Marcus.K.

Ladies, Sirs, mates and pals,
 
I need your advice.
 
I just found something strange in John Lords Section Cut drawing 35208 where he is showing his research results from Humphrey-Papers concering Old Ironsides original layout. I guess it is to be viewed with a certain .. "sceptsism" since Lord did not have Internet or fellow forum colleauges to get advice from. And: it may be a drawing of a set of drawings- in which here missing information may be shown. What I for example noticed as missing information here: Lord refered to the demand of white oak planks 6 feet from the side for the Gun Deck - but did not advice the 5 feed white oak on upper deck - which Humphrey clearly did.
 
But my question for you experts: do you know any evindence for a raised mid section of the decks - in between the hatches - as Lord is showing here? This "white oak" which seem to run in between the hatches - and having a visible step vs. the white oak planks (interlocked?) "beside the hatches" ). It seems to be 6" while that "third straks" along the hatch seems to be described as 5 1/2" - but lowered into the beams.. and the yellow pine planks have a thickness of about 3 1/2" .. making that step 2 1/2" thick. That´s more than 6 cm !
 
I would think that stronger planks along the mid of a ships deck would help to increase stiffness in general - if there weren´t those hatches, which do "cut" the strengthening feature along the ships lengthwise axis. We know that Humphreys designed "interlocked thick strakes" .. and Lord shows them - one on Gun Deck and at least one in Berthdeck. There are white oak strakes along the hatches - which could be interlocked strakes too - but that is not shown explicitly in the drawing.
Source of this section cut: Alexander Mahoun´s "USS Constitution and other historic ships" - but also being part of John Lords 1926-31 restauration plans.
 
But again my main question: are there any other sources or evidence for a step on decks in that mid section - in the area of hatches? Isn´t that an obstacle for the crew - if you have to move a gun from one to the other side - if you have to run across the decks? Or is this just was Lord was thinking it should be?
What do you think?
 
And .. since you are looking: what does he show here in the center of the ship in Berth deck level: that "thick stuff" 6" ?? 10"? .. is this a 6" x 10"? What would that be? There is a dotted line - but what would that be??

Ladies, Sirs, mates and pals,
 
I need your advice.
 
I just found something strange in John Lords Section Cut drawing 35208 where he is showing his research results from Humphrey-Papers concering Old Ironsides original layout. I guess it is to be viewed with a certain .. "sceptsism" since Lord did not have Internet or fellow forum colleauges to get advice from. And: it may be a drawing of a set of drawings- in which here missing information may be shown. What I for example noticed as missing information here: Lord refered to the demand of white oak planks 6 feet from the side for the Gun Deck - but did not advice the 5 feed white oak on upper deck - which Humphrey clearly did.
 
But my question for you experts: do you know any evindence for a raised mid section of the decks - in between the hatches - as Lord is showing here? This "white oak" which seem to run in between the hatches - and having a visible step vs. the white oak planks (interlocked?) "beside the hatches" ). It seems to be 6" while that "third straks" along the hatch seems to be described as 5 1/2" - but lowered into the beams.. and the yellow pine planks have a thickness of about 3 1/2" .. making that step 2 1/2" thick. That´s more than 6 cm !
 
I would think that stronger planks along the mid of a ships deck would help to increase stiffness in general - if there weren´t those hatches, which do "cut" the strengthening feature along the ships lengthwise axis. We know that Humphreys designed "interlocked thick strakes" .. and Lord shows them - one on Gun Deck and at least one in Berthdeck. There are white oak strakes along the hatches - which could be interlocked strakes too - but that is not shown explicitly in the drawing.
Source of this section cut: Alexander Mahoun´s "USS Constitution and other historic ships" - but also being part of John Lords 1926-31 restauration plans.
 
But again my main question: are there any other sources or evidence for a step on decks in that mid section - in the area of hatches? Isn´t that an obstacle for the crew - if you have to move a gun from one to the other side - if you have to run across the decks? Or is this just was Lord was thinking it should be?
What do you think?
 
And .. since you are looking: what does he show here in the center of the ship in Berth deck level: that "thick stuff" 6" ?? 10"? .. is this a 6" x 10"? What would that be? There is a dotted line - but what would that be??

Good Evening Markus;
 
Your question touches on several separate topics; not being knowledgeable concerning American ships I cannot perhaps answer with full authority, but I can tell you the equivalent English practice.
 
