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    Ancient greek ships

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  1. Yes Steven I came on it when I was building my Drakar... the kit of amati hat a chain for the anchor... so I have looked it up. Still I have found out that the vikings used a rope tide on the chain which was attached on the anchor. Christos
  2. Yes you are right. Remember I had mentioned that in my earlier post. Chain is definitely not out of question, I agree. Vikings are an evidence of the use of chains for anchoring. And is well known , that they were at those days, --after the 941 disastrous attack on Constantinople by Rus- part of the Imperial Guard, or the guard it self, as they arrived to Konstantinoupolis with their Drakars through the russian rivers. But still the problem remains hard to solve.
  3. They dont just look good... they look and are outstanding byzantine design iron work anchors!
  4. Steven, I have mentioned it again. This is a post stamp edition from the Greek post office, of model ships, by E.Grypiotes. There is a Δρόμων which the historical authenticity is much doubted... still look how he describes in his list the anchor, item nr8. It has a rope, where in an another of his models (of a previous historical time), a Hellinistic πολυήρης of the 4th century, has a chain. There is also a text, describing among other things the anchors, making a reference of Constantinus Porfyrogenitus script. Talking about the rope which held them (the anchors), of which there is also English text given in the book it self.
  5. Παλαστή, παλαιστρή, palaistra/ai= 74.8 mm (ancient greek -equals 4 daktyloi/ δακτυλοι). It was also called δώρον. Its an anthropometric unit, it refers to the hand span (the small one), the palm... still its not the open one, the big one, as spithami. σπιθαμή/αι spithami/ai equals 18cm its an anthropometric unit again... it refers to the open span, the big one, see picture below. We still use today the word σπιθαμή... its a modern greek word... of course we use it arbitrary... its not a measurement unit anymore, either the imperial unit system, we have the MKS since 1960 as we had stopped being a British Crown Colony. If you need anything on the ancient greek units just tell me... its been a long time since I was having ancient greek in gymnasium, but my wife keeps still my son's school books ( he is 31 now) lol lol.
  6. Now I get your point! That wasthe catch all the time! Tough... really tough. And Dr Damianides writes -as you already know- no anchors and no rigging was found in most wrecks because they were sunk on purpose! So your issue seems to remain unsolved deu to lack on hard evidence. You are right..."further and further into the unknown". Yes correct indeed!
  7. Steven have a look at what I found in one of my greek books. Its an artistic interpretation of a wreck in Serce Limani found 1973 from INA of Texas A&M University. According to the author Dr Damianides, it was a small comercial ship of the 11th century 15 m long. 20% of that ship was recovered. Look the anchor... its the iron anchor you have already prepared and it seems to have a rope. I dont know how much of use is that to you. I though it want hurt posting it to you.
  8. Ps. "Killick" it was allready a well known art in Homeric era of binding a stone on the anchor in order to help holding it down.
  9. Steven your most dialectical thoughts made me go in my Homeric naval dictionary and look up for the word σιδηροβόλο. But still could not find anything. I also had a look at the Theodosious Harbour wreck indexes, searching for anchors or chains. Again there wasnt anything much. Though stones and stone anchors were mentioned. Perhaps that solved the holding down of the anchor. What chains concerned, we still know that chains did exist. The bay or harbour was closing by a chain. Chain in greek is αλυσίδα, in the middle alter called άλυσος, of which in connection with anchoring, I could not find any mentions. Lack of Hard evidence is a problem. Surely is a long shot just to say, If the Vikings did used chains for their anchors, why not the byzantines as well? Its a hard issue what you got there. Still through my last post, based only on the linguistic aspect, I remain loyal to the theory that the anchors were iron made and they had fibre ropes and not chains. Christos
  10. Steven if I may add to this conversation, according to the linguistic point of view. Sidirobola written in greek σιδηροβόλα, its a combination of two words: σίδηρος=iron and βολή=shot from the verb βάλλω thst can mean both, shoot or thrown. You can take another example. πυροβόλο = greek word for gun, thats again a combi from πυρ=fire and again βολή.... that is shooting fire. Or πολυβόλο the greek word for machine gun thats πολύ=multiple and again βολή. Αεροβόλο air gun, αέρας= air, etc etc. Schoinia (σχοινιά) is definitely rope.No other interpretation can be possible to that. Etymology roots back to plant fibers, the wire ropes are called συρματoσχοινια σύρμα=wire. So schoinia siderobola means in my opinion ropes with which iron (iron anchors) were shooted (thrown). Christos
  11. Excellent model Gregory, congratulations!
  12. Happy new year Tom, happy ship building in your great new shipyard! Looking forward for your new work. Christos
  13. @mtaylor Yes.... its as in the monograph. As I mentioned above, the ilustration is out of Emmanuel de Fontainieu book, which I very much respect.
  14. @Spike1947 I agree Richard.The scale is too small. Sadly I have decided more than a few times, ideas and items I had in mind to add to my model, not to do so, due to the size of the scale... even by the rigging of the cannons, I have compromised, instead of a proper cannons rigging, to that "symbolic" just one single rope, that the kit's instructions suggest. @mtaylorYes you are definitely correct about the walkway... so it was. The above illustration maybe is a little confusing, showing the walkway lifted up, in order to reveal the cannons on the cannon deck, while in reality its (the walkway)actually, as you mentioned, blending with the fore and aft decking. This illustration I believe shows it clearer.

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