Bounty by Mike Dowling - FINISHED - OcCre - 1/45

[Mike Dowling]

[fifthace]

Hiya Mike, Not sure if it is just me but I can't see any photo's...shame as I am eager to see how you are progressing on her, I'm torn between getting this version or AL's...

 

 

Scratch that...they loaded as soon as I posted lol.

 

I would definitely use fillers at the bow, there should really be some additional formers between the false keel and first frame really, quite poor of the kit for there not to be. Without fillers to shape the bow I think you would have quite a headache planking that area.

 

As for the stern, if that was a question too, again I would use some fillers there as well, maybe even in the transom area too, although you will need to read ahead and take into account anything else that may have to go in that area, depends on how the rudder is made. On my Caldercraft, the rudder goes right the way up and connects to the tiller in one section, not sure if it's the same on this version, looking at the very end of the keel is in the way I am guessing not.

 

Is it just me or does anyone else think the angle the rear of the false keel is a little steep? Again I think that might be an issue with the kit rather than anything you have done wrong.

 

Other than that, all looks great, fab job of the interior :D

Edited March 10, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

Hi fifthace, I hope you can see the pictures now. I had to do a second post.

[Mike Dowling]

^{Hi again, glad you found the pictures. I think I know what you mean - as you can see there are two big fillers for the bow section but do you think I should fill between the first and second bulkhead at the bow and the last two bulkheads before the transom?}

[fifthace]

To be honest that is down to personal preference/self-confidence in planking.

 

If it was me, I wouldn't, but as I said, it's all down to personal preference really.

[Cannon Fodder]

Re: stern, I would fill the gaps with blocks in the stern it will make it easier to plank given you have no choice but to plank twice there.

 

Re: bow. your choice is that of: following the order in the instructions or planking more like a real ship might be planked.

If you fill first you will have the challenge of planking clear to the bow of the boat which in every bounty build is probably the hardest bit

If you plank to the first bulkhead then fill flush with the planking per the instructions you avoid some of the difficulty of planking the bow much of the tapering and likely stealers and drop planks. Making the bounty bow bend in those planks is hard as well.

 

Ultimately you need to decide what you want.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Cannon Fodder

[Mike Dowling]

Hi Cannon Fodder and thanks for the post. The instructions, which seem sensible in view of the very round bow only provide filler from the false keel to the first bulkhead. Are you suggesting that I should only plank to the second bulkhead with the first layer and fill between the first and second as well bearing in mind I can only fill below the level of the second deck on the starboard side? (This side remains partially open on the finished model).

[Captain Al]

Mike, looks like you're making good progress and approaching each step with proper caution. I am working on a similar build (AL's Bounty) and have reached the point of installing the second deck. In the process of planking it I noticed that there is a square cutout just aft of the foremast. This cutout sits directly on top of a beam. It is for the windlass stanchion which (in my model) extends through the main deck and into this cutout on the second deck and rests on the beam. Problem though is that the pictures that come with the instructions do not show this cutout, leading me to think that the stanchion should just rest on the deck. But why then the cutout in the false deck? Looking at the plans (if I read them correctly) that is what they would have me do. Looks like the stanchion sits on the deck and does not insert into the planking, false deck and sit on the beam. Since I have already cutout the planking and have the hole in the deck I began to worry that the stanchion would sit too low and throw off the alignment of the pawl into the windlass. I thought I might fill the hole. But after measuring the length of the stanchion and the position of the pawl I have come to the conclusion that the cutout is proper and should be there (it will certainly add strength to the fixing of the stanchion) and that it is AL's problem in not updating their pictures and plans to include it (my kit is probably 10 years old). Now, in looking at your main deck I see that your's does not have a cutout just aft of the foremast for this stanchion. Kits are different, but I believe for authenticity they would both have the windlass in the same place. What is in store for your windlass/stanchion? Will it just sit atop the main deck?

 

I am facing a lot of fairing issues and the process of planking the hull is keeping me up at night. But I'm determined which is half the battle. I will post some more pics on my build log soon. Meanwhile, I hope I haven't injected an unneeded issue into your thinking. Keep up the good work.