Firstly, all timber used in ship-building was classified in various categories, according to its size and intended use. For planking, this comprised 'board', 'plank' & 'thick stuff'. Board was around 1" thick, and was used for bulkheads and partitions. Plank was up to 4 or 5" thick, and was used for most of the hull covering, in and out. Thick stuff was used where extra strength was needed, and was up to around 9" thick. Generally, anything over this thickness was only used (in larger ships) for the keel and related pieces, along with deck beams. 
 
Compass timber was anything curved, the main use of which was for forming the curves of the frames.
 
The thicker strakes of deck planking, which are flush with the main deck coverings, but are let down into the top of the deck beams, are known as 'binding strakes', and their purpose was to stiffen the ship's structure. They were also often used to fix the ring-bolts for the train-tackles for the ordnance. 
 
Lord's survey is obviously a very thorough one, and much attention has been paid to detail. I would be very dubious that he shows anything that was not there when he carried out his work. 
 
In the 17th century, the central portion of the deck was normally raised above the planking outside this strip, and was delineated by timbers known as 'long carlings'. See photograph below from a model of the 'Boyne'. 
 

 
This practice continued in the 18th century; see photograph of a model in the National Maritime Museum, dating from the early 1760s.
 

Thanks for posting an interesting drawing. 
 
All the best,
 
Mark P
 

Ladies, Sirs, mates and pals,
 
I need your advice.
 
I just found something strange in John Lords Section Cut drawing 35208 where he is showing his research results from Humphrey-Papers concering Old Ironsides original layout. I guess it is to be viewed with a certain .. "sceptsism" since Lord did not have Internet or fellow forum colleauges to get advice from. And: it may be a drawing of a set of drawings- in which here missing information may be shown. What I for example noticed as missing information here: Lord refered to the demand of white oak planks 6 feet from the side for the Gun Deck - but did not advice the 5 feed white oak on upper deck - which Humphrey clearly did.
 
But my question for you experts: do you know any evindence for a raised mid section of the decks - in between the hatches - as Lord is showing here? This "white oak" which seem to run in between the hatches - and having a visible step vs. the white oak planks (interlocked?) "beside the hatches" ). It seems to be 6" while that "third straks" along the hatch seems to be described as 5 1/2" - but lowered into the beams.. and the yellow pine planks have a thickness of about 3 1/2" .. making that step 2 1/2" thick. That´s more than 6 cm !
 
I would think that stronger planks along the mid of a ships deck would help to increase stiffness in general - if there weren´t those hatches, which do "cut" the strengthening feature along the ships lengthwise axis. We know that Humphreys designed "interlocked thick strakes" .. and Lord shows them - one on Gun Deck and at least one in Berthdeck. There are white oak strakes along the hatches - which could be interlocked strakes too - but that is not shown explicitly in the drawing.
Source of this section cut: Alexander Mahoun´s "USS Constitution and other historic ships" - but also being part of John Lords 1926-31 restauration plans.
 
But again my main question: are there any other sources or evidence for a step on decks in that mid section - in the area of hatches? Isn´t that an obstacle for the crew - if you have to move a gun from one to the other side - if you have to run across the decks? Or is this just was Lord was thinking it should be?
What do you think?
 
And .. since you are looking: what does he show here in the center of the ship in Berth deck level: that "thick stuff" 6" ?? 10"? .. is this a 6" x 10"? What would that be? There is a dotted line - but what would that be??

Thanks Rick.  I'm so glad I got her in a case for protection.  I was beginning to worry with her on that open shelf.
Now I have an open shelf for another model....mmmmmmm.
 
Rob

I built the shelf brackets to be exactly like the main beam brackets in the living room.  
I wanted the case to look original to the space, but still purposeful for the model.
I think it looks good and the model is now protected from dust and Cobb webs…..and prying hands. 
I wanted the model to be easily viewable, so I intentionally kept the case as low as possible.  LED track lights from both rooms amply illuminate the model. 
 
Rob

Finished the case and filled it with the model and some historical images.  Here’s some images. 
 

Here are a few construction pics of the new case.   Still have trim to add.  
 
I used 100 year old cedar for the construction.  It was grown about the time Glory of the Seas was burned.    A fitting symbol of one life began as another was ending.   
 
More images to follow today.  
Rob

Building a new case for Glory of the Seas.  It will be from the ceiling down.  A big case built in.  It’s late and I worked on it all day……so no pics till tomorrow.  Till then.    This means I have her existing shelf for another clipper…….
 
Rob

Just as long as you replicate my later versions not the earlier ones . Some of them are frankly awful, but this model was meant to be a learning process so by the time I am done hopefully I will somewhat know what I am doing.
 
