Swift 1805 by giantdog - Artesania Latina - first build

[giantdog]

Thank you for holding my hand through this process guys, I'm a like a rabbit caught in a cars headlights 

 

I've printed a planking fan.

 

Question.

 

What does the 5/32" line mean?

 

I am really sorry if this is a dumb question.

[themadchemist]

I think if you measure it at that reference, you'll find its 5/32 of an inch.

 

My printers down, but I opened the pdf and set it at 100% and with a caliper it measured 5/32''  

 

 

I typically figure out what bulkhead has the longest length and from that figure how many planks it will take. I then cut the fan with that many rows, the white between the lines represents the planks, it has a V shape then. I then fold it (parallel to the 5/32" reference) so the crease matches the bulkhead length and transfer the marks to the bulkhead. Refolding for each bulkhead as necessary to match the length. Its the fastest way I've found of marking. 

I also put marks on the stem, this really helped on the dinky longboat for narrowing at the stem.

 

...and it took me a bit to figure out how the fan was used, it isn't rocket science but its a unique method.....and who hasn't asked questions around here, it's part of the process.

Edited October 23, 2014 by themadchemist

[Grimber]

hehe I don't know all that more than you,  my first wood model ship as well.  Only other wood 'model' I ever built was a small Deep V RC boat kit and that had like 25-30 parts and I painted it  5 or 6 coats of high gloss white enamel paint used on furniture.  ( never did finish that boat either )

[Grimber]

I think if you measure it at that reference, you'll find its 5/32 of an inch.

 

My printers down, but I opened the pdf and set it at 100% and with a caliper it measured 5/32''  

 

 

I typically figure out what bulkhead has the longest length and from that figure how many planks it will take. I then cut the fan with that many rows, the white between the lines represents the planks, it has a V shape then. I then fold it so the crease matches the bulkhead length and transfer the marks to the bulkhead. Refolding for each bulkhead as necessary to match the length. Its the fastest way I've found of marking. 

I also put marks on the stem, this really helped on the dinky longboat for narrowing at the stem.

 

...and it took me a bit to figure out how the fan was used, it isn't rocket science but its a unique method.....and who hasn't asked questions around here, it's part of the process.

 

what did you use to figure the curvature between marks along the plank.  It shouldn't be just a straight cut from bulkhead mark to bulkhead mark.  did you use an engineer curve to put in the curvature?

 

edited  Sorry I should have used 'french curve'  its more known by that term

Edited October 23, 2014 by Grimber

[themadchemist]

once you get the deck on, then the sheer plank, which is 3mm below the deck line. I used a full width plank on this that was spiled at the bow. then place the garboard planks (against the keel). Then figure your longest length on the bulkheads, using a string or slip of paper. Divide this longest length by the plank width and that gets the number of planks it will take.

 

That is how many rows I cut from the center of the fan. Then the folded paper fan will shape to the bulkhead. If its not long enough to bridge the gap between planks, fold farther out, too wide, fold closer in. When it fits the gap, hold it down and mark the lines. You need the garboard and sheer planks as zero points.

[adivedog]

I agree with Keith. Basically, add a plank at the top and a plank at the bottom. Then measure the middle frame and see how many mm total between and divide by 5 (mm) which is the width of the plank. You will have 8 or 9 planks, don't remember. Anyway, once you have the number of planks, you will measure each frame from bow to stern. This is where the fan comes in. Take a piece of paper or card stock and at each frame you will mark on the stock the length between those planks. Let's say at frame three, put the paper along the frame, mark where the planks that are glued at top and bottom. Then use the fan.

If you need, 8 planks, put the first mark on the middle of the fan, slide it out until the top mark reached the eighth line. Then you measure the width of one unit.  I marked the paper at each section, then put it against the frame and marked the frame.  Go to the next frame and repeat.

 

One thing I found was all the planks are not the same width, so I added a couple of planks and then remeasured and remarked again.

 

Hope I didn't muddy the water too much. I went through the same thing a little while ago. It will come pretty easily once you get started.

 

Gook Luck

[giantdog]

Thank you all for your input, I'm slightly less terrified of the planking stage (slightly).

 

In preparation I've put the false deck on to help stiffen the bulkheads, give me a better idea of the ships lines and something else that I can't quite remember at this moment (it'll come to me).

 

I steamed the deck for 20 minutes and dry fitted, leaving this to cool over night and it did seem to hold it's shape pretty well.

I've now glued it in place.

