HM Bark Endeavour 1768 by bago100 - Artesania Latina - Scale 1:60 - first build

[bago100]

Thank you very much to everyone who, in response to a planking question here...

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8772-first-attempt-at-planking-need-advice/

 

...answered with lots of opinions and advice.

 

I was asked to create a build log, and this is the result of that sensible request

 

Taking aboard all your varying opinions and advices, I was unsure about what to do. After checking to see if more planks could be purchased, for better or worse as they say, to remove the offending planks. This way, hopefully I can create a much better surface upon which to attach the final planks. 

 

I think, seeing as I did not fair the frames before the first planking, one significant cause of the issues mentioned the link above was unevenness of the first planking layer. Another significant cause is inexperience but inexperience always precedes experience so there is no avoiding that!

 

With the help of a litre of Bunnings acetone, a number of planks were carefully removed and then polyfilla was used to create a rough sanding surface.

 

The photos below show how this model has progressed from my first planking post.

 

Just to recap - Before plank removal (from original post in link above)

 

After plank removal

 

 

Here you can see the abrupt fairing issue

 

 

After filler - awaiting drying and sanding

 

 

Same but showing taping over planks to be retained

 

 

It will be interesting to see if this innovation makes a difference but we will have to wait until the sanding is completed to be sure.

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice thus far.  Much appreciated.

 

Happy modeling in 2015 as well

 

Cheers

 

Graham

[bago100]

It is almost the end of January - time for an update.
 
As you can see from the previous post, I used Polyfilla to try to overcome the fact that I did not fair the bulkheads before doing the first planking, some seven or so years earlier.  (Life got in the way hence this extrordinarily long build )

 

Lesson learned = fair the bulkheads!
 
The polyfilla has now been sanded back as the new photos show. I think there is now a more rounded shape upon which to begin the second planking.
 
I've learned that broad areas can be easily sanded but when it comes to trying to sand something right beside a part that you don't wish to sand, then sanding become difficult if you don't wish to damage the unsanded part.  I suppose some might use a dremel for the fine sanding but gee, one false move and you have a repair job I recon.
 
What I did discover was that if you paint acetone on Polyfilla, you can very easily by using a sharp knife or chisel, remove very thin layers of Polyfilla right beside parts that you don't want to accidentally sand.  This allows for very fine work indeed.

 

 

With respect to the bow photo below, you will see that I have drawn a crude circle around a couple of opposing planks.  Looking at both the starboard and port plank, you will notice that they don't quite mirror each other on a horozontal plane.

 

I'm looking for opinions please.

 

Should I remove these planks and attempt to mirror both the starboard and port planks or should I leave it and make small incremental adjustments until they mirror as the planking gets redone?

 

 

I've tried by eye to keep the starboard and port sides looking exactly identical and mirrored.  Is there a better way and perhaps easier way to achieve this other than by eye?

 

Cheers as always and thanks in advance for any comments and advice,

 

Graham

 

 

[BANYAN]

Hi Graham and a belated welcome to the Endeavour build club

 

The simple answer as to redoing the planks is to ask you a question:  can you live with them?  You are bound to have some observers comment on it, but the final decisions re aesthetics is up to you.  As some form of guidance, I regret some of the minor 'boo-boos' from the earlier stages of my build that I now wish I had redone   .

 

A simple way to align your planking is to follow the general rules for spiling/planking (see articles on this site) with one part of the process being marking out the planking lines on the first layer of planking.  Use a card strip or a flexible plastic strip on which to mark out your plank widths on the strip. 

 

At this stage of my build (and I am still learning a lot) I was not spiling by the rules as such, but instead I started by determining the wale positions, laid them, then planked up and down from that by letting the planks fall naturally where possible (dry fit) and fill the gaps etc etc with stealers / drop planks, and nibbing away any overlap before gluing in place.  This means that at the bow etc, it is not a constant 5mm separation (if I recall, these are 5mm strips in this kit), so I was dry fitting the plank on one side, and after establishing where the bottom edge would fall, mark that on the hull and transfer that distance to the other side of the stem and stern whereas, in the middle it was generally an even 5mm spacing.