As an update, this is what I have found works the best at this point (an update from my previous post where i detailed my method) is to do as follows:
Use a needle to pull the whole rope through itself at the starting point. Split the pulled through strands into the three segments and use super glue on their ends to make sure they don't unravel. Weave each of those ends back and forth through the rope pulling them through with a needle. Ideally you want to weave between the strand not through them, but this is sometimes hard to achieve given the small scales. Pull everything tight and while left under tension coat the splice with watered down fabric glue and leave to dry for a few hours. Use a fresh blade to cut the ends off and then cover the splice with a watered down coat of matt varnish. In all stages use the smallest possible sewing needle that will allow you to get the rope or strand through the eye.

Thank you so much for all the help! I thought I was going crazy. I looked every where for these. I'm starting to think that they where removed for some reason, because the museum didn't have them and I didn't get them with the download the I got from the Navy Museum.
After I get the 28' Whaleboat done I'm going to get started making a Jig file for this one too!
28' GIg Whaleboat.pdf

And one more correction, 22357 is the 28 footer. The plan number should be 23405 attach to this post

Unegawahya, finding the USS Constitution plans is an effort on the Museum's site, because it's not obvious; why, I don't know. So here is the link:
 
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-learn/modeler-resources/
 
For the 36' Pinnace you need plans: 21746, 21747, 22350, 22357
 
edit: I just made a liar out of myself, when I checked the museum's site, they don't have these plans. So, I've attached them to this post.
 
The location of the plans has moved over the years. I originally I down loaded them for free from a US Navy site, now gone. Then the museum sold them on a CD (at least 2 versions that I know about) and finally provided the free download on the link above. If there is any US Navy plan I referenced in my build log that you can't find, let me know, because the plans available to the public has also varied on the years. 
 
Jon

Log #71: Raising the Boom
Next up is the boom.
 
I rigged the block for the boom topping lift in much the same way the other blocks seized to the mast head were done. The main difference is I used a 3.5mm block instead of the 3mm ones. I had wanted to use a 4mm one, but as I have previously discussed, when I went to buy them they were no longer available and so I had to settle for 3.5mm.

I also have been experimenting a bunch with the fake splices and I am slowly getting better at them, though at the same time they are slowly getting closer to a real splice.

According to steel the topping lift should be 4.5 inches cir, this works out to .57mm, but as I didn’t have any 0.6mm rope I instead used 0.5mm.

Counteracting the topping lift we have the sheet tackle. For this I used 0.45mm line copying BE’s arrangement.

For the sheet line I used 0.35mm line. Steel seems to indicate this should be 3 in cir which works out to 0.38 so close enough. I am still having a bit of trouble with the different names between the alert book, steel and the kit instructions, but as there are so many mistakes at this point I am mostly just making sure it makes logical sense and roughly corresponds to steel / the alert book.

And here is the current state of her. Now that all these counteracting lines are in place I need to tie them all off to get rid of the clutter. You can also see I am still working on the tackle for the boom topping lift as the block is spliced onto the line, but is waiting for the glue to dry before I cut off the ends.

Thanks to everyone who has stopped by for the encouragement, she is really starting to look like a sailing ship now.

There was both stone work and brick work in the cooking area.  The below is limited to the 1780 era but these are color drawings of the stone work, flue, copper, stove and hearth brickwork (shown in red) for a 36 and a 64 at RMG Collections.  The legend describes the various parts.
Allan
 

 
 

Hello,
now all the beams are installed. Not every beam got a hanging knee. Only there where they go strait down, that was enow of finger artistic for me  
Is there something like Murphy's law, that the knees dry fit perfectly, but with some glue on it not  



And also the number of cannons increased.

The next thing to do are the coamings for the gratings and the stair.

This has been a challenging--and very fun and rewarding--build, and I’m excited to say it’s FINISHED!! The Model Shipways kit is outstanding--great detail, fittings, materials, laser-cut parts and plans.  As I mentioned a few times, the instructions sometimes left a few things to be desired, but on the whole they were pretty good, and certainly comprehensive. I would recommend the kit enthusiastically to any builder with a little bit of experience under his/her belt.
 
And now for some photos (perhaps too many photos), followed by a few comments on my next build.




















