CDR_Ret

Yessir, to virtually any number of decimal places you desire in either imperial or metric units. I use Blender mainly as a free 3D CAD  program after Sketchup was no longer free to hobbyists.
 
As others have mentioned, Blender has a steep learning curve, but there are helpful, experienced users in our community.
 
Terry

Or you could move to the Dark Side for free and try 3D printing using the Blender extensions.🙂

A bit ironically, I must thank you for reminding me of the Kresta, at least the Kresta-2.
 
Initially I thought I won't need two relatively similar ships, having already converted the Kara to a primary air-defense cruiser.
 
Historically, in the USSR, the Kresta-2 (1134A) came before the Kara (1134B), and Kara contained all kinds of additional systems and improvements.
 
But I am painting Britain, and a very special version of Britain at that, and the British logic dictates that having built several ships of the 1134B project, the Admiralty becomes acutely aware of the involved expenses and requires a smaller, more compact and economical variant, which cuts the close-range air defense and the towed array (because those are moved to the specialized ASW frigates) and results in smaller hull with much smaller crew.
 
This closely mirrors the story of Bristol and Type 42 destroyers in real world, so in our version of Britain the Kresta-2, sorry, the Type 44 Air Defense Destroyer, will be built after the Type 84, and carry the same electronics, missiles, etc., sans the removed capabilities.
 
I can imagine the discussions in stuffy London offices quite vividly, in that Sir Humphrey's drawl -
 
"We are building modern and spacious frigates, whatever we need those enormous cruisers for? Can't we have something... smaller? Oh, and you can put the radar on the funnel and cut the length, why on earth haven't you said so before?"
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brings back memories as a young USN air intelligence officer doing ship recognition briefings for the carrier pilots 'way back during the Cold War. Kotlins and Kashins involved in "shouldering" incidents in the Med. Krestas shadowing the CBGs. Fun times--not!

Brings back memories as a young USN air intelligence officer doing ship recognition briefings for the carrier pilots 'way back during the Cold War. Kotlins and Kashins involved in "shouldering" incidents in the Med. Krestas shadowing the CBGs. Fun times--not!

I got everyone together. Gods and heroes, beasts and monsters. Figureheads of sailing ships.

Although the extremely important wreck of a mid-16th century seagoing ship built in the Basque region of Spain has already been studied in great detail and presented to the public in the comprehensive, multi-volume monograph The Underwater Archaeology Red Bay. Basque Shipbuilding and Whaling in the 16th Century, published by Parcs Canada in 2007, nevertheless, the following presentation will not be a repetition of the material contained therein, but rather to complement certain omissions or even a different interpretation of this archaeological find. In a nutshell, the aim of this exercise is to recreate and present the method of designing a ship in terms of its geometrical conception, an issue that is fundamental to naval architecture and yet so little understood today for the early modern period.
 
Somewhat retrospectively, it can already be said that the Red Bay Vessel is an example of the then classic proportion as, dos, tres (breadth : keel length : total length = 1 : 2 : 3), recommended by authors of numerous works of the period, and applied in this particular case in a very literal, astonishingly precise manner.
 
Apart from the main proportions of the ship, no less important from the point of view of the history of naval architecture is the method used to form the shape of the hull, and taking into account its specific details. In this ship, one of the widespread Mediterranean methods of hull forming was used, which, nota bene, was also adopted at about this time in England, and was still used there in its generic form in the first decades of the 17th century, before being creatively developed into the more sophisticated ways generally referred to today as English moulding.
 
 

Archaeological model of the wreck of San Juan, the Basque whaling ship, scale 1:10 (Parcs Canada)
 
 
 
Shapes of the ship's hull reproduced by applying the found method of designing the vessel:
 

 

 

 
 
In addition to the monograph of the wreck itself, which may be not available to everyone, much interesting material regarding the hull structure of the shipwreck can also be found in the provided below publication by Robert Grenier, The Basque whaling ship from Red Bay, 2001 (public domain).
 
