James78

Hi. I'm currently building the Bluenose myself and using Bob's practicum. I think you were using it too. I'm soon to be starting the rigging but I notice from the practicum, Bob doesn't do all the lines. I haven't started yet but it's my first ship and I'm trying to get in as much detail as possible. I've been following your build and it's helped me so much with small detail that's hard to make out on the plans. I want to replicate the rigging as much as I can. Bobs practicum has helped me so much but I'm the kind of person who wants as much detail in as I can. Any advice? Your brass bits are amazing. I won't be replicating those like you have but I'm doing my best. Just a little worried about all the rigging to do and that I'll leave out stuff. Not sure if I'm going to ad sails but I at least want the rigging done properly. Thanks in advance. 

12 hours ago, lmagna said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elmers-X-Acto-8oz-White-Multicoloured-8-25x8-25x8-25/dp/B00JKAZYIO/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=elmers%2Fx-acto+elmer's+colour+change+wood+filler&qid=1567627680&s=kitchen&sr=1-3

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elmers-X-Acto-E915-Multicolour-2-5x2-5x2-75/dp/B00IZOIWEO/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=elmers%2Fx-acto+elmer's+colour+change+wood+filler&qid=1567627852&s=kitchen&sr=1-1-spell

 

Thanks 

Some progress pics after painting the hull. Never painted a surface with 3 different colours so that was a bit challenging. Turned out nice though. I just drilled the scuppers. Too hard to make the proper shape so I'll leave as is. 

Hi guys. Took a few weeks off from doing the ship. I'm now onto painting the hull but I'm a bit confused as to how to mark the water line where the white strip is. Can anyone who built the model give me some tips on painting the hull please. Thanks. 

Thanks Bob. I appreciate that. Just a couple of questions on what u said. What's different on the plans to the practicum on the painting and deck furniture as I'll be doing those next. I'll look at the plans myself but I just find them so hard to understand from what I've read so far. And on the scuppers... Bob didn't do them himself. I tried to do them but the holes never looked the same if u get me. Very hard to get them all even. I even tried making them bigger but when drilling from the inside out, some of the filler kept breaking off and make them look even worse so I just filled them in and painted the bulwarks white as u can see. What wat did u do them? 

Few more progress pics. Painting the false timbers and waterways was straight forward. Adding the caprail at the stern was grand but the two small bits of wood under it didn't fit properly so I had to redo some of that piece of wood as you can see in the pictures. The rest of the rails were fine. Just need to sand the stern a bit before I start painting the hull. 

4 hours ago, Tector said:

Great work so far; I think your work on your deck in particular is lovely. There is a curve to the stern, it's rounded on the top (or at least that's how I have interpreted the plans).

 

And I would broadly agree with others who have expressed that the real instructions in a MS kit are the plans-- the main exception being Chuck Passaro's tutorial in the longboat kit, which was very rich with information (and which I kept).

Thanks Tector. Yeah I added a slight curve after. I just find the instructions for a beginner to be very hard to understand. Without the practicum, there's no way I could have done it so far. Maybe once I get my first build out of the way, I'll understand it better. 

Hi guys. Just a couple of photos of the deck after a couple of coats of poly and sanding. Great shine off it in the light. Was on holidays the last week so hopefully get stuck back into it this week. 

Hi guys. A few more pics of the build. I'm not one for explaining what I'm doing in each picture but any questions, I'll answer. Still some work to do on the stern. Think there's a slight curve in, so I'll either leave it or sand it a bit to create a curve, but overall so far, I'm happy with it. 

30 minutes ago, vaddoc said:

I used trade wood filler once, the equivalent of ronseal. It was a disaster, it was rock hard, impossible to sand, risked destroying the hull. I now use only Elmers which is ideal for modelling

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elmers-X-Acto-16oz-White-Multicoloured-9-65x9-65x10-79/dp/B00JKB2GP2?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duc08-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00JKB2GP2

 

Many ways to skin a cat. Test on scrap wood, learn how the various products behave and see what works for you. 

It is rock hard but the hull turned out nice. I'd use it again as I found sanding it with 80grit did the job. Products like Elmers and minwax only to be got in the states which is a balls but I'm sure other products do much the same job. It is my first ship kit so it's all a learning curve for me. Got great support from this forum so thanks everyone 👍👍

3 minutes ago, Griphos said:

I'm not familiar with that brand.  A quick google and it appears to remain flexible (doesn't shrink or crack), so it may have some acrylic or other flex agent in it already.  It does say you can nail into it, so I suppose it hardens somewhat (although I doubt that it will hold a nail for any length of time).  At any rate, it also says you can paint directly on it.  And it supposedly takes varnish as well.  

 

I suspect you have a fairly thin layer of it over most of the surface.  I'd still try the sample pieces first, since we don't really know what sort of material the filler is, or its chemical makeup, and see how it responds to the various treatments.  

It's very hard and shiny too after sanding as u can see in picture attached. Not sure if all fillers look that way. I literally covered the whole hull and sanded till I got it smooth so it's thin in places but thicker in other areas. 

