vossy

never imagined this question would get this much airplay and debate. but I thank you all very much for your input into what appears to be a somewhat curious poser by me.
 
Chris
 

Looking really good Dave. Its weird that they would make two sections that are supposed to fit flush together but one is straight and the other curved. Anyway I think the skirting board approach solves this well. Don't know why the top is removable if its not a RC model. Perhaps to add interior effects like furniture or even lighting?
 
If I can source 1:50 scale period figures and furniture of the time frame for my boat (1870 - 1920), I am really keen on the idea of adding those. Given mine isn't a real vessel, I want to glam it up a bit. Been the devil's own job finding anything in that scale though.
 
Looking forward to your next instalment.
 
Chris
 

Added the skirting board, and gave it a curved shape to fill the gap.  Works well.  And the structure is still removable!
 
I forgot to mention that I gritted my teeth and used the acetate for windows on this structure, and it reminded me of how much I really dislike working with that stuff around glue.  In fact, the yellow "shutters" you can see on the curved window on the right are there to hide "glue mess".  I think I'll try to find some thin lucite to have around.
 
Regards,
David

Whoops! something went amiss there! lol
 
was going to say, I really like the way you have reversed the deck patterns. looks great.
 
regarding the spiral staircase; is there anyway you can remove them at this stage? I reckon you might be able to build them up by adding a step or platform at the base of each case. if it is not a regular shape or angle, you could probably hide it somewhat with some well placed hay bails, buckets etc.
 
I reckon this wouldn't stand out as much as the angled entrance way to the first deck.
 
Chris
 

never imagined this question would get this much airplay and debate. but I thank you all very much for your input into what appears to be a somewhat curious poser by me.
 
Chris
 

never imagined this question would get this much airplay and debate. but I thank you all very much for your input into what appears to be a somewhat curious poser by me.
 
Chris
 

Finished the third deck and mounted it on the boat.  I oriented the herringbone so that it runs in the opposite direction on the outside bands from the deck below.  Thought that would be more interesting.  On the side view, you can also see the drive rods on the paddlewheel.
 
Regards,
David

never imagined this question would get this much airplay and debate. but I thank you all very much for your input into what appears to be a somewhat curious poser by me.
 
Chris
 

Chris:
 
I had another idea about how to get the curved stairs to come up to the second deck.  When you assemble the stairs, you glue one tread above the other, and when it's done right in terms of length, there is very little common surface area between the two treads.  It occurs to me that this might cause a very slight "droop" in the angle of the treads relative to each other, and therefore shorten the rise.  The fix (and it would be very doable with this kit as is) is to sight each tread assembly while gluing and make sure that the treads are at least precisely level relative to each other, and perhaps slightly (very slightly) canted up.  I can't tell now with the stairs mounted if mine had any "droop", but I suspect so -- but it would be so minor that you wouldn't see it unless you are looking for it.  Over the 13 treads, that could result in the one tread height drop that I got.
 
Regards,
David

Hey Dave, yeah just doesn't look right to me. at some point I will get this kit and try to work out a solution whereby the staircase meets the fist deck flush.
 
You could always try to camouflage it a bit on the finished build if you are unhappy with it. maybe a well placed banner of some string of lights etc?
 
Chris
 

Thanks guys. Any clue on what hue/variation of red was most commonly used? would it have varied within location and availability of colours?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Hi all, it seems to me that most colour pictures and models depict the paddle wheels of these vessels to be in various shades of red. Would this have been true in actuality? Also, if it is true would it have been the colour used to signal danger? i.e. don't go near this wheel etc? Would that be the main reason they all seem to be red?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Chris:
 
I fretted over that when I dry-fitted the staircases.  They are just one step height short of ending flush under the second deck.  I considered elevating them with a sort of platform on deck 1, but then looking at the finished model, it seemed to me that the part where the staircases meet the first deck will be more visible than the part where they meet the second deck.  I may be wrong about that -- but I opted to have that first deck join look normal.
 
The angle is OK -- on one of mine, the way the stair rail twisted around left it angled in just a bit.  I think if they were elevated to come up to the second deck, the angle might look OK.
 
I'm glad (sort of) to hear that it's not just me.  It would initially seem that it would be an easy fix for AL to just add one more straight step -- but . . . those are in one of the laser cut panels, and the railings would have to be lengthened, and they are laser cut as well.  So not an easy fix for AL.
 
The plans and the instruction booklet pictures show the stairs coming up so that the top step fits flush under the second deck, effectively making the second deck the last step going up.  The rails line up with the second deck railing.  That won't happen on mine.
 
What might cause it is the bowing of the second deck when attached to the engine and boiler rooms.  I assumed that was what was intended and so glued it down with a fore-to-aft slight curve.  That could cause the bow section of deck #2 to lift up just enough to cause the issue.  That is probably not intended, but it's likely what caused me to have to add the skirting board you suggested. 
 
