US Brig Niagara by mikiek - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding.  Perhaps you have already attempted to drill the holes, but this is clearly a job for a pin vice drill.  I would not touch this thing with anything that is powered. I love Joel's idea of guide holes.  Easy to repair if they show up in the wrong spot. Fortunately, this is a place where the soft basswood is a good thing.

 

Looking forward to the pictures.  I am once again sailing in your wake, and may turn to this project while I wait for additional stores from the quartermaster on my ship.

 

By the way, my kit does not have anything at all that looks like a hawse pipe.

[jbshan]

The tube may be your charlie noble.

I just drilled holes.  As I'm going to leave cables in, you won't be able to see whether it's lined or not, and who's to say they were lined originally, anyway.

[mikiek]

Back to Niagara. I had tried to put everything off and focus on stropping all those blocks. Ain't hapnen.  I am hitting a wall right now. Took almost 30 minutes to do 1 hook last nite. Eyes and hands are not working together.

 

In an effort to 'walk away' I can go ahead and drill out the hawse holes. Have also started another kit. My signature has the log link.

 

I'll do the holes tonite.  "Scotty, we're going in"

 

I am still wondering what happens to the other end of the anchor cable.

[jbshan]

The inboard end of the anchor cable goes through a hole in the corner of a hatch and is coiled in the cable tier.  The end is belayed to the foot of the foremast so it doesn't run out.

[mikiek]

Thanks for that. And great answer. I happen to have a corners cut out of the grating in the forward hatch. I guess I can let it dangle into nowhere.

[6ohiocav]

Joel,

 

Since I have the same question, can I get a clarification.

 

You indicated that "The end is belayed to the foot of the foremast so it doesn't run out". Is that Above the deck, or below? If it is ABOVE, do we run the cable into the hatch, and then back out to belay to the mast? That then begs the question of how we should belay it (what type of knot). Obviously, if it is below, then we simply dump the cable into the hatch.

 

Also, on the historic ship, wouldn't the cable be attached to its own bit below deck, and wouldn't there be a capstan or other device in the bow below deck (or above) to haul it?

 

Mike,

 

What size rope are you using for the cable? Is it a kit supplied product.  I don't believe I have a thick enough black rope from the kit to accomplish this.

[mikiek]

Why would you drill holes in a perfectly good hull? Hawse holes are finished as is the anchor assembly.

 

Finding the proper location for these holes - both inboard and out - was not too difficult. Once again, the dividers were a big help. I just stretched them out on the plans between the hole and bottom fore corner of the foremost gun port. Then moved that to the hull. Worked out OK.

 

Next following Joel's advice, I drilled starter holes in the inner and outer bulwark - being careful not to go any further than the planking. I started with a #61 bit in the pin vise and gradually increased bit size about 1/32" each time. The idea is that eventually you should see the light from the hole on the other side. This did happen but only after the 4th increase of the bit size. At this point I could drill from one side all the way thru. The plans say the final hole should be 1/8" but that bit did not fit in a pin vise so I stopped at 7/64". Close enough I think.

 

A few of the particulars. The inner hole was started in the bulwark about 3/32" above the waterway. The outer hole was started at the joint between the lower gunwale plank and the first hull plank. The drilling angle surprised me a bit - I was drilling almost straight down and a little outward. If 90 degrees is straight down then probably 75-80 degrees. Try as I might, it was purely a guess at first. The inclination was to go more horizontal, but that was wrong. This was made more difficult because there was material between the inner and outer planks so I had to drill thru that without going thru the planks on the opposite side. The final hole is much more vertical than horizontal.

 

The chafing blocks on the waterway started from a 1/8"x3/32" strip. It needed some shaping in several directions, most notably the side that faces the bulwark needs to be angled to fit the angle of the bulwark.

 

A last observation, if I had it to do again I probably would have used a variable speed drill instead of the pin vise. I suspect the drilling surface was hardened by all the primer and paint layers. There was some chipping damage to this right at the edges of the hole. Turning the pin vise by hand seemed to grind thru the paint rather than cut thru. Of course it could have been a dull bit. I think also some masking tape placed over the hole site would be a good idea.

 

Well it's done, I'm still thinking about some sort of fitting to go over the outside hole. To me it looks odd having the anchor cable coming out from the wood. However I have no idea what would be appropriate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cobra1951]

Well it's done, I'm still thinking about some sort of fitting to go over the outside hole. To me it looks odd having the anchor cable coming out from the wood. However I have no idea what would be appropriate.

