Bounty by Mike Dowling - FINISHED - OcCre - 1/45

[Mike Dowling]

Hi all,

I have just spent 3 days trying to make the Bounty launch with virtually no instructions. I have done my best by looking at other logs and plans so please don't be too judgemental. My filling balsa has arrived!! I have put some in and nearly finished the sanding so I am now running out of excuses for not starting the planking. I am just so scared I can see loads of lack of sleep worrying about it but, seeing as how we are supposed to admit to both our successes and mistakes I will keep you updated. Here is my work to date!!

 

 

 

 

 

[fifthace]

Launch is great, nice work my friend.

 

Infilling looks like it is going well too, should be really helpful when you get to the planking.

[Cannon Fodder]

Nice work MD!

 

It's coming along nicely.

 

I hear planky planky in the distance.

 

I would fill more at the stern all the little holes. Then use wood filler to get it baby smooth there and in the bow.

 

Are you going to plank to the first bulkhead then?! according to your instructions.

 

That is an awesome little launch there sans instructions.

 

CF

[Mike Dowling]

Do you know I really do like you guys you are so kind. And yes, I am going to be a complete wimp and plank according to the pathetically negligent and utterly useless instructions!

By the way, I will do oars and mast for the launch when I know how much wood I have left. Unlike Fifthace boat mine only gets 2 oars according to the instructions but I want the whole set!!!

[fifthace]

You might only get two oars, but seems at least you get wooden ones! I just got flat PE ones

[fifthace]

Mike, take a look at this:

 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf

Might be of some assistance.

[Captain Al]

It goes without saying Mike that now I'm hating you. You're making great progress. The filler looks nice and like fifthace said, it should help a lot. You've got all your decks laid and even had time for a launch. I barely have time for a lunch. This morning I finished sanding the lower deck and putting a second coat of urethane on it. That's that for this deck. I'm working on the stern structure. I have 3 questions for you...

1. You mentioned that you broke a piece a couple times. Was it the wood for the bow bulwark? Did you have to make that piece from one long strip and bend it to fit? Mine comes in two pre cut pieces that butt up at the front. My real question on this is: my instructions and pictures note to "leave a progressive offset." I don't know if this means overlap the end of the deck or leave a bit of deck showing (for some purpose later, perhaps stanchions). Did you have to deal with this progressive offset?

2. Your filler I know is balsa. What size did you use? Did you fill the cavity entirely, and did you use some scientific method (as described for example in one of the planking articles) to measure and cut the layers to size so they'd fit in there snugly? I've been thinking about filler but can't get my head around the techniques of doing it. Thought maybe there is a simple way of gluing in material, then just sanding the protruding amount to the hull shape.

3. I forget what the third Q is, but here's one. I still have no answer to if the hawse pipes should remain shiny brass or get weathered somehow to look like bronze with a patina. Would soaking in vinegar do anything?

 

Keep up the good work. I'll post some progress soon. Seems I have more questions than answers.

[fifthace]

Al will see if I can help...

 

1: What the heck is a "progressive offset" ???

2: for infilling with balsa: It doesn't really matter how it's done, whether a single block fitted in or several, as long as it sits proud of the frames then just sand it down flush and to the correct curve.

 

3: Brass wasn't really used for the metal work for ships, it was all ironwork, so even when a ship was new it wasn't a shiny brass colour, but a dull grey/black. Personally I always spray the brass and photo etch components of a ship, (that is designed to replicate the iron work) with a grey primer designed for car bodywork, then brush or spray black afterwards.

[Mike Dowling]

Hello all and thanks for the posts. I had already downloaded the link you gave Dom and read it several times. My problem is that I still don't really understand it all. It's like maths to me and I never was an good at those. I am going to risk doing it instruction way although starting at the top as you suggested. If I make a complete ******** of it perhaps I will be able to improve with the second go.

 

Sorry I have no idea what progressive offset is either. Sounds like a disease to me!

 

For the filler I used 5mm x 50mm thick balsa sheet. Put it in the gaps in vertical layers, used a bit of white glue just to hold it in place and together then, went outside and attacked it with sandpaper down to the level of the fairing that I had already done. The only reason I had time for launch (!!) was because I was waiting for the balsa.

