Louie da fly

You've done a beautiful job. Congratulations on completing - a lot of work, but well worth it.
 
Steven

Thanks Roger. That's my opinion entirely. A lot of this is educated guesswork based on (extremely!) inadequate source material. Of course we can't be sure it's all correct, but a lot of the fun is in the investigation of source material and speculation as to how it could be done, given the pictorial evidence (often affected by artistic licence), the archaeological evidence (often frustratingly incomplete) and the practicalities of sailing a wooden vessel.
 
And if later evidence proves one of the guesses wrong, one still has the satisfaction of having done the best one could with the information that was available at the time.
 
So, on to current progress. Shrouds and halyards in place, but only the foremast shrouds have been finalised.

I really do need to clear my workdesk before I take photos!
 
I made new silkspan sails - I wasn't happy with the first iteration. This time I made them oversize and folded the edges over instead of gluing strips of silkspan to the edges. The cross was painted on with Tamiya acrylic paint. I needed two coats for the "face" side and one for the other side. Considerably happier with the second version.
And I've added the blocks to the yards - for the tacks at the lower ends and the vangs at the upper.

Druxey, if I might pick your brains - how did you attach the bolt ropes to your silkspan sails (they look particularly good)? And the robands?
 
Steven
 
 
 

Thanks Roger. That's my opinion entirely. A lot of this is educated guesswork based on (extremely!) inadequate source material. Of course we can't be sure it's all correct, but a lot of the fun is in the investigation of source material and speculation as to how it could be done, given the pictorial evidence (often affected by artistic licence), the archaeological evidence (often frustratingly incomplete) and the practicalities of sailing a wooden vessel.
 
And if later evidence proves one of the guesses wrong, one still has the satisfaction of having done the best one could with the information that was available at the time.
 
So, on to current progress. Shrouds and halyards in place, but only the foremast shrouds have been finalised.

I really do need to clear my workdesk before I take photos!
 
I made new silkspan sails - I wasn't happy with the first iteration. This time I made them oversize and folded the edges over instead of gluing strips of silkspan to the edges. The cross was painted on with Tamiya acrylic paint. I needed two coats for the "face" side and one for the other side. Considerably happier with the second version.
And I've added the blocks to the yards - for the tacks at the lower ends and the vangs at the upper.

Druxey, if I might pick your brains - how did you attach the bolt ropes to your silkspan sails (they look particularly good)? And the robands?
 
Steven
 
 
 

Thanks Roger. That's my opinion entirely. A lot of this is educated guesswork based on (extremely!) inadequate source material. Of course we can't be sure it's all correct, but a lot of the fun is in the investigation of source material and speculation as to how it could be done, given the pictorial evidence (often affected by artistic licence), the archaeological evidence (often frustratingly incomplete) and the practicalities of sailing a wooden vessel.
 
And if later evidence proves one of the guesses wrong, one still has the satisfaction of having done the best one could with the information that was available at the time.
 
So, on to current progress. Shrouds and halyards in place, but only the foremast shrouds have been finalised.

I really do need to clear my workdesk before I take photos!
 
I made new silkspan sails - I wasn't happy with the first iteration. This time I made them oversize and folded the edges over instead of gluing strips of silkspan to the edges. The cross was painted on with Tamiya acrylic paint. I needed two coats for the "face" side and one for the other side. Considerably happier with the second version.
And I've added the blocks to the yards - for the tacks at the lower ends and the vangs at the upper.

Druxey, if I might pick your brains - how did you attach the bolt ropes to your silkspan sails (they look particularly good)? And the robands?
 
Steven
 
 
 

Very nice looking sails, Steven.
 
As for the historical accuracy of the model - "based of the best available information at the time of building." 
 
John

Thanks Roger. That's my opinion entirely. A lot of this is educated guesswork based on (extremely!) inadequate source material. Of course we can't be sure it's all correct, but a lot of the fun is in the investigation of source material and speculation as to how it could be done, given the pictorial evidence (often affected by artistic licence), the archaeological evidence (often frustratingly incomplete) and the practicalities of sailing a wooden vessel.
 
And if later evidence proves one of the guesses wrong, one still has the satisfaction of having done the best one could with the information that was available at the time.
 
So, on to current progress. Shrouds and halyards in place, but only the foremast shrouds have been finalised.

I really do need to clear my workdesk before I take photos!
 
I made new silkspan sails - I wasn't happy with the first iteration. This time I made them oversize and folded the edges over instead of gluing strips of silkspan to the edges. The cross was painted on with Tamiya acrylic paint. I needed two coats for the "face" side and one for the other side. Considerably happier with the second version.
And I've added the blocks to the yards - for the tacks at the lower ends and the vangs at the upper.