 

 

 

Try these Mike . Available on your side of the pond too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eyelet-with-Washer-Leather-Craft-Repair-Grommet-3mm-4mm-5mm-6mm-8mm-10mm-/271846926634

Edited July 13, 2016 by Cobr@

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

Looks great.  Thanks for the tutorial. Once again, your trials are my tribulations.

 

In answer to your last question, I believe the plans call for an extra short plank that is attached to the outside hull for the hawse hole.  I am not at the workshop, or I would shoot you an image.

 

What size rope are you using for the cable?

[mikiek]

Try these Mike . Available on your side of the pond too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eyelet-with-Washer-Leather-Craft-Repair-Grommet-3mm-4mm-5mm-6mm-8mm-10mm-/271846926634

Cobr@  -  have you used these? The concern I have is while my actual hole is round, the hole "surface" or "edge" is more of an oval due to the way the hole exits the hull.

[mikiek]

Darrell - the cable is .045.

 

Maybe I missed what you are referring to on the plans. I like what Cobr@ is suggesting, I just wonder how it might fit because the surface where the hole exits is not perpendicular to the hole.

[6ohiocav]

Mike,

 

I guess it is not real clear, but here is the portion of the plan I was thinking of. This is put into perspective when you see pictures of the actual ship. I am sending a few courtesy of our friend  John Texxn5.

 

I posted a practicum of how I stropped my 180 blocks. It might help some.

 

Happy building

[cobra1951]

Hi Mike. I've not used them myself I just knew of their existence. They're the same thing used to make eyelets for the laces in shoes. You could also try small rubber grommets as they should conform to the shape of your hole.

[donrobinson]

Hi Mike, here is one being used on my Mayflower, 1/8" bought at Michaels

 

[mikiek]

Bob, Don - the look of those eyelets is exactly what I am looking for. I'm afraid there may be a problem with the angle of my hawse hole "shaft" and the hull surface.

 

Rightly or wrongly, at the hull the hole goes up at about 80 degree angle. So I would need to bend the eyelet. Or I suppose another option would be to cut off everything behind the circular opening of the eyelet and just glue that.

[cobra1951]

Option 2 sounds good, no hull damage that way

[mikiek]

Right Bob - I'm looking around the house for something before I order something.  Wish I was a little better at metalworking. Couldn't be that hard to make something

[cobra1951]

Brass wire made into a ring the correct size and slightly flattened then blackened by your preferred method then glued over the hole

Not as good as a ready made one but if done right it will pass muster

Edited July 14, 2016 by Cobr@

[mikiek]

That is actually the more flexible approach. Because if I look at the hole or really the edge of the hole at the hull, it will need to be an oval shape, not a round one.

 

Besides, I feel like beating on something

[donrobinson]

One could easily make something from a wooden dowel. Drill hole down centre, shape then cut off to proper thickness. Here is one I just made from 5 mm walnut dowel and is 1 mm thick. Hole is off centre a little as I held drill bit with my fingers, too lazy to go to garage for proper tool . It took just minutes to make

 

 

 This walnut dowel if using softwood dowel I would soak it in ca first

[mikiek]

Nice idea Don. If I cut the dowel at an angle I will get the oval shape I need.

[mikiek]

Search long enough and ye shall discover. Probably a newbie excitation - frapping.  That is how I will be dealing with the excess rope on the gun tackles. I've seen the pix but didn't know the term for it.

[jbshan]

Search long enough and ye shall discover. Probably a newbie excitation - frapping.  That is how I will be dealing with the excess rope on the gun tackles. I've seen the pix but didn't know the term for it.

Careful, Mike.  It may be addictive.

Yes, if you cut a cylinder on an angle, you get an oval hole.  Here you have compound angles.  Make 'em long and trim to fit.

Mine look a little rough, too.  I probably would try to chamfer the edges with a bit or other grinding thingy turned backwards in my pinvise.  Just be careful about it grabbing the paint and pulling.

[mikiek]

I probably would try to chamfer the edges with a bit or other grinding thingy turned backwards in my pinvise.

 

Maybe like this?

 

 

 

I took a stab at making some rings or chafe guards with some wire. Wrapped it around the 7/64" bit, hard soldered the end, stretched it just a tad to make an oval and then filed for a while. Ended up with these.