Grenier Robert - The basque whaling ship from Red Bay - 2001.pdf
 
 
 

One of the more difficult aspects of getting started in DELFTship for the novice user is inserting the background reference images.
 
May I suggest that you download the tutorial I created several years ago (attached). I haven't updated these files for the current version of DELFTship Free, so the manual references and illustrations showing program controls will not reflect the latest version. You should be able to sort things out, since the background image insertion feature hasn't changed much, if at all.
 
I recommend reading all five parts of the tutorial before starting a model. Please message me if you run into issues getting started. The tutorial is quite wordy, I'm afraid, but it does the job the Manual does not. Just take your time working through it. If you find any mistakes, please let me know so I can correct them. No one has reported any issues in the past two years!
 
This is how a complete hull appears displaying the Gaussian surface ("Gauss") tool. I used my 1891 brigantine Galilee model for this example. Surfaces that are either flat or curve in only one direction (like a cylinder) are green. Surfaces that curve in more than direction shade toward yellow, orange, and red, depending on the rate of curvature. This tool takes some practice to interpret the fairness of the hull shape—and how to make corrections. The image also shows the station, waterline, and buttock "intersections" with the outer hull surface. You can add as many intersections as you like to help define the hull shape. Just remember that you are trying to match the intersection lines to the corresponding lines in the plans, not the control net nodes!

The "Zebra" and "Environmental map" surface reflections shown on the tool bar are more helpful in surfaces that are geometrically smooth, like fiberglass (think: racing yacht). The Gaussian tool is fine for wooden hulls. Don't be surprised if you find that the as-drawn plans aren't smooth and fair in this program. The plans reflect their age, drafting methods, and provenance. You will have to decide how great a departure from the plans you will accept to obtain a smooth hull! DELFTship is a mathematical program. Wooden ships are handcrafted.
 
Terry
 
Part 1-DELFTship_Bkgrd_Images.pdf Part 2-DELFTship_Bkgrd_Images.pdf Part 3-DELFTship_Bkgrd_Images.pdf Part 4-DELFTship_Bkgrd_Images.pdf Part 5-DELFTship_Bkgrd_Images.pdf

It's all a bit intimidating right now, but rigging is the most daunting challenge.  At least I don't have to deal with that on the Dorry.

Add additional vertices to your pin group, or just bite the bullet and set up the ropes as collision objects - that's what I did.
I hate to say it, given that the rest of your model is so impressive, but to my eyes your sails are a bit of a let down. The textures and subsurface effects are good, but they don't behave like real sails.
 
Here's a few tips:
Make sure your sails are high poly (remember to use simple SS, not catmil-clark) and add the solidify mod after you run the simulations Run a different cloth simulation for each sail, or at the very least, apply the physics simulation at a different point on the timeline for each sail Animate the force field - real wind is not constant, changes both direction and speed. For extra realism, I added a low value to the verts in front of the bunt lines so that the sail billowed out around the lines somewhat. Note that this will require you model the ropes on each side independently (no more mirror mod, sadly, but the result is worth the extra effort. Finally, consider modelling the course sails as furled, Not only will this add to the realism, It also allows more of the actual ship to be seen in renders

thank you for the tips! I did try full sim on sails but it all got weird. sails would clip through ropes, or even stick to them like glued for no apparent reason... I'm aware that the sails are somewhat simplified affair but in all honesty that's the intention. as much as I would like to engage full cloth sim on everything I've decided to skip that step for the sake of my sanity . will try and make furled courses, though. the initial idea was to make three states for each sail: fully set, half furled and furled, so I could cover all sail deployment(?) scenarios. but, again, my sanity...
 
what actually halted my progress here is that I don't know where to squeeze the staysail between all these lines. full sim or not, I can't see how the sail actually fits there...
 
EDIT: by the way, when I was looking at your post on my phone I had to squint to really notice that your renders aren't photos. that blender gizmo in the upper right corner gave it away. great work!

What you are looking to do is properly called photogrammetry.
 