 

I don't know what a hawse pipe is either so I am not a lot of use.

 

So, a bit more filling and sanding before the inevitable. The first planking layer if anyone is interested is 2 x 5 ml lime wood which so far seems nice and difficult to bend!! It is really quite tough stuff. That is partly why I will only go to the first bulkhead as I don't think wood that thick will bend that far. I wonder if I should do that at the stern as well? Any thoughts?

 

Oh the bow bulwark was in two pieces before I made it three and they were supposed to meet in the middle. Once fitted I had to trim the bit below deckline in order to fit in the supplied balsa filler for the bow. Perhaps that's what the disease is!

[fifthace]

To be honest with you Mike most of the detail in that guide I tend to ignore, especially with a double planked hull. I am not out to build museum pieces with 110% accuracy so all the measuring and calculating plank widths I don't bother with.

 

I start, unless specified otherwise. with a control strake, (the term for a bow to stern planked layer) at the level of the first topmost deck, (in the case of multiple level decks). As the false deck piece will usually already follow a slope/dip/slope contour, this ensures the planking is started with the correct gradual slopes.

 

Ok some ships are slightly different, such as the Victory where the planks and rubbing strakes follow different angles, so this is a loose rule of thumb.

I would then continue planking down towards the keel, tapering each successive plank so it isn't forced to bend laterally which would result in a stepped hull, until I reach a point where the next plank would need to sweep upwards at the bow to a point where it won't go all the way to the front. I would then switch and start planking from the keep upwards, again tapering where needed until the lower and upper planking meet at the bow, which they usually meet at the stern as well, depending on the hull type.

Then I continue planking from bottom to top, butting the planks up against the lower edges of the upper planking.

 

Don't forget, at the stern don't try and force the planks to sit right against each other, they will naturally want to lay with a triangular gap, these get filled later with "stealers".

Sometimes you will find stealers are needed at the bow as well.

One thing to note, as an exception to how to start the planking, on the Bounty the upper edge of the planking sweeps up above the level of the deck at the bow, so take a look at the plans for where that slope starts.

Hope that makes the general process a little clearer for you?

 

PS: A hawse pipe is a hole or channel through which the anchor chain/rope passes through.

Edited March 21, 2014 by fifthace

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks for that Dom, oh and by the way, thanks also for the tip about using map pins. Brilliant! Just need to get some now. What I will do when I get there is put on just one plank - which might be a control strake at the top. Take a pic and see what you say after that. OK?

 

My hawse pipe/s (thanks again) are not metal on mine. Oh no, I have to carve them and drill them all by myself! And eventually feed the rope through the insy little holes I made in the decks to the bottom of the boat where I suppose I am expected to curl them up to look neat and if someone on board put them there!

 

Just a little rant, I am enjoying it really!

[fifthace]

They are in the decks? They should be in the bulwark at the bow, take a look at my log.

 

No idea which is correct now though...

[Mike Dowling]

Firstly, yes, I have to put holes in my beautifully repaired bulwarks as well!!

 

Secondly,

 

deep breath,

 

one plank!!!!!! (sorry strake)

 

Does this look right, I spent a while making sure there is no lateral bending.

So, what next?

 

[fifthace]

What do the plans say with regard to planking? On the Bounty that plank should follow the bottom edge of the bulwark upwards towards the stern, (as it is flush with the lay of the deck), and at the bow again should follow the bottom edge of the bulwark upwards. and the top of that plank should be level with the deck amidships. Though looking at the forward bulwarks the plank should be flush with the top edge...

 

See on mine:

 

 

 

Also, the map pins, put them through the frames rather than the plank. The pin will help hold the plank in position and stop it from springing straight and the cap of the pin will hold it against the frame, and you won't be putting holes through the planks or risk splitting them.