 

If spiling by the rules, you mark out the planking belts, determine the number of planks and divide the space at each station line by the number of planks to establish the width of the plank at that point.  This would allow you to mark out the planking lines before starting.

 

Place the strip on the stem (one side at a time from a good reference point that you can establish - perhaps the top of the wales or such, and having ensured these are level by eye during dry fitting, then use the marks on the ticker strip to transfer the locations of each joint onto your hull.  Do this in several vertical locations along the hull and when applying your planks make sure they align with the tick marks - the results should be level planking.

 

good luck

 

Pat

Edited January 28, 2015 by BANYAN

[bago100]

Thanks for your time, typing up all those notes for me Pat and of course, your kind advice and learned wisdom.

 

I had another good and better informed look at the bow problem again and after taking measurements, it seems that the problem is that either the starboard planks are curved a little too much upwards, or the port planks are curved a little too much downwards. The planks only get out of whack where the bow really begins to curve.

 

To solve this problem on this occasion, I might just trim the lowest portside plank at the bow slightly to even it up with the starboard plank.  I recon by the time the rest of the planks are done and given that this is my first build, only myself and a keen beholders eye would be able to pick the issue.

 

I have downloaded all the planking guides that I can find on this site and am now trawling through the planking forum to get a handle on how to properly progress.  Your notes will help most assuredly.

 

Thanks again

 

Graham

[rowand]

G'day Graham,

 

You've picked a corker of project as your first build as have I.  The planking drove me to frustration as did the lack of relevant instructions in the kit but with the good advice and support of the more experienced modelers on MSW, I got through that part with my mind and the model relatively intact.  The secret I found was to take my time and work slowly and call for advice when I got stuck.  There's lots of great folk on MWS with lots of good info and good ideas. Pat's comments (above) are spot on, I've found some of mistakes on my model along the way and pondered the obvious - can I put up with them?  Most of them I couldn't and re-did the work to fix them up, a couple I've left because they'll disappear as the work progresses.  My meager offering of advice is to keep reading the instructions several stages ahead of where you're working because there'll be information somewhere that is relevant to the stage you're working on.

 

Happy modeling Mate, you're going great guns!

 

Cheers,

 

Rowan D. 

[bago100]

Ok - it's been a while but work has recommended in the shipyard. All along though, I must say that it is very enjoyable reading what everyone else has to say on this forum.

Most of the old surface planks have been removed and new replacement planks have arrived since.

I'm about to attempt planking once again but a question has occurred.

I'm soaking the planks in a tube of warm water to make them very pliable because I don't have an electric plank bender.

The question is:

Should I glue them in situ while the planks are wet or should I affix the plank by means of clips, pins ect and let the plank dry before gluing?

I'm using Titebond glue. The glue instructions say to use on clean dry surfaces so I'm assuming the latter part of the question is probably the better way to go.

The glue is water cleanup.

I'll post some photos shortly from my laptop.

Thanking you for any advice

Graham

Edited June 27, 2015 by bago100

[rowand]

G'day Graham, with regard to your question above, clean and dry is the way to go.  I made up a jig to shape the planks to the curves of the hull and hold them in shape as they dried. It was a pretty rudimentary device but it worked okay, there are some pictures of the jig on my log. I only made it big enough to hold 4 planks at a time (not on purpose) so progress was pretty slow, but that suited the time I had available.  I removed the planks from the jig only when ready to use them.

 

Your kit of the Victory looks to be a pretty solid project, even your dog looked a bit intimidated by it as you un-boxed it. Nice one and good luck with the man cave.

 

Have a good one,

 

Rowan D.

[bago100]

Gidday to you also Rowan
 
Thank you for your reply.
 
I think I'll follow your advice and dry glue.  On the first planking attempt, I glued the planks while they were moist and that may have caused some of the issues that I had.
 