You will need multiple (if not dozens) of photos of the same subject to generate a model that would be anything close to useable.  Even with dozens of photos, there's a good chance you will have to go in and edit the model.
 
Photogrammetry (as well as 3d scanning) generate point clouds, which will usually get turned into a .STL file which is fine for your 3d printer and can be edited, but you will be using something like Blender to do the editing.  Converting it to a parametric file can be done, but it is often labor intensive and will probably require some re-work.
 
Good luck, and have fun in the rabbit holes!
 
Nathan

In the plan view, the outer line is the 'breadth line'. The inner line is the line of the top timber.

At the stern, the roundhouse deck is more or less flush with the rail, and is fully occupied by the tiller, which is operated by a cable run over a frame above the leading edge of the roundhouse, or potentially the position just forward of the roundhouse rail break.

The roundhouse form is largely decorative - the cabin is short and 'upright' with an overhanging deck and decorative canopy extended purely for aesthetic reasons, to mimic the appearance feasible with a 'working' form in a larger vessel.

As is usual with hullforms, the sides of the upper works are not included within the plan view - only the breadth line and the width of the topline. Just fair the top-timbers a needed to provide the tumblehome shown.

hello guys! main staysail is done...
 

Old thread, but nice to see, since I specialize in designing and 3D printing (resin) of US Nukes. 
 
Attached are a couple of shots of my latest work for a museum project; (a Sturgeon-class boat as well): USS Parche as she appeared in the early 80's in 1/72 scale.
 
Since the latter version of the ship, (extensively modified again in the early 90's) has a 100' extension forward of the sail, I'll re-use the aft portion, (minus the DSRV Simulator atop the aft escape trunk) and re-model the forward half of the boat. 
 
After weathering the lower hull, the sail and DSRV sim will be bonded to the hull and made ready to be mounted on 90 keel blocks, bonded to a base painted to resemble a concrete drydock basin. 
 
I also included a render of the 3D model in the wild.
 
  

Rather than continuing to clog up a thread on the features and foils of the DELFTship modeling software with my personal project, I decided to move the relevant posts regarding the project to a separate thread.
 
If Admins can move the original posts and responses to this thread, that would be appreciated. Otherwise, not a biggie.
 
The original posts can be found at the following links:
 
Hull against background plans.
 
Seven-bladed screw.
 
Stern Planes and Control Surfaces.
 
Follow-on progress will appear here.
 
Does this qualify for a "build log?" 🤔
 
Terry

Took a few hours this weekend to build the submarine rudders and the stern light.
 

 
The Sturgeon balanced rudders acted together on a single shaft. The lower rudder worked as a standard rudder when the ship was surfaced. Submerged, the upper rudder added twice the turning leverage. Let's just say that these SSNs were pretty nimble when submerged. At a flank bell, you had to hang on during the turn!
 
Sturgeons had a single, combination stern light housing. The lower enclosure provided the screening needed for the 135-degree stern light used underway. The upper lamp was the 360-degree aft anchor light. Both lamps were in pressure-proof globes rated to the ship's maximum operating depth. The light to be illuminated was selectable from inside the ship.
 

 
Terry
 
 

Continuing to work from aft to forward, today is the towed sonar array tube and faring.
 
The Sturgeons were already being constructed when the US submarine force received their towed arrays. These sonars were towed a long distance behind the ships to remove the receivers from the vicinity of the largest sound source in the area—the towing submarine itself. So the early towed array systems were add-ons for the Permit-, Sturgeon-, and the Los Angeles-classes. (The towed array systems for the Sea Wolfs and Virginias are totally internal.)
 
The handling gear for the array cable was installed in a forward ballast tank and the sonar array itself was stowed in a long tube that led to the stern planes. The "flushing tube" laid against the hull and was covered by a low fairing topside. The aft end of the tube had to extend far enough aft so that when the ship executed a sharp turn, the array wouldn't be cut off by the prop. (The Soviets solved this problem by putting their array and handling gear in a pod on top of the vertical stabilizer of the rudder.)
 