 

 

Will probably change color, just wanted to see what copper colored paint looked like. But then I had the realization, if I blacken or paint them Dark Iron (my go to cast iron color) it will just about blend in with the hull.

[GuntherMT]

I hate to sound wishy washy but I have already changed once. The .008 rope was too thin to do anything with all the extra - so I rule that out. The next size up rope - .012 - just doesn't fit in the 3/32 blocks. So 1/8 is the only choice. Even that rope didn't look all that good when the extra was wound up. So .018, which also fits in the 1/8 block looks to be the best so far.

 

I had one of each size laid out and tried to shoot a pic but it really doesn't show the difference.

 

The .018 rope with 1/8 blocks are what I am leaning towards. You have some options with the extra rope and they are still small enough so it doesn't get crowded.

 

I did try a 5/32 block and it is starting to look too big. The only thing I didn't try was the next biggest rope .025 in the 1/8 block.

 

None of those 3 look bad, but the .018 rope will look better coiled or wound up between the blocks (like in Joel's pic).  The .018 dictates a 1/8 block.

 

Vague enough?

 

I know this is from way back Mike (I've been way behind on build logs lately), but I would not let the rope dictate the size of the block, rather go with what looks right, and drill out the blocks as needed.

 

If you look at my rigged cannon, every single block in that had to be drilled to allow the rope to fit.  For that matter, every single block in my rigging was also drilled out.  By the nature of how these little scale blocks are created, the provided holes are simply not large enough if you wish to keep the blocks in scale, and use rope larger than 'very small'.  I don't know for sure, but my guess is that this is intentional to keep the blocks stronger and allow people to enlarge them if needed without making the unused parts of the blocks look goofy with overly large holes.

[GuntherMT]

For reference, here is a post showing the rigged cannons on deck:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8085-armed-virginia-sloop-by-gunthermt-finished-model-shipways-scale-148/?p=328885

 

And here is the Syren stuff I used - Syren 5/32" Pearwood single & double blocks, Syren 3mm hooks, some generic tan thread I found that is very thin for seizing, .008" Syren brown rope for the stropping, and .012" Syren tan rope for the tackle line.

[mikiek]

I know this is from way back Mike (I've been way behind on build logs lately), but I would not let the rope dictate the size of the block, rather go with what looks right, and drill out the blocks as needed.

 

If you look at my rigged cannon, every single block in that had to be drilled to allow the rope to fit.  For that matter, every single block in my rigging was also drilled out.  By the nature of how these little scale blocks are created, the provided holes are simply not large enough if you wish to keep the blocks in scale, and use rope larger than 'very small'.  I don't know for sure, but my guess is that this is intentional to keep the blocks stronger and allow people to enlarge them if needed without making the unused parts of the blocks look goofy with overly large holes.

 

Funny you should bring this up Brian. Darrell just pointed out in his Niagara log that the plans call for 1/8" blocks. Based on some suggestions, I was going to use 3/32". Never really cared for them but didn't want to get out of scale either. You have no idea how many times I looked at the carronade detail and didn't notice that 1/8" was explicitly called for. When I built the mock up gun station I tried 3/32, 1/8 and 5/32 blocks. Personally I thought 1/8 looked the best. Shoulda gone with my gut.

 

As I have only made about 20 of the 3/32" block/hook assemblies so far, I will be switching to 1/8 single and 1/8 double for the gun tackle.

[jbshan]

That's the type of burr I was thinking of, Mike.  Use it like a countersink, just to knock the roughness off.  That'll help with whatever else you do around the hole, too.

[mikiek]

I have begun re-work on carronade rigging tackles using the 1/8" single and double blocks. Besides being what the plans call for, they just look better and are slightly easier to work with. Will most likely still use .012 line. I'm re-drilling the holes in the blocks and stropping 3mm hooks. Got a long way to go. I hope when general rigging starts, I can use all the 3/32" blocks that have hooks stropped to  them.

 

Having the second project going on is sort of a mixed blessing. A diversion is nice but I'm find it too easy to put away the carronade tackle and work on the other build. Not enough self-discipline.

[mikiek]

Regarding the extra rope that will occur with the gun tackles, I will be frapping that between the blocks - I just learned that term. I found a thread here on MSW describing a "zip frapping" technique. I may try this or just wrap the line by hand.

 

What I thought was interesting in the zip method was using wire loops to wrap the line around and then pulling the line to be frapped thru the zip frap using the loops.