Windships

Thanks for you note Eric. It is remarkable to me that this ferry, which was essential in the lives of so many people in that community has become essentially invisible. Hoping that microfilm copies of a handful of local newspapers from that time may contain what we are seeking. Stay tuned!

Superb model. Thanks for posting all your work. John Earl sent me to you. We recently discovered that my g/g/grandfather Jonathan (John) Biddle of Valley City, Illinois once owned and operated--on the Illinois River--the steam sternwheeler ferry named Z. Biddle after his father, Zachariah. To keep this short, she had an Official Number so I got her primary dimensions (of the hull alone) and was able to reconstruct her complete ownership history. But so far, no written description, sketch, drawings or photographs. She was active from about September 1878 until July 1892 when her license was surrendered with the indication that she had been wrecked and too expensive to repair. I think she may have been a casualty of a freak cyclone which destroyed other boats on the Illinois on 12 July 1892, with great loss of life. Should I locate enough reliable data, I might build a model. Your log will be enormously helpful. Never having tackled a steamboat before, I am amazed at their complexity. She is in Wray's Packet Directory. NARA DC provided her official documentation, but there may be more at NARA Kansas City.

Happy to get acquainted Charles, thanks. We are of similar mind it seems about not accepting conventional wisdom as truth. I expect my article to generate some controversy, and it will be welcomed. Challenging a nearly one-hundred year notion of what "this Hannah" looked like, and other aspects of her history should lead to lively exchanges. In her case, there actually evolved two different interpretations which each for a time, were never questioned by our community. Surprisingly, they arrived on the scene within just a few years of one another. The 1970 Smithsonian model, and soon the Harold Hahn model. As Paul Fontenoy said, stay tuned, keep checking back..I am as eager as anyone to see the complete report on our new web site. Clay Feldman, if you've not already been in touch with him, is very approachable on everything he's delved into. Keep building - and as you are already doing -- ask the tough questions before you waste your precious time at your bench. Randy

Charles, our mutual friend Maury Stuffmann passed your post to me. Thanks for your question, and thanks for reading the introduction to my article. As you will see, once the balance of the piece is up on the NRG web site, Walter C. Leavitt made two models which he named Hannah. One is in the Marblehead Historical Society, and the other in the Addison Gallery Collection at Phillips Academy in Andover, MA. Note that I said "he named Hannah" rather than a "model of Hannah" That distinction should be made abundantly clear in the full article as well. I don't know one way or the other whether Clyde and Walter are related. Never came across his name in my research. Walter made several other models, and in the full article mention is made of some of them. Re: Lexington - and I'm guessing here -- I think at the time to which you are referring, models made named Lexington might have been based on Charles G. Davis book, from which August Crabtree also built a stunning model, calling it Lexington. Refer to the research by our well-know friend and colleague Clay Feldman, if you want to learn more about Lexington and the various interpretations of her by model builders. Best Christmastime Wishes Everyone Randy Biddle

The film doesn't begin to match the book, which I read many years ago.

M Where do I order a couple of these beauties? Looks great, in spite of whatever contribution I might have made. RB

Hi Bill Thanks for your reply. I'll follow your lead. One of these days we plan to get up to Lewiston, and to Sandpoint where my 1962 high school woodshop teacher retired. You're right of course, about the frequent intersection of ship modelers and model railroaders. We learn a lot from those folks. All best, next time in Boise, give me a shout. Randy

Lori, I know yours is a four -year-old post, but... In June of 2017 my wife and I moved to Star, Idaho from Valencia, California. I am a professional builder of ship models, and have done many repairs of models over the years. If you are still in need of assistance, give me a shout. 661-645-5742 windships@earthlink.net If you already had your model repaired, perhaps you can introduce me to whomever did the work. I have yet to meet anyone up here (except IPMS plastic modelers) who do what I do. Thanks, and looking forward to your reply.

Maybe too late for a useful reply, but get this report online. Excellent drawings of a stove recovered from this wreck site. https://files.nc.gov/dncr-arch/PDF/Rose-Hill-Report.pdf and the image below from a different wreck. I will probably reference this work in my book about the origin of the vessel Chaleur (1763-1768). All Best Rose-Hill-Report - includes details of iron camboose.pdf

Looking for contact information for Karl Heinz Marquardt with whom I last corresponded in 1996. I note your mention of his web site, but I have not found such on the web Thanks for whatever you can provide.