The sonar tube was called the "flushing tube" because the array was deployed and retracted by pumping water through it to "flush" the array out and lubricate its retraction.
 
The most difficult part of modeling this component was the topside flushing tube fairing, which twists in three dimensions as it lies along the hull.
 

Sturgeon Class Towed Array Flushing Tube and Support
 
 

Aft view of the Towed Array Flushing Tube
 

Towed Array Fairing
 
Modeled in DELFTship
 
Terry

Working on the escape trunks, now that the grandfather journals have been delivered to all the cousins and siblings...
 
The Sturgeons had two escape trunks. These acted like airlocks in spacecraft to allow emergency egress in case the boat was bottomed for some reason. The only difference is that there is high-pressure sea water outside instead of a vacuum.
 
Basically all US submarines following WW II had the capability to mate with the McCann rescue chamber. This required a flat surface surrounding the upper escape hatch fairing, which was equipped with a haul-down bale, external hatch operating gear, and, later, anchor points for the Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV) snubbers. The flat landing surface on the albacore/cylindrical hulls had to be faired into the hull shape.
 
So, I tried to illustrate all of these features in this model. The haul-down bale was actually attached to the emergency buoy cable, which was manually released from inside the ship. The buoy carried a cable to the surface of the ocean, to which the rescue device was attached by divers. The DSRVs used the cable to visually guide the vehicle to the stricken sub. The DSRV would mate to the hull above the hatch, then attach snubbers to the four rings to steady the vessel before blowing the skirt dry and entering the sub. In truth, this is a lot of surmising, since none of my boats ever went through a DSRV drill or deployment exercise.
 

Location of the fore and aft escape trunks. The forward trunk was in the bow compartment and the aft trunk was in the engineroom.
 

This is the forward escape trunk landing area. I had difficulty modeling these because I don't recall them being so prominent. But there were other things surrounding them like safety tracks, so perhaps they were.
 

The aft escape trunk.
 
Since the upper parts of the escape trunks and hatches were located within free-flooding areas and/or ballast tanks, there were a lot of other pieces of gear associated with them that couldn't be installed in way of the pressure hull. These included line lockers, the emergency buoy, retractable cleats, towing fairleads, hydraulic capstans, and so on. Given time, I may actually get to those.
 
Terry

CCClarke, please see my PM.
 
Terry

And yes, I know that is not Pandora  
 
Executive Summary
After deliberation, I am taking on the HMS Pandora as my next project. Pandora will be a digital build using multiple software packages, and will be optimized for printed artwork or film. The model will also be rigged for animation for use in film, though I myself do not plan on animating it.  
The model will be high-poly, and of high historical fidelity which is why it will be documented as comprehensively as possible here on the Model Ship World website. The targeted accuracy is a less than 1% deviation from any credible historical source across all conceivable metrics. This applies to all components modelled
 
About this Build Log
I think my biggest asset and greatest hope of completing Pandora is you – the MSW community and the overwhelming knowledge you guys (and gals) have of ship building. I received excellent feedback on all three of my previous builds, yet I am chronically at fault of two things, namely:
 
a.      Not seeking out advice when I have a question or run into issues during the build.       and…
b.      Not sticking to the topic or theme of the build log.  
The latter is especially bad. For example: with Confederacy, I began the build log as an actual step-by-step tutorial of 3D ship modelling in blender, then when that became unsustainable, I moved to posting screenshots of my progress accompanied by short update logs and upcoming tasks. Towards the end I didn’t even finish posts that were supposed to be a ‘part 1 of 2’ or something similar.
With my 3D longboat, I am proud to say that I have at least finished the project (gallery photos coming soon! No, really, I promise. Lol). However, I opened that topic thinking I would turn it into a showcase of how to correctly turn a single model into multiple boats in a 3D render and have them look convincing. But it turns out that doing just one was hard enough.
 
Fact is, I simply need more overall discipline in my work. And Pandora is going to be an absolute BEAST to model correctly. I don’t expect her to be perfect – that would be an impossible standard – but I do expect myself to be far more patient than in the past.
 