Coming up next is Occre’s model of Ernest Shackleton’s Endurance.  This will be my first experience with Occre, and I’m looking forward to it.  There are quite a few Endurance build logs on these boards, which makes me think twice before writing yet another one. I will probably post one anyway, but perhaps posting less frequently, and primarily when I am deviating from the kit or when something out of the ordinary deserves comment. I don’t anticipate getting started for a month or two, first simply taking a break, then some time reviewing the instructions, taking inventory, reviewing the existing logs, doing some internet research, and doing enough construction to have something to talk about.  I look forward to the journey.
 
 
 
 

The end-of-the-build to do list . . . 
 
I finished the lower shroud ratlines.  Back when those shrouds were installed I made the decision to defer these ratlines until the running rigging was finished, for fear that the former would get in the way of rigging the latter. That was a mistake. The running rigging made rigging the ratlines more challenging, and I didn’t even think about the lower yard getting in the way of rigging the last several ratlines at the upper end. I found myself wanting to put my face where the end of the studding sail boom was, and to avoid damaging the boom (or my eyes), I put a yellow warning flag made of masking tape at the end of each boom.

The forward companionway heading boards are precariously glued to the ship standing on one of their 1\16” edges.  To give them a little more security, I glued a short length of narrow gauge wire in a small hole in each piece to act as a reinforcing pin glued into a corresponding hole in the companionway. Unfortunately I didn’t get a picture of the pin, but you should get the idea.


The plans show an extension of the footrope (a Flemish horse) at the ends of the lower and topsail yards, with the notation “Optional detail depending upon the period being built.” One of my earlier posts asked if anyone knew what “period” was being referred to, and I got no responses.  I simply decided that my model needed this additional detail.

The kit comes with a long, thin pendant, and the instructions provide a detailed description of how to make the flag look like it’s blowing in the wind.  I decided I just didn’t like the look of the pendant and didn’t even try to include it, but I did string a halyard through a small block at the top of the mast down to the outer belaying pin on the aft port bulwark. I linked a couple of small rings together to roughly simulate clips or shackles that would attach to two corners of any flag.  Then I took a couple of wraps around the belaying pin with the lower end of the rope loop.  There would be no rope coil here, as the halyard is a loop.


Over a period of weeks or months after I glued barrels into the gravel in the bilge, a number of them came loose and fell out, both fore and aft. On the aft end, I glued all the missing barrels back in, filling the gaps in Connie’s toothy grin.  At the forward end, I left two barrels out, in order to allow a view of the bottom of the mast and the ends of the bilge pump pipes buried in the gravel.

Finally I installed the previously constructed bell on the front of the mast.

My FINISHED post, after taking some FINISHED photos, will come along within a few days, maybe sooner.

STL files if anybody wants them.
 
 
6 Pounder Carronade Barrel.stl 6 Pounder Carronade Mount.stl 6 Pounder Trunnion Carronade Barrel.stl 6 Pounder Carronade Axle.stl

Before I ask a question, I would like to show my previous studies on rope making.
 

This is a conventional ropewalk machine for model work. This setting uses 1 yarn to build 1 strand. Also, 1 rope has 3 strands. I'll say it is a 1x3 setting.
 

This is a 2x3 setting. It uses 2 yarns to build 1 strand.
 

In the same story, this is a 4x3 setting.
 

This is a 4x4 setting.
 
Ok, let's check real ropewalk machine.
 

(Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bquft1_ezIs )
 
I counted the holes. The machine uses 120 yarns to build 1 strands. The final rope is 4 stranded. In the same story, I'll say this is a 120 x 4 setting.
 
 

To build the real rope, I unravelled a factory thread and re-ropewalked. The result is better than the others.
 
However, I found that I couldn't compress the yarns anymore. I need the exact same machine that a real rope factory uses.
 

In other words, I need to extract each yarn from a factory thread, and
 
 

I also need a micro-sized ropewalk with 120 holes for the hair-thin yarns.
 
It's a dead end of my study. I may need to change a mechanism. Is there a better ropewalk machine for model work? I'm using the Domanoff's VR ropewalk.
 
Also, I'm looking for the synthetic polyester yarns (fiber). Extracting it from thread is time and labor consuming work.

Log #70: Rigging the Gaff
With the ratlines out of the way and lots of lessons learned I have now moved back to a more fun part of the build. I do enjoy the rigging as it always feels like there is tangible progress when you are doing it. My plan is to rig the gaff and boom first followed by the topmast and then slowly work my way forward.
 
Step one was to prepare the necessary blocks. I tried a new technique for attaching hooks based on suggestions given back when I was rigging the cannons. It seemed to turn out pretty well so I may continue playing with the method you can find more detail on in @glbarlow’s cheerful log.

And here is the final result along with a block for the gaff peak halliard.