56 minutes ago, Griphos said:

You may have been advised to use poly, or some sealer, in order to “harden” and seal the filler, since there does appear to be more filler than wood that is exposed. That’s not bad advice, depending on what filler you used. Some fillers harden well. Some stay more grainy and it is possible to scratch or dent them more easily than the wood.

 

Shellac can provide a hardened surface to the filler to apply paint to. It was used to create the hard shell on M&M candy originally, which is why they would not “melt in your hand” (I have no idea if it is still what is used). It’s totally natural and fully edible. The person probably suggested poly because it may soak into the filler to some degree (since it is an oil) and harden, providing a better or more durable surface to paint and handle.  Shellac will provide a surface shell as well, but won’t soak in. And a single thin coat won’t build much of a shell. Enough for paint to adhere well, however. And multiple layers of paint will be both flexible and protective. I’ve not used MS paints, and don’t know who makes them, so can’t advise about them. I’m sure others here have. 

 

Sorry if all all of this is confusing. Totally understandable. Finishing is a complex matter, and although there are basic fundamentals, there’s no easy one-step fits all situations process. But at our scale with our materials, it tends to usually work out just fine rather than not. 

 

The key factor in your situation is the filler. I think most of us have been giving advice under the assumption that you are wanting to seal natural wood. Some fillers are made to be painted and can be painted directly with good results. In a sense, such fillers perform both a sealing and priming role already. 

 

What filler did you use?  Is it a hard surface?  Does handling it create any dust or leave residue on your hands?  You’ll want to make sure it’s clean before any finish. So a light sanding with 320 or 400 grit paper will present a fresh, clean surface for the finish to adhere well. I don’t know that you should use mineral spirits to clean, since that may react with the filler and perhaps soften it.

 

I'd still suggest making a few samples of glued planks or some solid sheet and apply your filler on top and let it fully harden and dry. Then apply shellac to one, and paint; prime another and paint, and just paint the third.  You’ll see what gives the best result in your situation that way. The likelihood is that all three will be very similar.

 

As for building multiple thin coats of the model paint, you shouldn’t need to sand between coats, particularly if you thin the paint so it flows well, or it comes that way, like Vallejo and Polly Scale paints. If you are airbrushing, and have thinned the paint enough to flow well through the airbrush, then no sanding will be necessary. Acrylic paint dries fast, particularly through an airbrush, and that brand may need retarder added so that it airbrushes well. Some brands don’t.  I’d just use brushes to paint the hull myself.  

 

 

Thanks you again for a great reply. The filler I used is ronseal multipurpose wood filler for general wood repairs. 

Thanks very much lads. I think I just over think things. I was the same with the planking. I ended up doing a good job in the end. I think I'll just go with the shellac to seal it and prime and paint it then. Not used to painting at all. If I'm to do several light coats, what grit sandpaper will I do between coats? Thanks again. 

8 minutes ago, James78 said:

Thanks for your reply. I was advised to seal it with poly. Got myself in a twist then looking up different sealers and using acrylic over poly. Everyone seems to be right but no two answers are the same so I just got confused. The paint I'm using or thinking of using is the paint I got from model shipways. I bought the paint set to suit the bluenose. 

As u can see, the hull is almost all covered with fillers. Don't know if that makes any difference? 

1 hour ago, Griphos said:

Shellac is an ideal sanding sealer. Hard to mess up. 

 

Polyurethane and polyurethane varnish are the same thing. 

 

You can can paint over properly applied poly just fine. Modern, good acrylics adhere very well to clean surfaces.  As a sanding sealer, you want to thin the poly by half at least and put on a very thin coat. You wipe it on and then wipe off the excess right away. It will penetrate the wood and not leave any real surface film. You do want to let it fully cure. A thin penetrating coat will cure in most climate conditions within 48 hours, but this is not guaranteed.  Fully cured, poly provides a hard durable seal.

 

I’m not sure why that is needed, though. Why are you wanting to “seal” the wood with a clear coat before painting?  Did you read that you should somewhere?  As you say, you can just sand and paint.  Wipe the sanded surface with mineral spirits. A tack cloth will not get all the dust. 

 

Again, the paint itself can be used as a primer/sealer. I don’t seal surfaces I paint, and don’t usually use primers. A thin first coat does the job. Always build paint in thin coats. Don’t try to make it opaque in one go. Multiple thin coats of a good acrylic, like Vallejo or Polly Scale, will leave a beautiful and very durable finish. 

 

If you want to seal first, shellac is best. Most hardware stores sell a “sanding sealer” that is shellac. Most sell Bullseye here in the States, which is a decent pre-made shellac. I always use blonde or super blonde flakes and make the cut I want myself with denatured alcohol.  But I usually use shellac as a clear finish for natural wood, not as a sealer.  Blonde if I don’t want to darken the wood tone, and darker flakes if I do. But several coats of shellac will leave a high sheen. That’s where a wipe on poly can be nice. Poly can be obtained with additives that dull the sheen to a satin finish, which works well for decks, etc. 