Framework
The theme and structure of this log will be simple: A 3D PANDORA build log. I will still talk at length about how I achieved certain results within the software and call out a few features by name, but I’m going to shy away from anything that is more step-by-step. Not guarding any trade secrets here, it’s just that as my skill has improved, so have the complexity of my workflows. At this point I fear my methods won’t be understood by anyone unless I make a video tutorial.
 
Most of this project will be done in Blender. The final product will be digital, and I find blender to be the best intermediary software between. However, as I’m intending this to be a comprehensive, historically accurate build, I will attempt to be ‘software agnostic’ especially in the early stages of the build. As far as my pre- and post-production needs are concerned, Adobe pretty much corners the market. And even within Blender, I’m making extensive use of 3rd party CAD addons that will allow blender to do 90% of what DelftShip does on the hull front.
 
Margin of Error
The allowable margin of error for this project is 1% across all metrics. This is not intended to shield me from mistakes. I will make plenty of mistakes along the way. When I do, call them/me out. Full stop. This is important, not only from an educational perspective, but because unchecked mistakes compound and in extreme cases can even break the project. Rather, this buffer will serve the inevitable reconciliation between imported plans. Even after hours removing distortion in a highly capable software like Photoshop, then further hours spent positioning the images in Blender, there will inevitably be things that won’t line up properly.
 
 
 
 
Excited to get into it with y'all. Stay tuned!!!
 


 

Tony,
 
You can get useful dimensional information from 2D photos, but you will have to combine all of the 2D information to make the 3D model.
 
First, al the dimensions in a picture are relative to all other dimensions. You may not know the actual dimensions in feet/meters, but you can calculate the relative dimensions of objects. I often work in CAD without defining any units of measurement. Everything is done in "drawing units." After the drawing is done I can set the relationship between drawing units and real world units and the drawing can be in feet, meters, furlongs, parsecs - whatever. So the actual dimensions are not necessary. You can build the entire model from relative dimensions gleaned from photos.
 
Others here have pointed out problems with 2D photos like view angle and distance. If the object in the photo is not exactly perpendicular to the line of sight more distant objects will be relatively small and closer objects proportionately larger. This will be the major problem in determining dimensions of objects in the photo. However, there are a few tricks you can use to overcome this issue.
 
Look for a "standard dimension" in the picture. For example, in most of the 20th century the US Navy had a standard life rail construction on almost all ships. The rails had three vertical bars spaced from the deck 15, 27 and 39 inches, with stanchion height of 42 inches. Since nearly all ships had life rails somewhere, if you have a photo of a US Navy ship from that period you have a built in vertical "ruler" to determine the height of other objects by comparison to the railings. I call this "photoguesstimation." However, the vertical spacing of the stanchions does not seem to be a standard dimension, but varies from place to place.
 
Another trick is to assume that similar structures have similar heights. Deck houses on a ship are usually the same height, or multiples of a common overhead height. Portholes are usually one size throughout the ship, and they can give relative height and length information. Vertical ladders are also vertical rulers. Doors are usually some standard size, although there may be several different sizes on a ship.
 
Remember that the designer and builder used some standard units of measurement (feet and inches, meters and centimeters, etc.). When you calculate a dimension and it comes out an odd fraction of a common unit, just round off to the nearest common unit. For example, I noticed that US warships of the mid 20th century were designed in multiples of 1/16 inch. So I just rounded off all photooguestimatios to the nearest 16th.
 
While you can't feed a 2D picture into a CAD program and have it generate a 3D model, you can derive a lot of information from the picture to allow you to make an approximation. If you do this from multiple 2D photos you may be able to determine dimensions for objects that are common to all the photos.

Hi Tony.
 
Here is my two cents (US), for what it is worth. (In this economy, that's not much!)
 
When using photos for such references, it seems that you would need to know at least the focal length (F/L) of the camera lens before even beginning the process you describe. Also, knowing the distance to object factors into this, which determines the angular relationships between objects in the view.
 