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2014 by giantdog

[giantdog]

you can never have enough rubber bands.

 

but dare I take them off is the burning question.

[giantdog]

Glue seems to be holding !!!

 

please please please glue hold 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2014 by giantdog

[Grimber]

The curvatures look good and looks like its lined up well, from the pics.  YOu may want to check your keel for straightness before moving on as the false deck dries it can pull the keel out of being straight

 

On the planking, while I didn't use the fan sheet I can give you a tip I did on my planking.  Get a caliper and messure the widths of all your planks.  Seperate into piles based on size.   Mine ranged from 4.7 to 5.2 in width.  then as you plank ( alternating port-starboard-port...) you can make sure you are using same size planks on each strake ( the row of a plank).  this will let you have an even pattern to the planking on both sides and the bow and stern ends 'should' then match up all the way through your planking.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Grimber

[adivedog]

One thing I found. you might check the distances from the center line to the outer edges on both sides. I had to sand one side down a little to make it even.

[themadchemist]

Nice job, and no you can NEVER have too many rubber bands.

 

I like the fat one's they put on veggies, like broccoli and asparagus. Its another reason to eat your veggies, FREE clamps.

 

She looks Great and has a really nice sheer-line, the deck curvature is perfect.

If your worried about the glue holding, I added extra underneath along the bulkhead/deck seams with a syringe, just a small bead then wiped with a cotton swab. Its amazing how solid adding the deck makes the structure.

 

I saw John posted while I was typing. The center line is a good idea. I added some decking to mind to get it even. either way you want symmetry.

Edited October 24, 2014 by themadchemist

[adivedog]

Also, I didn't measure the plank widths when I did my deck. It came out fine, I think there was a little difference on the outer edge, but not much. I did find the difference on the width's when I did the first planking.   I really doubt if the old boys back then measured the plank widths too much anyway.

[Grimber]

Also, I didn't measure the plank widths when I did my deck. It came out fine, I think there was a little difference on the outer edge, but not much. I did find the difference on the width's when I did the first planking.   I really doubt if the old boys back then measured the plank widths too much anyway.

 

on the 1st planking it shouldn't make much differance on the widths but on that 2nd hull planking it may effect the outcome overall of the fan method since you're assuming a plank width of 5mm for every plank when marking/measuring.    

Edited October 24, 2014 by Grimber

[giantdog]

Does anyone else's planks 'neck' at bulkhead number 6?

 

I'm trying to get a nice line for my 1st layer of planking.

[themadchemist]

By "neck" do you mean narrow?

 

If so yes. I found the planks started at the stem a little over 1/2 width, then widen to nearly full width by bulkhead 4ish, then as it passed through the rear belly (the area where the twist occurs) at about the 6th bulkhead the plank narrowed again, then widened again at the stern.

 

There was a lot of work in narrowing them and getting a tight fit, plank against plank, but I found it like mediation. I rarely got more then one plank on a day. I'd have one side wetted and shaping, clamped to the hull as a former as I narrowed and edge beveled the opposite side. 

 

My theory behind taking such time was to hopefully emit second planking in future builds and learn how they were really planked, although I used one complete strake rather then shorter planks, you will notice the deck also has no seams or butt joints either, but it does have stripes.

 

Some like the added idea/security that somehow they can cover the 1st planking up with second planking and all is well, but I see 1st planking as my chance to learn and develop my skills to plank. I never pass up an opportunity to learn something the first go round, in the manner it was actually done, but I also can't help but put my artistic side into it with things one would never see in reality.

 

Others have differing philosophy's and that the great thing about this hobby, that everyone is their own captain and can choose how they build their own boat/ship

.

The theme of my DSotM build may colour outside the lines of reality, but every mark is planned and has purpose and meaning. 

[giantdog]

OK, I think I've faired enough and I can put off the planking process long enough.

I questioned on another build log the point that:

 

2nd planking =  0.6mm

1st planking =   1.5mm

the false keel = 4mm

1st planking =   1.5mm 

2nd planking =  0.6mm

 

total =                8.2mm

 

the stern and keel pieces are only 4mm

 

So to that end I've decided to thin the false keel down to 2mm to minimise the amount of sanding I have to do to the 1st planking.

May work out, may not.
Time will tell 

 

 

Thin down below this line.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2014 by giantdog

[giantdog]

By "neck" do you mean narrow?