[Mike Dowling]

_{HI there and many thanks for the post. Being a bit of a peasant I'm afraid I don't understand some of your nautical terms as yet! However I know on my build I have had to remove any sections of beam below cutouts. Seems like a shame when one has been so careful doing them in the first place!! I suppose it makes sense in the end. Believe me, I too am having sleepless nights worrying about the planking!! Maybe I should have chosen an easier ship for a beginner!}

_{Anyway, thanks for the comments and I will keep watching yours.}

_{All the best,}

_Mike.

[Cannon Fodder]

MD, abbreviating your name makes you a doctor!

 

Anyway, I suggest you plank according to the instructions. I mistyped and corrected my post, "first bulkhead" was what I was meaning. From what I can tell from your photos it's the solid bulkhead at the bow.

 

The goal being flush first planking and bow filler block making a very smooth surface the veneer planks can adhere to. Wood filler can help I hear.

 

I will say you have done a fine job on the innards and the building of an open side model is appealing to me. I am sure if you take the planking one step at a time I'm sure you can do it.

 

Cannon Fodder

[Mike Dowling]

Hi CF (!!) and thanks for the post. It might be cheating but I am beginning to think that the addition of a few filler blocks may be a good idea for a novice like me. The problem with the planking instructions is that they indicate doing all the flat easy pieces first and then fill in all the gaps using wedge shaped pieces. Nothing about filler planks or drop planks. Maybe I should do it that way but I know it would horrify all the really clever builders out there. I am just really anxious about spoiling what I have done so far. Perhaps I should have been a doctor instead?!

[Cannon Fodder]

Those were the same sort instructions for the jolly boat I did. It certainly minimizes the plank tapering you need to do. I didn't end up following them and tried to plank according to the shall we call it "experienced" way of doing it. It was hard. I ended up with all sorts of gaps but the model was small cheap and not overly committing.

 

You seem to have more invested here. And in the end the first planking gets covered up. You will still get some practice trying to shape the wedges to fill the gaps that will happen with the instructions. This will be good experience for plank shaping.

 

There is no cheating in modeling. Everyone seems to have there own way, preferred glue, level of detail, scale they work with, methodology. Filler blocks are a very useful technique to reinforce the bow and stern to allow for good planking it seems to me. I'm probably got to add some to my Swift. Even though I could probably get by without.

 

I can't wait to see more pictures.

 

CF

[Mike Dowling]

_{Thanks so much for that, I really appreciate it. Maybe I will just do what the instructions suggest this time and not try to be a perfectionist. After all what we want in the end is a half decent looking model that we can say we did our best with don't you think? Anyway, having done a bit more today I am in deep depression as I have managed to snap one of the pieces for the bow bulwark that has to be bent to fit. Whilst I have managed to hold it together with tape for the time being I can see that bending it properly is now going to be a major exercise. I must keep telling myself that this is a hobby and I am enjoying it!!!!}

[Bindy]

Hi Mike!

 

I know what you mean about how bad it feels when you break something, or find out you did it wrong.  However I also know how wonderful you feel when you fix it or make it even better!  You can do it!

 

I hope you have more of those wonderful feelings at success than the bad ones of things not working out.

 

Have fun!

[Captain Al]

Hey Mike, hang in there.  Like Bindy just said above, its a great feeling when you do something right and its really cool to look at.  If you haven't already, take a look at the topic "fixing mistakes" (or something just like that) which not only gives some great tips and tricks to actually remedying mistakes but also shows that even the top modelers make boo boos; and some pretty significant ones.  I share your attitude.  This is fun and we're only first timers.  Besides, I think both of us have chosen to start at the top.  These two versions of Bounty are not really for beginners.  But I concluded that with enough time, patience, research and mistakes I will come out with the pretty decent (if not perfect) model and maybe it'll be all down hill from there. 