 

I’d just sand and wipe with mineral spirits and start applying thin coats of paint. But I suggest that you make a sample of some planks glued together and test your paint and technique with that first. Don’t start painting the hull until you can paint a sample in a way that looks very good to you. What paint are you going to use?  That’s the more important question not all paint is equal. 

 

 

Thanks for your reply. I was advised to seal it with poly. Got myself in a twist then looking up different sealers and using acrylic over poly. Everyone seems to be right but no two answers are the same so I just got confused. The paint I'm using or thinking of using is the paint I got from model shipways. I bought the paint set to suit the bluenose. 

1 hour ago, wefalck said:

Just use shellac. One should be able to get it everywhere. It's a traditional natural product and compatible with acrylics.

Thanks for that. 

Guys just on the polyurethane. I can't get it in Ireland. The states seem to be the only place and it's expensive. I've seen videos of lads making their own with polyurethane and spirits. Went tí my local hardware and all they have is polyurethane varnish. Is this the same thing as just polyurethane? And why do people use this or other stuff to seal the hull? Can I not just sand it and prime it and then paint it? First timer so sry for all the questions. I just don't want to mess the paint job up. 

6 hours ago, DBorgens said:

James,

Looks good and you did a nice job on the deck. I used Bob’s practicum through most of the deck furniture. I thought his masting and rigging were a bit weak. I used logs in this forum, asked questions and got great help.

 

Dave B

Thank you. Just a question on the hull prep for painting. Did you use wipeon poly to seal the hull or something else? I can't get it here in Ireland. And what did u use on the decking? Thanks again. 

Thanks wefalck. I havnt done anything yet. I got a white primer with the paints. I have the hull really smooth and ready for painting when the time comes. I was just told to put a coat of polyurethane on it first to seal it before painting. Is it needed or will an acrylic primer do? I just don't want to mess it up. 

That's what I was confused about

Using acrylic over oil. I don't know much about painting but I think I've read that somewhere before. But Griphos says it's ok, so I'm just puzzled now! Do I really need to use poly on the hull or would primer be enough? 

Thank you both for your replies. It's my first ship to build and I've no clue about using polyurethane. I'll get some poly and mix it myself so. Just on the deck as I'm finished it too, does the poly give a nice stain or is there a load of different shades? And a bit of advice on sanding between coats please. I'm building the bluenose. I have a build log up on this site. Thanks again. 

Hi. I've finished planking a Hull and I've put wood filler on it and sanded it down to a smooth finish. Just not sure about sealing it before painting. Was told to use an oil based polyurethane. Don't know much about painting, so do I just use a poly varnish? Can't get wipeon poly anywhere. It'll be painted later with acrylic paint. Any help appreciated. 

Aft deck completed. Alot tougher than the foredeck. That nibbing is so frustrating at times! 

Thanks guys. Yorky you should look up lauck street shipyard and have a chat to Bob through email. Seen as it's your first time too, I'd strongly advise you to maybe buy his practicum. They're well worth the money. By all means do it by yourself either, but he does simplify things so much better which makes it alot easier to do. Don't know why manufacturers can't just give simple instructions and drawings instead of plans full to the neck with small sketches on top of one another! Maybe I'll understand more when I've one build under my belt. Here's a few of the aft deck I'm currently working on. It's a bit tougher with all the tapering involved. 

Hi guys. I put a post up a few months ago looking for advice on what my first model ship should be. After doing some research and coming across Lauck street shipyard and chatting to Bob Hunt, I decided to go with the bluenose. Reason for this is after chatting with Bob and him explaining about his practicums, I couldn't pass up this opportunity as I failed at building a ship years ago and didn't want to go through that again! I bought his beginners course which is fantastic. I've a long way to go yet, but his instructions and photos are so much easier to follow than the kits instructions, which I think are so damn hard for any beginner to comprehend. Model expo do say "previous experience helpful" or something like that. To me, that's an understatement. If it wasn't for bobs course, I don't think I could even attempt to do it. I'm sure there are people here who have built it just by the kits instructions and fair play to you, but me being a first timer, I find them very hard to understand. I did build 2 other kits from expo, the Constoga Wagon which was a lovely build and the Wright Flyer which was very challenging, but lovely when finished. Anyway, I'll put up photos of my progress so far. I did make a mistake with the planking. I didn't taper the planks at the bow which meant my planks bowed alot in the middle and the gap at the bow closed alot quicker the the middle and stern which meant me closing the gap with bits and pieces of wood. I showed Bob and he explained about the tapering and advised me to take the planks off and redo it, because there was an unnatural bend in the planks and even though the hull was being painted, he said over time the planks might lift off the bulkheads due to the forse they were under. So I reordered more planks from expo, which I was delighted with them for sending me them and I replanked the hull. Well most of it. You'll see the difference in the colour of the planks where I redone them. I was able to run all the planks the full length of the hull. I have a build log in bobs site but it's for paying customers only. So I said I'd post here as well and see what others think. Here's my progress so far. Sry for the long text. My photos didn't come up in order as I posted them so apologies for that. Not sure if I can put them in order. If I can, can someone please advise. Thanks.