Druxey, if I might pick your brains - how did you attach the bolt ropes to your silkspan sails (they look particularly good)? And the robands?
 
Steven
 
 
 

Thanks, Eric. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a show pony in that regard. I enjoy trying for a bit of extra interest in my builds to spark the attention of those in the know.
 
Steven

Very sorry to hear that, mate. I can only send you my best wishes.
 
Steven

That's ok. Take your time and concentrate on getting well.
 
And when you get the time, you'll probably find the diorama work is good therapy in your recovery.
 
Steven

Looking forward to progress on this one.
 
Do we get more of the back-story about the green drakkar?
 
Steven

You've done a beautiful job. Congratulations on completing - a lot of work, but well worth it.
 
Steven

You've done a beautiful job. Congratulations on completing - a lot of work, but well worth it.
 
Steven

The Mayflower has sailed up to the display case.  It was fun putting it  all together.  Standing back and looking at three years of modeling, and two are not there that I gave away as well.
It was a little  crowded but they fit, I may change-up the look later on in life but for now it will look like this

I am glad I took a half inch off the top of the main mast. After the case went back on less than a eighth of an inch clearance  whooo whoops that was close . 😬 
So some more pictures of the casing of the Mayflower.  Thank you all who help on this build. I am learning lots just have a problem retaining it  lol.




That's it for this journey, after all is said and done this was a fun kit to put together.  It looks good right out of the bow and you can upgrade things.
  After the Mayflower sailed, guess who showed up.  Captain Marvin. 

And he brought his little brother  Stev with him. He was not happy about the Mayflower sailing away before he could talk to Capt Christopher Jones about his recent lay off. Even madder still that he now has to find a way to sail on up to the case. Lol  He told his brother  Stev fire up the old " llludium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator"  it time to make some fish and chips with you know who lol.

LOL. Back to reality.  I like thus ship because of the simple look and not a lot of colours. This is only my preference of course. I ready wanted to do better on tieing off things.  The rigging is fun to do, just had to do a lot of guess work in regards to the colour of the line and the size. But it was a great learning experience, and looking forward to get beck to my Pegasus.  But I want to do a couple of quick builds then a bigger one.  After that I will return  to the Pegasus. 
 I was mistaken about my renewal date it's at the end of June not May. But I did start my first log here on May 21st  2021. And the two members who said hello for the first time still talk with me today . Although one my be banging his head against the wall , because  I going to start yet  another Viking  boat log lol. But @Louie da fly don't worry I won't bug you to much. You have already answered almost every question one could have about vikings  so I will  just reviewe all the Drakkar logs. Then when it is finished, I will put it underneath  behind the curtain, but will put a plexiglass in front. 

I would be amiss  if I did not thank NRG and MSW for all that they do for us members.  And thanks to all the members  as well . I have had so much fun. Learning  everything.  And then get to learn it a0ll over again lol. There IS a lot to ship building, and I know you have to be patient, let the paint dry lol. But so many members have gave me idea on how to do things. Plus our data base. @Chuck fantastic  planking videos. I really  did watch them many times. Thanks for the help. Thank you all who helped along the way , there are so many I can't  list them all for fear of forgetting one member. 
 I join to learn how to build ships, I am doing that but also having  so much fun. Every model is a journey  looking forward  to talking to you on my future  builds.
 Thanks for the memories  Bob M.
 
                                   
I only try to be as accurate as I can, but when Neanderthals have fun they only want to make it look pretty  😍  lol 😆 
Sea you  on the next one.

This is the first Amati Mayflower log on MSW to be mark Finished .😁

Hello Steven, at the moment it slows down a bit. I returned to work after 6 month of illness and I returned to restricted duties only. I might face a surgery as well. So yes, building process slowed down a bit, but I might go for the harbour scenario especially since it seems to be very hard to get viking figures in 1:25 / 1:24 scale that are not warriors but merchants.
 
I will keep you guys updated for sure, just at the moment I don´t post much of the progress even if I should do. Will try to change my "attitude" for this.
 
Micha

Looking forward to progress on this one.
 
Do we get more of the back-story about the green drakkar?
 
Steven

Looking forward to progress on this one.
 
Do we get more of the back-story about the green drakkar?
 
Steven

Looking forward to progress on this one.
 
Do we get more of the back-story about the green drakkar?
 