 

Now, here's a question.  I came back here to your build to take a look at the stairwell openings you mentioned were framed.  I am definitely going to do the same.  Funny how a kit can be so detailed in one area and then leave another untouched.  Anyway, in looking at your pictures (which, btw make me say you are doing a great job so far) I see that your Bounty has two compartments on the lower deck level (my kit calls this level the holding platform) fore and aft of the holding well.  Each of these has doors which will be clearly visible from the open hull.  My kit does not have these compartments.  I only had parts to fab the holding well.  It has seemed to me that the real Bounty would have had more structure down there and that your's is more authentic.  So I am thinking now about adding those (it will take some scratch building but I have the materials) to my lower deck.  Do you know if in fact Bounty had these?  I am going to look on other builds and do some googling.  I need to decide on this before I glue on my second deck (which my kit calls the lower deck) which I thought I might do today or tomorrow.  See, this for me is the fun of it all....making decisions and devising ways of doing the construction.

 

Another question.  Regarding constructing the grates.  Did you cut all the cross pieces one by one by hand?  I did.  The instructions said to build it from full pieces and then "trim" it to the indicated sizes needed.  I thought it easier to measure, mark and clip these pieces to size before putting the waffle together.  It worked but it was time consuming and, I found out, I couldn't make all these cuts precisely the same.....pretty hard to do when .1 mm makes a difference.  If they were all perfect it would make the gluing of the frame around it much tighter.  I am going to try a new way when I do the grates for the main deck.  I'm going to bundle all the pieces of each size -- maybe tape them tightly together -- and then cut them as one on my Dremel scroll saw.  I'm just curious if there is a better way than that.

[Mike Dowling]

Well, firstly my deep depression has lifted as I managed to salvage the bow bulwark and it is gluing o the bow as I type!!!! Hooray!!!

Now, how can I help with these decks. Mine has two sort of half decks either side of what you are calling the holding well. The bow end one is practically the same shape as the second deck from the 2nd to 5th and a bit bulkhead so maybe you could use your second deck as a template. The stern end is not so easy. On my 9th bulkhead it is practically the same as the second deck but then tapers much more into the stern. Maybe you could work out the shape using a temporary batten on the inside of the hull? If it helps I could take some more pictures of mine a bit closer to show you more detail?

Regarding the grates I did make full sections which I then surface painted with PVA glue. When dry I turned them over and painted the other side. I have found that when dry they are really quite strong and cutting them to the correct size, whilst you still have to be careful, is a lot easier. Just an additional thought because on the OcCre model the crow's nest platforms (or whatever they are called?) are also fabricated from the grating so I have tried to be very careful not to waste any.

Don't know if any of that is useful. I think you are just trying to put off the planking like me!!!!

[Captain Al]

I've got my model here at the computer and comparing your lower works to mine. Since I already have beams installed and these holding platforms there is no way I can put in any kind of half deck. Unless I did it with narrow strips which I could insert sideways through the frames and under the platform. This also brought to mind the question of ballast. What was used as ballast and where did it go? More likely for my build would be those compartments on the holding platform level. Until I put down the next deck it will still be possible to build and insert them. I'm just wondering if I want to add what would probably be weeks of work to do this or just move along with the kit as is.

[Mike Dowling]

I think to be honest I would leave yours as it is. I would be too scared of spoiling what you/I have done already. I reckon they used really depressed modellers as ballast but I can't quite figure out where they put them!!

[Captain Al]

I like your sense of humor. It will serve you well I think in the days and weeks to come. My wife and I were just poring over the pictures and plans that come with the kit and its very weird. The pictures on the huge box that it all comes it has something down there, whether or not its a deck or not is hard to tell. But the instructional photos show nothing more than a fwd/aft running beam that is fixed to the inner side of frames 8 and 9 (just forward of the holding well box. The picture shows a lot of barrels and bales heaped inside, resting only on the hull planking. I suppose this beam is to hold these barrels in (but they'll be glued). And in reality, I don't think these heavy barrels would have been allowed to sit just on the planking. But the plans show nothing; neither a deck or a beam. So just like you said, why make things more complicated than they already are. I'm going to move on with the work that I have in front of me and follow the plans/instructions as they've been written. Maybe someone with more naval history can provide an answer re the ballast cause I am still curious about that. And if they actually used something like stones (which they did), it would be easy enough to throw some pebbles in there.

