Attaching / bending Sails to Yardarms

[fxitgood]

Request images / pictures discussions on the different methods of attaching / bending cloth sails to wooden yardarms.

I am working on the USS CONSITUTION Construto Wooden Model Kit . My first sailing ship. Sure lots of rigging. LOL.

Thank you, Very respectfully, Rich

 

 

[Richard Griffith]

Hi Rich, or is that Darth.....

The Connie had jack stays along the top of the yards to which the sails were attached with robands (short pieces of small ropes).  Jack stays are iron rods 7/8" diameter secured along the top of the yard, slightly forward of top dead center, with eye bolts.  

 

If your model scale is small, you might elect to omit the jack stays and just tie the sails to the yards with robands.   

 

I have not looked but this site may have pictures of jack stays and even sails bent to them.   Hope this helps.         Duff

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I'm bending sails on my Heller Victory right now and you can see the process on my log, the link is in my signature. If you read it you will see at the end I am wondering about where exactly on the yard the very top of the sail would be located. I HAVE been bending the sails onto the yard with the heads of the sails on the front aspect of the yard, not hanging off the bottom. I did this without giving it conscious thought, I pictured this would be how the crew would have done it. But I saw a photo of the recent Hermione the French have just launched and you can see clearly the sails are hanging under the yards. I am not sure this one example is one to use as a yardstick though as I have noted some odd inconsistancies in Hermionie's sails, and I take into consideration she is very new.

[mtaylor]

Frankie,

 

Take Hermione with a grain of salt.  Besides being new, she's a replica and also French.  I've come far enough in my build to realize that there's many things the French did differently.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Oh I have little doubt that if you went back in time and compared British and French ships, that the sails would be bent to the yards the same way in each navy. Robands rove through grommets on the head of the sail, and the lashing to the yard, I believe would be indistinguishable from each other. WHERE on the yard the sailors held the head of the sail as they passed the robands  is what I am wondering.  

I tend to believe the sail would stay where it was lashed. The idea that the roband has to pass through the grommet multiple times suggests to me that the grommet would be within easy reach of the sailor and thus NOT hanging on the underside of the yard, where it COULD be reached but where it would make the whole operation way more difficult and time consuming.

Also I think the sail would NOT pull the head of the sail to the underside of the yard at a later date, after the force of the wind and the effect of gravity on the sail pulled on it. I think all those robands would be a very strong bond that would not permit the later shifting of the canvas.

But I could CERTAINLY be wrong and would like to see more close up photos of replicas with traditional non-jackstay lashing.

Edited February 16, 2015 by JerseyCity Frankie

[popeye2sea]

Here is what I have found out about this matter.  The change from the sail hanging from the base of the yard to hanging in front of the yard corresponded with the advent of reefing.

 

Prior to the practice of reefing sails (late 1600s) sails were bent to the yards with long robands that passed entirely around the yard. The sail hung from under the yard.  A perforated bending strip was nailed under the center portion of the yard in order to pass robands so that they were clear of all the slings and halyards.   Also linked to this time period was the fact that there were no foot ropes on the yards and the studdingsail booms were lashed abaft the top center of the yard.  Sailors straddled or laid down on the yards to furl the sails.  Sails were also furled under the yard.  An interesting note: topsails were furled around the mast because, the geometry of the sail being much broader at the base, caused a lot of material to be gather up at the center of the yard.

 

Once reefing started to come into vogue foot ropes were added to the yards.  The topsails were the first sails to take reefs.  Also at this time the studdingsail booms move towards the front of the yards to accommodate the sailors using the footropes.

 

Jackstays, initially of rope then metal, started to be used around 1800.  At this point the sail was bent to the jackstays and hung before the yard.  Shorter robands were employed, sometimes they were fixed to the head rope and sometimes they were stapled to the yard.  Also at this time sails were furled on top of the yards making a much neater and more water resistant bundle.

 

By the way, the English adopted reefing prior to the French, so Hermione may in fact be correct.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I cant imagine how it would be possible to furl a sail UNDER the yard. How would the sailors get the fabric up to the yard if they couldn't pile it up on top of the yard one bight at a time, allowong gravity to help hold it in place while they completed the work? I should point out  that I have always held the heretical opinion that there must always have been footropes going all the way back to the earliest days of square sails. I know there is as yet no documentation for this idea, but the alternative explanation, that men went out on the yard by walking on it, has never rung true to my ears. And particularly due to the issue of furling the sail. I do not think you can have your cake and eat it too when it comes to what the accepted historical record has left us. How can you be clinging to a naked yard AND furl? 

But lets assume you can, for the sake of argument. I STILL can't see the furled sail hanging UNDER the yard. What would be the advantage, and how would you manage the feat? I suppose you could furl the sail on top of the yard, and when you got it all in a nice bundle you could tie it up with yet more lines then push it off the yard. But now when you want to set it you won't be able to control it, its more likely to foul, in my opinion.

Still I will say that its possible I am wrong about this stuff. But I would like to see the argument in favor of furling Under the yard, and some explanation of how the crew could furl in bad weather with no footropes.

[popeye2sea]

I think you have to remember that those yards were not small.  A person could easily walk out on one of them. Especially since there are plenty of things to hold on to:  studdingsail booms, lifts, etc.  Next, bringing the sail up to the spar was pretty well accomplished by hauling the clews, leech lines or martinets, and bunt lines.  Then, at sea the gasket was very long and one started from the yardarm.  Passing it in spiral fashion in from the yard arm it would gradually gather up even more of the sail.  You would only have to deal with a lot of bagging to hand up at the middle of the yard.  Last, when the sail was furled under the yard there was not much concern with getting that tight roll that we are used to seeing when the sail is furled on top.  The sail hung in irregular bags and sags.  Top gallants and royals were relatively light and could be furled with only a couple of men.  Once the gasket was worked in from the yardarm on a top sail the rest could be accomplished from the top.  The courses were the only significant amount of canvas to be handed.  

 

Rolling the sail on top of the yard inside of a tight skin of canvas was an innovation that came about because with the sail hanging more loosely under the yard the wet could get into the folds, bags, and rolls of the canvas.  Jack stays were another innovation that came about because with the downward pull of the sail and its gear gaps and sags would form at the head between the bolt rope and the yard.  Most of the the rigging that seems logical to us today was the result of someone having an ah-ha moment and finding ways to make it better. Reefing sails and all the attendant changes to the yard was one of those.

Edited February 17, 2015 by popeye2sea

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

Sails furled on two ways undre the yard ( mainly when on the sea) and on yard top.

Last two foto - "mexican style" decorative furling on Cuauhtenoc

 

Tadeusz