to use wire to act as the chainplates. I bought a thin gauge wire (around 1mm DIA), got it home with my other finds, and started working on the chainplates. Make sure you buy enough wire to make 30  deadeye/chainplate arrangements, plus another 5, as you have to have contingency in the length of wire, as it is very soft and can break if overworked.

 

So I cut the wire in to strips around 90mm in length, and placed the dead eye about 1/3rd from the top of the wire, and placed the chain plate about the same length from the bottom. I then proceeded to wrap each end in turn. then just use ordinary CA glue and the nails provided in the kit to attach the arrangement in place. Definitely use a thin pair of pliers to hold the nails in place as you send them home as it is very frustrating when they bounce back out again after you've given it some "gentle" persuation. See the image below for a rough sketch of what I did to each chainplate.

 

CHAINPLATES.pdf

 

The end solution is certainly not glamourous, but saves you a lot of time. It took me 3 hours to make, and a further 2 hours on a rainy sunday evening to put the arrangements in place. I spent 4 hours attempting to get the kit supplied chainplates to work, and only got 2 done.... I think that speaks for itself really!

 

I hope this helps,

Jonny

 

P.s. I have made a lot of progress recently, so will post a new build log shortly.

[Barnbarb]

Hi Jonny,

 

Thanks very much for your very helpful reply.    I had,  just about, come to the same conclusion myself  but wanted to make sure I wasn't  "missing something".

 

The picture on the box shows a very different sort of fixing which is available from Mantua and which look a lot easier to install but as I'm more or less using this build as a learning curve I didn't think it worth spending £10 to replace them.

 

Very much looking forward to your new postings.

 

Best regards.  Jeff.

[jonny.amy]

Hi Guys,

 

Sorry for the absence from the forum for the last few months, it's been a busy few months with work and moving house (twice).

 

I have made some significant progress in the last few months though. I have rigged the main shroads on the main mast, installed all the deck fittings (replaced the carronades with truck mounted 12 pounders) replaced the "home made" ships boat with a cast long boat (at 1:64 scale - but close enough is near enough), and rigged a lot of the standing rigging.

 

I will follow with pictures shortly, and I will give a detailed description of all work carried out on HMS President over the last 4 months.

 

Cheers.

[Smudge]

Hello everyone my name is Andy better known as Smudge currently living in Milton Keynes UK.

 

This is my first build so I wanted something that could give me a challenge but not to hard just enough experience to give me the confidence to go onto other builds.  Was I wrong to start on this model after reading some reviews I have just ordered H.M.S President and thought this would be a good start would love to here some prebuild tips advice best tools best type of adhesive as I mentioned this is my first build so I'm going in blind.

Thank you and I look forward  to herring from you all.

 

Smudge 

 

 

[jonny.amy]

Hi Smudge,

 

I found that President was a very difficult kit to start off Model Ship Building with. The instructions are lacking some serious content that you really need to understand and appreciate before taking on the build. For example, cutting in a bearding line for the first layer of planking, isn't included in the build instructions. Certainly the plans provided are lacking. They give you a general overview of the build process, and thats about it. I used the resources available on MSW as much as possible to build this model to a quality that I felt I could achieve. The quality of the materials provided in the kit is questionable (carronades are useless - I replaced mine straight away), and although the model is advertised for beginners, I would certainly suggest from my experience, it is not!!!

 

I've not given up on my President build, it's on hold, until I have the required skillsets with rigging and fitting out. I am currently building the Caldercraft HM Mortar Vessel Convulsion, and there are 7 sets of drawings and 70+ page of instructions that cover the build, fitting out, and rigging processes in great detail. It can not be faulted.

 

President is a pretty kit, it is advertised as a "Light Frigate" suitable for beginners, but I was truely stumped and regretted buying the kit after I finished the hull build. I would suggest that if you want to build President, then take it very slow, read around, and plan your build in an order that you think is right, not the way the plans/instructions tell you to build it.

My opinion is that having been in the same boat as you (new to the hobby, and intruiged by the price and look of the kit), is that Caldercraft kit, something like HM Cutter Sherbourne, HM Yacht Chatham, HM Schooner Ballahoo, HM Schooner Pickle, or HM Mortar Vessel Convulsion would be a suitable first time build, purely on the quality of the kit, instructions, and finished product.

 

I've added a link to Cornwall Model Boats website below so you can get a feel for the Caldercraft kits. They are hugely popular on here because the kits are fantastic quality and value for money! Apart from my big ball's up by breaking the bowsprit on Convulsion, I have had no problems what so ever!

 

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/caldercraft_nelsons_navy.html

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8593-hm-mortor-vessel-convulsion-by-jonnyamy/

 

Cheers, I hope this feedback helps!

Jonny

[Dutchman]

Thanks for the advise. I bought the kit (price/picture), but I'll save it till I'm more experienced. Right now I'm working on the Swift 1805 (with practicum). And after that I'll have a go at the Lady nelson (with dvd). And after that.....who knows