The next modeler to tackle this kit could instead glue on deck #2 without pushing the center down, and then dress the gaps in the join with the engine and boiler rooms with a molding.  Or, sand down the fore and aft sections of the first deck structures to remove the bowing of the second deck.  Either of those would seem to be the fix for this as I think about it.  But you'd need to know that in advance, as the picture on the box suggests a slight curve.
 
Regards,
David

Looks really great Dave. My one question, and I have seen this model done a few times, is, does it look/seem odd how the staircases seem to finish at an odd angle and halfway up where they meet the first deck?
 
It doesn't seem quite right to me. As I said I have seen this vessel done a few times and all seem the same way, so I'm guessing that's what the plans call for? it just looks plain wrong to me. 
 
is there anyway with this kit that they could be made to sit flush with the deck?
 
Chris
 

As geochemist I always try to dig deeper into these things ... Red is used here in Europe too to paint whole houses or the timbers of half-timbered houses. Particularly the country-houses of Sweden in some regions are known for this. The colour there is known as Falu Röd = the Red from Falun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falu_red). Falun was one of the big copper-ore producers since the Middle Ages or even before. Apparently, the pigment is derived from the tailings of copper-ore processing and contains finely dispersed iron-oxides, mixed with accesories, such as copper- and zinc-compounds, perhaps also some aluminium-compounds.
The hue of these iron-oxide based pigments depends on the amount of water in the crystal assembledge and, hence, on the amount of firing. Higher temperatures of firing turn yellow ochre into more reddish to brownish ochres. As noted above, the type of binders and fillers further allow to modify the hues.
Unlike these mineral iron-oxyhidroxide pigments that were cheap and are stable in the light, most organic red dyes were expensive and are not so stable.

I did some research on American paint history, and came up with this narrative. Commercial paints really didn't come onto the market in a widespread fashion until the late 19th century. Before that, paints were hand-mixed (such as on a farm) or at least made in smaller batches locally using grinders. Red was commonly made from a base of linseed oil (produced from flax, a common farm crop), which had an orange tinge. To this was added milk for texture and iron oxide to deepen the color. As a geologist, I agree with Wefalck that iron tends to produce an orange-red rather than a deep brown-red.
 
Several American paint companies offer "historic" collections that were developed with the help of various preservation trusts and other organizations. For example, this collection from Benjamin Moore is supposedly based on 17th-early 20th century colors (i.e. before modern paint chemistry). I was immediately struck by the fact that all of the red shades in this collection do, indeed, have an orange tinge to my eye that fits the narrative about linseed oil and iron oxide. My guess is that their "Audubon Russet" or "Mayflower Red" might be good matches for steamboat red.
 
Given that the vast majority of riverboats in middle America were built on the upper Ohio River, close to extensive sources of iron in the mountains to the east and south as well as extensive sources of milk and flax in the farmlands to the north and west, it makes sense that steamboat red would have followed this palette. But I'm just theorizing based on internet research here, I'm no expert in this regard.
 
EDIT: Mrs. Cathead just asked what I was researching, and pointed out that we have linseed oil, milk (from our dairy goats), and iron oxide (from our bedrock and soils as well as, you know, farm rust) on hand. I may just have to play with mixing up a small batch of "historic" paint to see what I can produce. It'd be pretty neat to color my Arabia with a historically accurate stain.

Pigments and dyes in a maritime (or nearly so on inland waterways) are always interesting subjects. What was the pigment on New England buildings ? Iron oxide tends to be more yellowish/brownish, rather than bright red as a pigment. The filler in the paint may also change the hue, as would indeed the surface the paint would have been applied to. Any idea about the actual pigments and their sources in the Midwest ?

I would go with a flat barn red or oxide red - same color just different names depending on your source.   Any shade of the oxide red would be good.  Applied over a white primer it will be lighter and over a black primer it would be darker.  No primer - neutral. Absolutely no gloss paint.
Kurt

Hey this is looking really nice David. Great work. Here is a pic of my Mississippi 1:50 Sergal kit with painted hull. Hope you don't mind me dropping them here?
 
Chris
 
 
 

Wheel looks great Dave. What actual colour red is it? Also love the different natural wood colours in the close up pics. Bet it looks even better in person!
 
Chris
 

Thanks guys. Any clue on what hue/variation of red was most commonly used? would it have varied within location and availability of colours?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Thanks guys. Any clue on what hue/variation of red was most commonly used? would it have varied within location and availability of colours?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Thanks guys. Any clue on what hue/variation of red was most commonly used? would it have varied within location and availability of colours?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Hi all, it seems to me that most colour pictures and models depict the paddle wheels of these vessels to be in various shades of red. Would this have been true in actuality? Also, if it is true would it have been the colour used to signal danger? i.e. don't go near this wheel etc? Would that be the main reason they all seem to be red?
 
Thanks
 
Chris
 

Paddle wheel now done and mounted on the boat.
 
Regards,
David