 

If so yes. I found the planks started at the stem a little over 1/2 width, then widen to nearly full width by bulkhead 4ish, then as it passed through the rear belly (the area where the twist occurs) at about the 6th bulkhead the plank narrowed again, then widened again at the stern.

 

There was a lot of work in narrowing them and getting a tight fit, plank against plank, but I found it like mediation. I rarely got more then one plank on a day. I'd have one side wetted and shaping, clamped to the hull as a former as I narrowed and edge beveled the opposite side. 

 

My theory behind taking such time was to hopefully emit second planking in future builds and learn how they were really planked, although I used one complete strake rather then shorter planks, you will notice the deck also has no seams or butt joints either, but it does have stripes.

 

Some like the added idea/security that somehow they can cover the 1st planking up with second planking and all is well, but I see 1st planking as my chance to learn and develop my skills to plank. I never pass up an opportunity to learn something the first go round, in the manner it was actually done, but I also can't help but put my artistic side into it with things one would never see in reality.

 

Others have differing philosophy's and that the great thing about this hobby, that everyone is their own captain and can choose how they build their own boat/ship

.

The theme of my DSotM build may colour outside the lines of reality, but every mark is planned and has purpose and meaning. 

It's hard to put into words what your thinking sometimes.

 

I mean the planks go from a gentle convex curve to a somewhat concave curve.

I noticed that on one build log there was a fair bit of filler added to this area, I've faired to try and smooth this area out.

 

I'm with you, I ideally want the 1st planking to be just as good as the 2nd. 

[themadchemist]

yes the curvature does change, hence the twist.

I think what your doing with the thinning of the skeg region is a good idea. There are places in that region that I had to thin considerably and your idea would give you more sanding room.
 
For some really good analysis on hull shape I suggest reading through Dee Dee's build of Sloop by Dee Dee - Corel - 1:25 Sloup Coquillier / Shell Fish Sloop, Shepherdess from Domrémy - Small. She does an amazing analysis of plank lay on about page three that's really worth the read through. I also recommend her bashing of the Muscongus bay lobster smack by Midwest, using Chapelle as the resource for the major overhauls.
 
link to coquillier
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6802-sloop-by-dee-dee-corel-125-sloup-coquillier-shell-fish-sloop-shepherdess-from-domrémy-small/
 
link MBLS
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4670-muscongus-bay-lobster-smack-by-dee-dee-from-midwest-to-chapelle-124-small/page-1

Now that's one gorgeous hull and an amazing build. BTW she has 2 MBLS builds.

Edited October 26, 2014 by themadchemist

[giantdog]

OK, thanks in great part to Keith for the great and patient advice I think the first penny has dropped.

Please let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

 

Dry fitting the sheer plank.

 

1...I soaked 2 planks in hot water for about 15 minutes, then using my favourite mug and a couple of spring clips I wrapped the planks around the rim (following my mentor Keith's example of rock inspired bending).

I put a clip on the end of the plank and eased the plank around the mug for just over a quarter of the circumference 12 o'clock to 4 - 5 o'clock if that makes sense.

I left the planks overnight so that they would largely hold the curve.

 

 

3...Now, I'm hoping that the next step is correct?

I took a compass and set it too 3mm (the measurement from the top of the bulkhead) + the thickness of the false deck.

Using the compass set at this measurement, I drew the point along the top of the false deck drawing a line along the top edge of the dry fitted plank.

 

 

This produced a line on the plank.

 

 

4...Using a craft knife, I whittled the plank to this line finishing by sanding. The bottom edge of the plank is untouched and simply follows the line it naturally wants to.

Refitting the plank the top edge now follows a 3mm line from the top of the bulkheads.

 

 

So my question,

Have I got this correct?

Edited October 28, 2014 by giantdog

[themadchemist]

I think it was the Bowie mug that made all the difference!  ...lets dance..

 

Perfectly Executed. By Jove I think he's got it.  And thank you for the compliments, but honestly everything I know someone else was gracious enough to teach me and I just like seeing others success.  

[Grimber]

looks very nice,  and your first strake made it to the end of the bow too, mine didn't.  If your starboard side lines up with the port, you should get some very nice lines to that planking,

 

Only point I'd like to mention, Keith does a good job explaining planking so I don't need to repeat what he says, is on beveling your planks so they fit tighter.