Steven

My apologies to @Louie da fly for yet another  Viking Long Boat. But it will be like no other Viking ship you have seen my friend. You will be green with envy  lol.
 Yes the official box opening and look at the parts. One roll of line that's it , grinning already. 


So I laid out the plans and instructions and noticed an empty space were Captain Marvin usually is, was empty.  Oh well I will miss the little fellow  but you can't build a  ships with out a #1 . So I hired two local  fellows who tell of a Irish Drakkar  that sail from Irelad in the late 10th century.  It's quite the tall tail, might even be a myth, by the looks of these two lol.



They tell a tale of a Drakkar that was called " The Green". Sound interesting  so . I don't know if I can put that in he title  but we will see. There story go's something like this.  Enjoy.

Taking a look at the plans and I am  going to start numbering parts and putting things away.   To day I will glue together the Keel and bulkheads together.  By that time   it will be  be time to quit for the day
 

So another journey begins," Skoal "
Bob M.
 
 
 
 

It just hit me last night - I've been in the throes of writing the Great Viking Novel for as long as I can remember (may never get published, but hey, it's fun), and my hero goes on a trading trip in a knarr in 1065 to the realm of Jarl Thorfinn the Mighty, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorfinn_the_Mighty) whose base was the Brough of Birsay in the Orkney islands north of Scotland. Here's a wonderful map https://maps.walkingclub.org.uk/os/explorer/463-orkney-west-mainland
 
At the very top left of the "mainland" you'll see "Brough Head". Zoom right in and there's the Brough of Birsay, a small island cut off whenever the tide is full (sea-level changes dramatically with the tides), and that's where Thorfinn had his settlement. Brough is basically the same word as the Old English burh - a fortified settlement - which appears as "-burgh" or "-borough" at the end of many place-names in Britain.
 
The island slopes upward from almost sea-level at the eastern end where the settlement was, to high cliffs on the west. As far as I can see traders coming here could have pulled their ships up on the sandy beach at high tide and perhaps unloaded when the tide was out. Here's a video with really good views of the island -
 
 
 
I hope that is of some help to you. Maybe you could consider this as a setting for your Roar Edge.
 
Steven

It is indeed difficult to get Viking period figures who are ordinary people, not warriors or the rich. A site that gives a more realistic idea of what "normal Vikings" looked like is at https://sagy.vikingove.cz/en/the-interview-for-hella-the-viking-blog/
 
A well-off merchant might have looked like this - https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/137219119871448037/
 
While a really high status Viking (probably a member of the nobility) might have looked like this https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/948148527770532075/ (that cloak is copied from a real archaeological find, including that wonderful decorative border - click on the Pinterest link and it takes you to an article on the original find).
 
Sorry I can't help with figures ( I have to carve mine), but cargo would yes, be barrels, perhaps oiled leather bags (for waterproofing) chests (There's the Mastermyr chest, which contained carpenters' tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mästermyr_chest and https://www.angelfire.com/wy/svenskildbiter/Viking/vikchest.html, and is fairly typical, as well as the Oseberg chests https://loveevamk.life/product_tag/32008505_.html - but use those with caution, as they were in a royal grave).
 
For  my own nef - though it's from a few centuries after, ships hadn't changed all that much - I added a cargo of barrels - see post #193 and onward at 
Hope that helps. Nice to see someone doing a merchant ship instead of all the drakkars!
 
Steven
 
 

I've come across this discussion a bit late, but that's probably a good thing, as I've had the opportunity to read arguments for and against the lateen interpretation.
 
Tartane, I appreciate your input and suggestions, as I do those of the others who've posted on this subject. I've also done a lot of research on the rigging and configuration of lateen sails, not only on this build but on my dromon of some years ago. And though I don't regard myself as an expert by any means, I feel I have a good understanding of the rig. 
 
Of the mosaics I posted at the beginning of this log, only one is actually under sail, and even that is having the sails furled. There are two other ship mosaics of this series in San Marco, plus one from another similar series, but two have the sails completely furled,
  
and the other (from the other series) shows pretty definite triangular sails.

Although the classic image of a lateen sail is triangular, with a sharply angled yard:

The sail can take many configurations, including with the yard all but horizontal, depending on the angle of the ship in relation to the wind:
  
  
and see also 1:23 to 1:30 in this video:
 
 
Though the yards in the mosaics are mostly not far from horizontal, I am nonetheless satisfied that they depict lateen, not square rig. The first picture in my log could be interpreted as almost any type of sail, but the second seems (at least to me) to taper to a point at the bottom - in other words, a triangle. This is supported by the multitude of mediaeval representations of lateen rigged Mediterranean round ships.
 