[fifthace]

I think you are over analysing. Plus, remember that most kits aren't built in exactly the same way as the real things. They are PoB, Plank on Bulkhead, evenly spaced bulkheads, where as the majority of tall ships were really built using PoF, Plank on Frame, and there were a lot more frames and a lot closer together, plus in most cases were, as far as I am aware, planking internally as well as externally.

 

A simple google search will easily show you the differences:

 

Plank on Bulkhead

 

Plank on Frame

 

As for the exact answer to your question, no idea on that one sorry.

Edited March 12, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

I think you are absolutely right Dominic! I am going to treat this as fun even I upset a few perfectionists along the way. It's just that sometimes a bit of help or shared experience can go a long way towards a better final result. I still want to know where on earth I start with the planking!!!!

[fifthace]

Well, rule of thumb with starting the planking, is it usually, (not always), starts level with the lowest upper deck. In the case of the Bounty, the main top deck as she is single level.

 

Start at the bow, and plank towards the stern. With the Bounty though check the plans as the planks slop up at the bow and don't simply follow the lay of the deck, they follow it towards the stern though.

 

Plank one strip on one side bow to stern, then do the same on the opposite side. And continue alternating like this. If you plank all on one side to start with, the pressure of the planks will pull the entire structure to one side, banana boat style.

 

It is a general guide though as individual ships all have slight differences in the way they should be planked.

 

 

Hope this helps ?

[butch2197]

Hi Mike, I am also a very new person to ship building I am trying to build the bounty, but from scratch, with no instructions ha.On the comment you made about the planking, I spoke to a good friend of mine who was in Merchant Navy as a Captain and as a Navigator and he told me that the pieces of planking that goes into the hull to make good, were in fact actually done which gave the planking tension and a truer fitting. hope this helps.

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks both very much. I know I will just have to bite the bullet and start. One thought though - the instructions show full length planks, at least as long as the wood supplied. From what I have read is it not better/easier to use shorter lengths and if so how long?

[fifthace]

Is the model double planked?

 

If so, use single lengths for the first planking, purely for ease, and then if you decide to you can split/stagger the 2nd planking.

 

If you decide to you may want to do some research first on how she was planked, and if she was planked using split planks, how they were staggered etc.

[Mike Dowling]

_{Yes, it is supposed to be double planked so I guess I can do what I like for the first one. I don't realistically think that there is the tiniest chance of my doing 'accurate' planking, I shall just be pleased if I get the hull covered. Re the banana boat bit, that could be tricky because most of the hull on one side doesn't get planked much because of the open view.}

_{I am thinking (not too seriously!!) about covering the hull with tissue paper and dope like I used to do with model aircraft. How's that for a bit of lateral thinking?!!!}

[Cannon Fodder]

If it feels unruly to handle the full length planks you can and should shorten them. All that matters for length is that they start and end at bulkheads to be glued down. It looks like some of the planks for the cut out side break this rule, but for good reason, to show off all your goodies on the inside.

 

Enough chit chat, I want pictures! You broke a cardinal rule! You made a mistake and did not take pictures of what went wrong nor how you fixed it!!!!!! Shame on you. We want dirty bits too. That way we learn.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Cannon Fodder

[S.Coleman]

Wow 1/45th! That going to be a monster. You almost have to erect scaffolding to work on her. Looks like you are doing a great job. Looks awesome.

[Mike Dowling]

CF, I am so very sorry not to have taken pictures of my mistake. I am pretty darn certain there are going to be a few more before I finish and I will make a special effort to preserve them on camera for your amusement. If I can, just because we are mates I will try to take a pic of my repair for you!

 

To S.Coleman (sorry to be so formal) it is indeed a monster and, whilst I do feel I have bitten off a good deal more than I can chew, I am going to enjoy doing it if it kills me!!!

[Captain Al]

Good luck Mike. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you -- but not while I'm building.  Just curious:  cover the hull in tissue paper and dope?  What kind of dope?  Don't get arrested.  Today I will glue in my lower deck.  I know I've procrastinated too long on this.  Built a cradle yesterday, something I should have done on day 1.  Pretty crude but it works.  Anyway, enough computers and now for some fun.