 

 

 

 

 

This is from this web site:  http://www.knightdreamers.com/HomePage/Ships/00.htm

 

while I didn't use the fan or stop my planks after they got smaller than 1/2 width on the first planking, I think making sure to bevel will at least get you  that nice tight fit.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Grimber

[themadchemist]

The edge beveling is a must and requires the most time to fine tune each part of every plank. You want a good contact patch all the way down so that later if you sand to deep you don't sand slits between the planks.

I'd typically start at one end and fit it inch by inch.

Sand, fit......

 

Also I used a thicker stirring stick that I squared the edge with a plane and CA'd sandpaper to the face, the edge was left bare so on the attached plank I could sand away any undercut or overcut. As the planks roll around the side they become almost shaped like a parallelogram, if you think end view.

 

If the plank already glued is undercut or overcut, it is easier to sand it square (perpendicular) letting the edge of the sanding stick ride the bulkhead and the flat of the stick sand the plank edge. using it like a sanding block, just a thin one. The sand-paperless edge rides the bulkhead and doesn't effect bulkheads. I found working both edges gave the best results. Having a perpendicular edge to work with made edge beveling the next plank easier. 

I also used this method to narrow planks in places they had went over the marked bulkheads.

 

Personally I find the slow monotony very relaxing. Its one of the reasons I stopped building the DSotM in Dec and build the longboat. I wanted to plank. I find it quite addictive. When that plank fit perfectly, it is NIRVANA.

 

Planking the canoe, taught me a lot about what NOT to do.

[giantdog]

I've only gone and done it!!!

Fitted my first two planks, I sooo hope they're right.

 

After dry fitting to ensure I'm happy and that they look pretty even on both sides I glued them in place.

Pinned and elastic banded, just to be sure they do not move

 

 

 

 

 

A bit of extra weight to to help hold the transom area in place.

 

 

oh, and a new toy too.

 

Edited October 30, 2014 by giantdog

[Grimber]

I recommend, placing your rubber bands, place them where the planks meet the bulkheads, not in between them.  the tension can bend the plank 'inwards' between the bulkheads and then when the glue dries you will create 'dips' in the curvature line of the hull. ( like you have between bulkheads 1and 2  should be moved if you can

 

otherwise, looks like you off to a good start.

[themadchemist]

Let the planking BEGIN!

 

Great Job giantdog. I always tended to use a lot of cross banded force like you did on the starboard bow, it helps pull the planks down,

By doing this while wetting and drying, it then takes less force in gluing when the plank is preshaped.

[giantdog]

I recommend, placing your rubber bands, place them where the planks meet the bulkheads, not in between them.  the tension can bend the plank 'inwards' between the bulkheads and then when the glue dries you will create 'dips' in the curvature line of the hull. ( like you have between bulkheads 1and 2  should be moved if you can

 

otherwise, looks like you off to a good start.

Thanks for the heads up, I moved the bands as you suggested and it did give a better line.

[giantdog]

It's garward time.

 

Here's what I've done.

 

Having thinned down the false keel I started work on the garward planks (garward? I think that's the right term).

 

The twist

Firstly I soaked the two planks (cut slightly over length) in hot water for about 20 minutes.

I then clamped one end in my machine vice and placed a clamp on the other end.

Rotating the clamp through 90 degrees and left to dry.

 

 

Secondly, I took a compass and set it to the distance from the underside of the sheer plank and the top of the garward plank in the area of the middle bulkhead. 

Placing the pre bent garward plank (soaked in water and bent using my fancy electric hot plank bender) in place I drew the line I wished to sand to.

The needle of the compass ran along the sheer plank and the pencil simply drew a line on the garward plank.

 

 

Sanding the plank to the pencil line and chamfering the top and bottom edge to allow close fitting to the following planks, with a lump in my throat I glued the planks in place.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by giantdog

[Grimber]

very nice work, especially on the plank twisting.

[themadchemist]

Do you want the good news or the bad news first

 

Lets get over the bad news first, as its not so bad, first it's garboard (Garward is actually a builder on MSW from the Ukraine building a Montanes) anyway, the garboard is a piece of cake compared to the plank next to it.

Not so bad, It does require quite a lot of lateral bending at the bow to get to the keel line.

 

The good news. The plank looks perfect. You nailed it on the ending spot so as not to crowd the bow or stemline.

 

Something that may help fit the second plank, once bulkheads are marked and the other side garboard is on, is to sand the garboard plank bow ends edge with a sanding block and get that as straight as possible, this will reduce the edge/lateral bending required. Once you get going, its like falling off a log, just much slower.

 

and again, she looks Great. Your time and efforts are paying dividends.