     
     
I am not trying to claim that all Mediterranean ships in the mediaeval period were lateen-rigged - particularly after the cog began to reach there from the Atlantic - but there is certainly ample evidence for my interpretation of the sails of my Venetian ship to be lateen.
 
Tartane, I do appreciate your posting the picture of the knevel. I had been puzzling over how to  belay the shrouds, and though I've already committed myself now, I find the knevel to be a simple and practical apparatus, and better than what I came up with myself - to the point that I wish I'd seen it earlier as I would have used it on this model. The wooden toggle that joins the shroud to the rope loop has been found time and time again in marine archaeology from ancient times through mediaeval, and is still use on Mediterranean lateeners today.
 
Yes, I'm doing exactly as you pointed out when tacking, that the leeward shrouds are loosened to allow the sail to belly out and take full advantage of the wind. I mentioned this in an earlier post.
 
Steven
 
 
 

Doreltomin, you're probably right. But I'm not going to carve another figure - the mistake will just have to remain for eagle-eyed people like you to spot and comment on 
 
Tartane, thank you for your input, but despite your belief that the halyards in this configuration would foul the sails, that nonetheless seems to be the way they did it. Note the position of the halyards on these two 2-masted ships  - they lead to the black triangle at the top of each mast and around the white dot (the sheave) and back down again.

Zibaldone da Canale  early 14th century
 
And the same applies with these ones
                  
Bestiary Morgan Library ms4 59 fol 18r North Italy c. 1290          1232 - 1261 Bohemund: William of Tyre's Histoire d'Outremer, BL Yates Thompson 12 f.58v
And these 
  
1332 Italy, KBR ms. 9404-05 - Liber secretorum Fidelium Crucis       St Ursula, Church de San Francisco de Palma de Mallorca 1st quarter 14th century
 
And as confirmation that this is not just artistic invention,  multi-masted lateeners and setee-rigged vessels in the 20th century continued to do so:
   

I am quite prepared to believe your contention that chebecs did it differently, but there  is sufficient evidence that this was the way it was done in mediaeval times, and has continued to be done this way in many vessels for centuries in between.
 
Steven
 

I've come across this discussion a bit late, but that's probably a good thing, as I've had the opportunity to read arguments for and against the lateen interpretation.
 
Tartane, I appreciate your input and suggestions, as I do those of the others who've posted on this subject. I've also done a lot of research on the rigging and configuration of lateen sails, not only on this build but on my dromon of some years ago. And though I don't regard myself as an expert by any means, I feel I have a good understanding of the rig. 
 
Of the mosaics I posted at the beginning of this log, only one is actually under sail, and even that is having the sails furled. There are two other ship mosaics of this series in San Marco, plus one from another similar series, but two have the sails completely furled,
  
and the other (from the other series) shows pretty definite triangular sails.

Although the classic image of a lateen sail is triangular, with a sharply angled yard:

The sail can take many configurations, including with the yard all but horizontal, depending on the angle of the ship in relation to the wind:
  
  
and see also 1:23 to 1:30 in this video:
 
 
Though the yards in the mosaics are mostly not far from horizontal, I am nonetheless satisfied that they depict lateen, not square rig. The first picture in my log could be interpreted as almost any type of sail, but the second seems (at least to me) to taper to a point at the bottom - in other words, a triangle. This is supported by the multitude of mediaeval representations of lateen rigged Mediterranean round ships.
 
     
     
I am not trying to claim that all Mediterranean ships in the mediaeval period were lateen-rigged - particularly after the cog began to reach there from the Atlantic - but there is certainly ample evidence for my interpretation of the sails of my Venetian ship to be lateen.
 
Tartane, I do appreciate your posting the picture of the knevel. I had been puzzling over how to  belay the shrouds, and though I've already committed myself now, I find the knevel to be a simple and practical apparatus, and better than what I came up with myself - to the point that I wish I'd seen it earlier as I would have used it on this model. The wooden toggle that joins the shroud to the rope loop has been found time and time again in marine archaeology from ancient times through mediaeval, and is still use on Mediterranean lateeners today.
 
Yes, I'm doing exactly as you pointed out when tacking, that the leeward shrouds are loosened to allow the sail to belly out and take full advantage of the wind. I mentioned this in an earlier post.
 
Steven
 
 
 

Thanks, Eric. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a show pony in that regard. I enjoy trying for a bit of extra interest in my builds to spark the attention of those in the know.
 
Steven

Thanks, Eric. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a show pony in that regard. I enjoy trying for a bit of extra interest in my builds to spark the attention of those in the know.
 
Steven