Edited March 21, 2014 by fifthace

[Captain Al]

Well I guess I'll have to interpret "progressive offset" any way that looks logical.  Usually that takes me a couple days of looking at pictures, plans and trying to dry fit the next in line parts.  Nice pictures of your interior Mike.  What is the little electric tool over on the side?  Maybe you or Fifthace can answer this re bending the planks.  Many posts and articles discuss the technique of soaking the planks (sometimes as much as overnight) and then using heat (soldering iron, bending iron, clothes iron, all sorts of heat producing tools), bend the plank gradually into shape.  What I don't get is how to know what that shape is unless you either have built a replica of the framing itself (a jig more or less), or you bend the plank right on the model itself.  And then, where to you let this plank dry? You can't glue it on until it is dry.  I can come up with only one technique that takes all this into account; please tell me if I'm on the right track:  You soak the wood til its very bendable.  Then you bend it onto the frame wet, using the heat to encourage the bending.  You pin it in place and let it dry.  Then you remove the plank and start again, this time applying glue and pinning and clamping as you proceed.  Then you wait til that glue dries and do another plank.

 

Dom, thanks for the facts about the hawse pipes (and other metal fittings).  I thought they would have been bronze (not brass of course) and would acquire a greenish patina.  You're saying they were iron and turned black.  I hear what you're saying regarding the hawse pipes being in the bulwark.  I think they will be as well.  I just haven't reached that point.  But where the chain comes out of the deck they come from these two little brass button like fittings with the insey bitsey hole in them.

[Captain Al]

Great tip on how to use the push pins.  I wondered about that in looking at Mike's pictures.  I have also thought it might be a good idea to twist drill a pilot hole in the frame to make it easier to push in the pin.  I've tried one or two without a pilot and its a pretty hard push.

[fifthace]

Al the method I use with planking is very simple.

 

An old Nescafé jar, filled with water. I sit 8 or 10 planks in that water so I always have soaked planks ready to be shaped. As it normally takes me days to get to the planks I have in the water they are more than pliable. If it is only a shallow bend I dispense with water and just use Amati's plank bender instead.

 

It's the "chain coming out of the deck" that is confusing me. On the Caldercraft Bounty the anchor rope comes through the hawse in the bulwarks and is laid straight along the deck until it reaches the windlass and then the excess is coiled up neatly on the deck....

 

Pilots are always a good idea, especially on AL's kits, as the wood does tend to be quite hard. Same with my method of planking, may require more with you building an AL kit. I know my AL's Victory the wood for the planking was like carbon reinforced steel!

Edited March 21, 2014 by fifthace

[Cannon Fodder]

Captain AL: you are right with respect to your planking steps.

 

Firguring out the shape is the hardest part. How much tapering and where at the stern and how to trim down the plank. Especially at the beginning because you have such a blank slate. That is where the math and measuring and plank fan and alternative methods come I to play or the instructions in terms of plank layout.

Next is soaking. Hot water helps. There has been mention of adding something to the water. Sometime I leave the plank overnight soaking.

Next is pinning or clamping in place. Or using plank bender or iron. To get the plank to the shape of ship.

Let it dry. Important cause wet planks are swollen and you never want to glue a wet plank in place cause you end up with gaps.

Next is gluing and clamping. Letting it dry.

Working one side the. The other in the process. I get one plank or two in a sitting.

[Captain Al]

CF, that's probably twice the output I will get in a sitting.  I'm hoping for two, just so I can alternate sides of the ship until the starboard side needs no more planks.

[Mike Dowling]

I don't know which electric tool you mean, is it mine or in Dom's picture?

 

Anyway this plank oops sorry, Strake. What it says in my wonderful instructions is that above the level that I have put it I should infill with wedge shaped strakes until flush with the bulwarks front and rear. These will be covered with the second layer which starts at a slightly lower level than the top deck and I quote ' The first lining strip must be glued into place snug against the top of the sapele wood coloured lining, completely straight and parallel with the floor. Complete the lining until you have covered the bulwarks at the stern and bow'. This upper lining is done in lime wood veneer and is supposed to be painted in the end. The lower part is sapele veneer and will run in the same way as the first layer.

 

So, I don't know if that makes sense but it is what it says.