RE my book project, here is an excertped cut and paste from another discussion on the forum--originally related to answering a question about armament of the vessel CHALEUR while in Royal Navy service. As you can see Charlie, someone "has tried to reconstruct Chaleur." But not in the way you might have thought. The Admiralty draught for Chaleur was made shortly before she was sold out of service, not before she began her naval career. But I'm getting ahead of myself... How do I know this? I have been a student of this vessel for a very long time, and am reasonably close to submitting my book ms to publishers yet to be identified. The work focuses on her life prior to being acquired by the Royal Navy, and the last five months of her life in naval service. Harold Hahn has already treated her time in service. At the NRG Conference in San Diego this October [2016], I will be speaking about developing a plausible framing schema for the vessel, based upon clues on the Admiralty draught, and other research into eighteenth-century merchant vessel construction in North America. A plank-on-frame model---made to eventual drawings using this schema, is a worthy challenge for any scratch builder. A bit more complex than the “Admiralty style” of framing. Here, in no particular order, are some of the questions asked and answered in my book, after deep digging in primary source material at The National Archives, Kew, England, other archives and the kindness of other scholars and colleagues: My initial contrarian hypothesis about the origin of Chaleur, and why it was rather strongly dismissed by many of our knowledgeable colleagues. The detective work—my own and that of valued research associates in England, Canada and elsewhere, that proved me correct; and, which resulted in many other interesting findings about this vessel. How and why I selected the vessel which I’m now absolutely confident became Chaleur. Guidance for anyone wishing to do similar research about other vessels of this period in our history. Why Hahn and many others who have since relied on Hahn, were misled by the absence of key information not provided by his UK researcher about Chaleur. When and where was she built, and by whom? Who owned her, and where did she go? How did this vessel in particular become one of six choices for purchase by the Royal Navy? Why any model you (made or) make based on Hahn and Chapelle, and even the Admiralty draught--after all your hard work, will not produce the representation you thought you were creating. Background on the Smithsonian model in this post, and why it is a misrepresentation as well. Why most everything Chapelle wrote, and he and William Avery Baker concluded about Chaleur is not correct. Did Admiral Colvill---who was ordered to purchase "six Marblehead schooners or sloops" really get what he directed others to find and procure? Something about the identities of the two schooners purchased at Boston at the same time as this vessel. Errors about some of the six purchased vessels, even in the Admiralty correspondence. Biographical information about the owner of the vessel when she was first registered; in the context of the brewing conflict between Loyalists and those seeking independence from England. A truly unprecedented in-depth analysis of Chapelle's early writing, thinking, and rationale behind developing and presenting his drawings; and, his admonitions to--and complaints about, we in the model making community. My intent is to include working drawings for model makers. They will enable more accurate representations of the vessel; prior to her purchase, and thereafter during her short career in the Royal Navy. Each rendering will be based heavily on what was thankfully recorded in her last log. Last…why, the fact that a draught of Chaleur survived, has such significance; as compared to those for Halifax, or Sultana, and others from that period. Stay tuned. And I hope to see many of you in San Diego in October. Thanks for the opportunity to comment. Quote Edit Options Delete

In my research for a book project, I found Douglas MacGregor (I think in Fast Sailing Ships, but also in other of his writings), and John Lyman to be the most reliable sources on this arcane subject. Lyman's work, as I recall (we just moved so everything is tossed here...) is in early volumes of American Neptune October 1945). William Avery Baker has something to say about it as well: William A. Baker, A Maritime History of Bath, Maine and the Kennebec River Region, (Bath, Maine: Marine Research Society of Bath, 1973). And Marion V. Brewington, contributor, “Tonnage Rules of 1799,” The American Neptune, Notes 1, no. 3 (July 1941). W. Salisbury, “Early Tonnage Measurement in England, IV. Rules Used By Shipwrights and Merchants,” The Mariner's Mirror 53, Number 3 (1967). As the thread indicates, many formulae were tried (and a few established as standards for a time...) to estimate the internal carrying capacity of a hull (that's what tunnage/tonnage means in your period of interest), but the results of applying those formulae are just that, estimates or approximations. For my book, I devote an entire chapter to the subject, but do not claim to be an expert by any means. The few references I list here are by no means exhaustive. There may be articles in our own Nautical Research Journal--a surprisingly oft overlooked source, for a myriad of topics in our field. Good luck.