With regards to the Victory video - You might be confusing me with another fellow Melbournian, Paul Rowan.  To prove this, you'll find a photo of our beloved dog, Ascii attached as well. It was good of Paul to make a video though and it was interesting watching the unpacking video along with the wonderful canine expressions as well.

 

Your jig is pure genius Rowan as is your beautiful Endeavour.

 

My tools are limited and my workshop is yet to be created as they say so I'm going to try the hot water and pin method of plank bending.  I bought a length of PVC pipe and two ends to use for soaking the planks and have attached a photo of that.

 

The photos show extensive use of polyfilla and sanding to regain the proper shape after removing the old warped planks with acetone.  (These photos are shown at the beginning of this build log).

 

Thank you again for your advice Rowan

 

Stay warm and Cheers as always

 

Graham

 

 

[DaveRow]

Hi Graham,

Welcome to the Endeavour build club.

My best advice is research, research and research and don't rush into it. If it doesn't look right, then it probably isn't. Ask for help, as others have said, plenty of us about to help.

 

I gathered as many articles I could on planking, went through many of the build logs on this Web Site to see what others were doing.

Consider the final look you are wanting to attain. i.e. are going to paint the hull white or a clear finish.

 

I decided to have a timber finish, showing the traditional methods of planking a hull, thus each plank is tapered, some are dropped, stealers added in. All this explained in an article called "Simple hull planking techniques for beginners". PM me if you would like me to email it.

 

For a painted finish, not so important, and you could cut corners and taper planks.

I can only agree with Pat's comments, don't get down the track and regret that you haven't fixed some of the Boo Boos.

 

In the end up to you, and how you want it to look.

 

PS I am watching some 12 Endeavour builds on this site, gaining as much insight to how to do things.

I probably spend as much time researching and looking at other builds as actual construction on my model.

 

 

Dave R

[bago100]

Hi Dave

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

I have already downloaded an excellent Simple Planking Guide for Beginners by Bakker, Brooker, and Rogers. 

 

Is that the guide you helped write or are you offering a different article? I will PM you an email address after posting this just in case your article is different.  Thank you for your kind offer.

 

Reading the Simple Planking Guide for Beginners carefully again and then again ( It's amazing what one misses on the first reading - especially this one ) I can see that I've failed to even consider a beading line for starters.

 

I'm going to ponder over that and decide whether to remove all planks and use a dremel to attempt to create the beading line or whether to continue on regardless and just taper the thin planks. 

 

It has been eight years since this build began (life got in the way but it's OK - the stuff that got in the way has been mostly superb) and it is my first build, so I'm kind of thinking - just get the build finished, learn from the mistakes and do a better build on the next ship.

 

I think the ship will look much better painted (and hides minor mistakes as you suggest) so that might be the way to go.

 

Looks like a nicer day coming up than we've been having and I get the feeling that I'm expected to do something 'useful' outside to please the Commander in Chief who must be obeyed so there may not be any further progress today.

 

Thank you again for your kind advice Dave

 

Graham

[rowand]

G'day Graham,

You're right, I did get you mixed up with Paul, my apologies for that. Now, my confession, It's my first build and I've been at it for quite a while - I'm embarrassed to say but a bit over 5 years. I get to it when the Admiral isn't looking or when I can make time and work from my garage work bench.  The advice above is great advice and I've been following it since I learnt the hard way after I made some blunders along the way and lucky to escape in other parts of the build.  I also learnt to read the instructions several steps ahead (at least) just in case there is some useful information in there that relates to the step I'm working on. I troll the blogs to see what I can glean from the other builds, every build log I visit, I think is amazing, the skill levels, the eye for detail and the effort that's put into the respective builds is nothing less than awesome to me. But the message is always the same, take your time, research and plan..... the saving grace is that most of the time you might be able to go back and do it again if you don't think it's right. 

 

Have a great day and happy modeling,

 

Cheers,

 

Rowan D.