 

I quite understand CA your confusion about plank bending. I have read loads of different approaches as it seems have you. I have used up until now mostly on larger wood pieces than planks the 'Dowling' method. This involves soaking the piece to be bent for a while. Test it for flexibility gently by hand. If not bendy enough soak longer. Eventually the wood is supple enough to bend to shape using fingers. Then I either weigh it down and trap it between various household objects to hold it in place until dry or, apply it whilst damp to the model, glue it and wait for it to dry. The problem with ply is that it can delaminate but it has worked for me on thin wood and that is how I lined the inside of the bulwarks, (see previous pics)

 

Neither I nor my good Lady own curling tongs and I only have a teensy soldering iron. I thought I might try using my hot air paint stripper which is useless for stripping paint. I do have a manual plank bender but I have found that this does tend to 'spread' the edges of a plank and you have to be very careful not to cut right though.  Whichever way you/I/we use it is a long process. You have to wait for wet wood to dry otherwise you get shrinkage problems.

 

So my clever friends, what next?

[Mike Dowling]

Dom the bit of anchor rope coiled up neatly on the deck. On Al's and mine your coil goes down through the top and middle deck and gets coiled up neatly on the bottom deck.

[Captain Al]

Dom, I looked carefully at the pictures and here's what I can make of them (re the hawse pipes)....the anchor rode (be it all chain or chain and rope) runs through the hawse pipes in the bulwarks to the windlass.  The excess then runs down through the main and lower decks and is coiled in the bilge between the forward and aft holding platforms.  Two things seem curious to me in this.  One, I can't see the hawse pipes for the main deck (not the bulwark pipes, but the pipes for the excess to run through) and I can't locate a part for them in the parts list.  Two, I would find it strange to stow anchor rode in the bilge.  Yet this is what the picture on the box shows pretty clearly.  More on this I guess when I get there.  Right now I'm just going to  stick parts 93 ("anchor hawse pipes") in their designated holes in the lower deck. 

[Captain Al]

Mike, the tool I was referring to may just be a lamp. Its the black cord and little box at the bow end. I suppose the difference in our kits and Dom's regarding the anchor rode is that ours is open hull and therefore you can run the rode all the way down through the decks. Closed hull you gotta coil on deck.

 

What are you doing about the bright shiny finish of all these brass fittings? Are you making an attempt to age them or make them look like iron (using blackening stuff)? I'm still up in the air. May just install everything (maybe not the cannons) bright and shiny and let age weather the brass naturally. I should live long enough to see them with a nice patina.

[fifthace]

It could just be that the larger scale kits illicit more detail than the scale mine is at then.

Mike if your instructions say to use that method of planking then of course follow those. This is only the 1st planking anyway so doesn't make a massive amount of difference, although I'd be interested in how it says to plank the 2nd layer...as that method wouldn't be that attractive, not to mention totally inaccurate..........

You can see what I mean with the planks following the curve of the ship in this photo:

[Mike Dowling]

_{Dom, you are quite right. The plans look nothing like the photo of the ship. What I will try and do (never mind the copyright!) is send you a couple of pics from the wonderful instructions and see what you think from there. CA,CF and anyone out there who can help me, do feel free to join in. I am very concerned, having made the mistake before is not to laterally bend the strakes.}

 

_{CA yes, I think it is the wire for the lamp - nothing exciting! And I know I am going to historically wrong and I don't seem to have as many metal bits as you, I really do like the shiny brass bits so I may be a complete peasant and keep them shiny so there!!!}

[Captain Al]

Like Dom said, and I didn't know this, if your build is double planked, then your problem isn't til later. Mine is single planked so its got to be good on the first pass. I haven't yet figured out a fall back position to when I screw it up big time, but one thing I'm considering is copper plating below the water line. I'm also wondering what adjustments to various other parts of the ship would have to be made in order for me to double plank. Seems I'd be one layer of planking too thick for the bulwarks but otherwise can't think of a major issue.

[Mike Dowling]

Hi there, I think you should be grateful for one layer but, having said that I reckon two layers gives me the chance to cover upper the mess I make first time. Dom and I have been having an off site discussion about all this. I can't think it would make much difference if you do a second layer, the veneers are only 0.6mm ish and I think I would rather do that than copper.

[fifthace]

Nooooo you can't get away with not coppering the hull   haha

[Mike Dowling]

I am going to throw all my toys out of the pram in a minute!!! Have a heart!

[fifthace]

Nope nope nope. Stamping my feet on this one haha

 

 

ok ok will let you off...this time