The rigging of the gaff is a bit confusing as it is called different things by steel and the alert book, but I think the discussion is best summarized by directing you to @Blue Ensign‘s log here. The main difference from my perspective is that I had previously decided to use smaller blocks for the peak halliard (or outer tie) than the throat halliard (or inner tie). This meant that the steel rope sizes (3.5 and 3 inch circ. respectively) did not make much sense as I would be using the smaller blocks with the thicker rope.
 
In the end I just reversed the sizes using .45mm and .35mm rope. This may not be technically correct, but it visually lines up with what I have already done.

I have also come up with a new way of faking a splice. I think this looks better than my previous attempts and though I may play with the method some more I thought I would share it.
 
The first step was to use a needle to pull the rope through itself. I did this twice, first one way and then the other. Once I had done this I split off one of the rope strands and repeated the process.

I then split off a second strand and pulled only one strand through twice. The end result is progressively less of the rope woven into itself.

This final result was coated with watered down fabric glue and left to dry. Once dry I used a scalple to remove the ends leaving the imitation splice.

With that I have the gaff raised.

I am currently using clips to hold things in tension until they stretch a little to hold their shape. Please note that I currently have everything only temporarily secured and I am aware that the throat halliard is tied off on the wrong place (it is meant to tie off at the bits). I need to do some more research to figure out what all these tie offs look like and where the excess rope should go before I secure everything permenantly.

My own method for dealing with ratlines so that shrouds do not 'hourglass' is to tie every fifth ratline first, then every third one and finally all the remaining ones. By not progressively working every one up in sequence, this has always worked well for me.

I am watching your build with admiration.
 
I use the method in the photo to stop ratlines from pulling the shrouds. I clamp the shrouds between two strips of appropriate width using clamps, so I can maintain the distance between the shrouds. These strips also help to keep distance between the ratlines same. You may want to try it in your future projects.

Log #69: Ratlines Complete
The ratlines are finally complete. I can say without a doubt that this has been the most tedious part of the whole build. How people have the patience for the ratlines on Victory I really don’t know.
 
Thank you for all the encouraging feedback on the commander. I have put him to the side now as I still need to varnish him to take some of the sheen off certain colours of the paint (particularly the light blue). I will likely not attach him to the ship until the very end as even though I will be pinning him, the risk that he is either in the way of a line I want to run or that I catch him as I am rigging is too great.

The second time round on the shrouds I tried to be more methodical and also played with using the hair dryer as I went along.
 
The ultimate result of this was funnily enough a worse job than the previous time. Try as I might I couldn’t get the ratlines to stop pulling in the shrouds and so this side has more of a pronounced curve to the shrouds. This was incredibly frustrating, but in the end I just couldn’t face pulling them all off and starting again. I will just use this side as the back of the model :).

I did learn a lot of lessons about what not to do so maybe next time I will be able to do a better job. I might also experiment with different materials as though the definition on the rope I used is really nice, getting the correct tension was really hard due to how inflexible it was. I also need to pay more attention to the tension of the lower ratlines as opposed to the upper ones.

Lots of lessons learned.

Log #68: Master & Commander
Thank you to everyone who has stopped by for the comments and encouragement. I continue to slowly work on the rat lines, but decided to take a bit of a break to do something a bit more fun.
 
As I have previously shown I ordered a figure from vanguard models which I plan to include on Alert to demonstrate scale. To start things I cut it off of the base and primed it in black before doing a zenithal highlight with white ink.

The zenithal highlight does two things. First it helps me to get a feel for the model and second it highlights the areas that will be brighter giving me less work later.
 
The next step was to base coat the colours and start work on the face. As a general rule I like to paint inside out. Starting with the hardest to reach areas and then moving on to the easier ones. My go to for painting white skin is the following tutorial.
 
You can see below the state of affairs after the base costs and the skin done. Note at this point I mistakenly thought he was wearing boots, this was corrected later.

Next up was the pants and socks. After difficult to reach, my next priority is to paint the hard colours, the ones that don't cover very well. The paints I used for the pants can be seen below.

Then I painted the coat and here are the paints used for it.

You may be wondering why I have red on a blue coat. The reason is that I find for making shadows I like to mix in a colour from the other side of the colour wheel. In this case I went with red as I wanted a warm purple for the shadows.
 
And then finally the gold details. I did this in a non-metalic metal style using the following paints.

And here was the final result. Not the smoothest gradients I have ever done, but good enough. Particularly when you are looking at it from normal viewing distances it holds up well enough.