Then there is the matter of how these same factors display in the 3D software. For example, Blender allows the user to set the F/L of the viewport and cameras used for rendering the image. You can also set the camera-to-object distance in the program.
 
On the other hand, the perspective view in DELFTship has a fixed F/L that is not stated in the program. (You may be able to communicate with the D/S staff to find out what the program's effective F/L is.) And you have no idea what the viewing distance is to the object.
 
Then there is Sketchup, which I haven't used in many years, that provides both orthogonal and perspective views, but again, the F/L of the perspective view wasn't given (at least back when I was using it). I have no idea if this information is available in the 3D programs like Rhino, Fusion 360, or others used by members in this forum.
 
Another problem to deal with is the foreshortening of objects in the line of sight. Trying to estimate the breadth of the hull at various points along the rail, for example, using a more-or-less broadside view of the vessel would be extremely problematic, if not impossible. The best you could arrive at would be a very rough guess.
 
I've had more than two decades of experience with this kind of frustration using 120-year-old photos of the brigantine Galilee to reconstruct the ship's plans. I have a treasure trove of more than 60 photos of the ship. But trying to conduct photogrammetry to obtain accurate dimensions of various structures has been extremely difficult, for the reasons stated above. Just trying to determine the list of the ship in broadside views turned out to be mostly a very rough guess. Thankfully, I had a reasonable (but not accurate) set of hull plans to start with, from which I was able to make the dimensional adjustments to conform to the photos.
 
Without some sort of baseline dimensions to work with, what you propose would be fruitless, I'm afraid. Perhaps the photographic experts here on this site may be able to weigh in on this topic.
 
Terry

Hello from the Great White North (yes we just got our first big snow of the season) of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. I had hoped to have received my second sail ship (first was the Golden Hind) but first real challenging build by now, but it is late in delivery and now longer due to a new postal strike. Grrrr. The ship ordered is one I have wanted for a number of years now is the Heller 1/100 scale le soleil royal. I wanted to do a wood build but I decided to start small and do a plastic model with some modifications. Being retired now for 11 years I have the time and a room to do it in without the wife always saying “clean up your mess”.
I plan on making it similar to John Otts version but with a slight difference. I ordered a pair of books on rigging from amazon which should be here tomorrow but meanwhile I am going to work on something else to pass the time.
 
I want to man/crew the ship but have looked all over the internet etc for figures, figures not just to match up with a sailing ship but a ship of the SRs time period without too much modification and to scale….but alas no such luck.
 
I am a bit of an artist and did some sculptures years ago in art college, so I am thinking, why not sculpt some figures from pictures, scan them, and then print them off on a 3D printer.
I will make several figures ranging from Admiral Tourville, a few officers, powder monkeys, and different gun crews both in action and at rest. Included will be crew members on deck and up in the rigging….or on the “head?”. 
Here is a question for those in the know….. did the french ships in 17th century have a company of “french marines” for things like defensive action and boardings?  Since I will be using soft modeling clay I will be able to twist most of the figures into different poses between scans. Saves on making 50 different figures, and not most in the same pose.
 

Hi Robska,
 
I am not familiar with 18th century northern European ship plans and drafting conventions, but the first questions that occurred to me after examining the drawing were:
Are the station lines drawn at the outside or inside of the hull planks? What are the units used in the dimensions shown on the drawing? Before getting too far into drafting in Blender, you may want to validate the shape of your ship's hull based on the plans you have by using DELFTship Free. Unlike other 3D drafting programs, it is first and foremost a naval architectural program that includes a number of tools for displaying station, buttock, diagonal, and waterlines, and for checking hull fairness. Its learning curve is fairly steep, but nowhere near as steep as Blender's. And when you have a hull you are satisfied with, you can import it into Blender to do the detailed structures and texturing (which are really hard to do in DELFTship). A number of us here on MSW are familiar with DELFTship and can help you if you get stuck.
 
Will be looking forward to your progress on this vessel!
 
Terry