Keith Black

My wife and I lived in Egegik, Alaska for nine years. In fact, my wife is 50% Aleut (she was raised in Michigan), her mother was born in Egegik. We were winter watchman for one of the salmon canneries and both of us worked in the canneries during the summer but one summer I had the opportunity to go fishing. We always had salmon and at times salmon was supplemented in recipes calling for beef. The long and short of it is, neither of us ever lost our appetite for salmon and still enjoy canned or frozen salmon to this day.  

My wife and I lived in Egegik, Alaska for nine years. In fact, my wife is 50% Aleut (she was raised in Michigan), her mother was born in Egegik. We were winter watchman for one of the salmon canneries and both of us worked in the canneries during the summer but one summer I had the opportunity to go fishing. We always had salmon and at times salmon was supplemented in recipes calling for beef. The long and short of it is, neither of us ever lost our appetite for salmon and still enjoy canned or frozen salmon to this day.  

Thanks, @Kenchington, lacking much nautical experience myself there's a lot that I'm still learning, and it's wonderful to be able to benefit from the knowledge of others. I hadn't considered that about the plumb vs raked bow's suitability for different conditions, but what you say makes a lot of sense. I had been considering trying to pare back the top of the stem a bit and doing away with the gammon to get more of a plumb bow, but I think that doing so will throw off the lines of the hull a bit too much. Besides, much like those fishermen, I have to admit that the clipper bow looks quite nice, and I don't think I'll be modeling anything with one anytime soon, so I think I'll keep the kit design for the bow after all.
 
This also makes a lot of sense. Incidentally, Chapelle also mentions that there were some of the larger lapstrake-planked centerboarders with this type of hull design were rigged as schooners. I found a photo of one such vessel from the 1870s in Rockland, Maine, below, which I estimate around 30-32 feet in length. Incidentally, it looks to have a gammon at the bow. I think I'm on fairly firm ground, then, to try and build my model with lapstrake planking and the clipper bow.

Source: https://penobscotmarinemuseum.historyit.com/items/view/digital-collection/193711/search?resultsMode=search&searchInterfaceId=1&search=eyJxIjp7InNmMTI3IjoibGFwc3RyYWtlIn0sIm9iIjoic2NvcmUiLCJvIjoiZGVzYyIsInBzIjoyNCwidiI6ImdyaWQiLCJyY2kiOjAsInNzZiI6MCwicHJlIjoxLCJpcCI6MSwicmEiOltdLCJ2aWV3TW9kZSI6ImdyaWQiLCJwZyI6MX0=
 
Your point about fishermen's pride in their boat and interest in decorating them is also very well taken. It reminds me of what I saw while researching and building my Canoa de Rancho model. These were extremely utilitarian boats. But it was still possible to see some decorative elements or other aspects showing their owners' pride in the vessels. This was most obvious in the names given to them--I'm particularly thinking of one small, open vessel, a little rowboat no more than 15 feet long, with the name "The Whale" (La Bayena [sic]) grandly written in large letters across the bow. But some (though a minority) also had aesthetically pleasing shapes carved into the supports running under the aft portion of the wide rail/poling platform along the sides of the boat, with no apparent functional purpose. Or one photograph where they raised up the peaked roof on top of some very elegant balustrades, presumably originally intended for use on a building but repurposed, probably both because they were available and because the owner liked the way it looked (if he didn't, he could have easily just used ordinary lumber for the same end).
 
What an experience! I have to ask, can you still eat salmon today? I had a friend who, in high school, worked one summer in an Alaska salmon cannery. He wanted nothing to do with salmon for a long time afterward.
 
Very minor progress on the model, I've planked the fore end of the aft cockpit seat. Once the glue fully cures, I'll be able to sand the top smooth and plank the seat itself.

Having commercial fished (Alaskan Salmon) you wear catch slime the whole time you're out. You eat and sleep with their smell stuck to every part of your body. You're so tired when you do get a chance to sleep it wouldn't matter if you were cuddled up next to em or if they were in a hold ten feet away.  

Good morning.
On a traditional manual lathe.

Amalio, very nice turning job you have done there with the cannons.
Did you just use your regular lathe or did you use cnc in order to get them all equal?

Having commercial fished (Alaskan Salmon) you wear catch slime the whole time you're out. You eat and sleep with their smell stuck to every part of your body. You're so tired when you do get a chance to sleep it wouldn't matter if you were cuddled up next to em or if they were in a hold ten feet away.  

Having commercial fished (Alaskan Salmon) you wear catch slime the whole time you're out. You eat and sleep with their smell stuck to every part of your body. You're so tired when you do get a chance to sleep it wouldn't matter if you were cuddled up next to em or if they were in a hold ten feet away.  

Hello Julie,
Am enjoying your work as you come at this sort of project with a unique background and diverse skill sets.  I find it very interesting and refreshing.
Had never considered using hide glue on my model.  Personally, I use a variety of adhesives but mostly 5-minute epoxy and some CA.  I have used hide glue for decades on various restoration projects, primarily veneering.  For sure it has many advantages, but convenience is not one of them.  I'm curious how the hide glue works for you in ship modeling.
Keep up the fine work!
Ron

One thing to understand is that, although the men in corporate boardrooms of ship-owning companies may only care about utility, those who work on the water are motivated by the same suite of urges that drive the yachting fraternity-- even though most would hate to admit it. Of course, it is essential on the commercial side to bring in more than the outgoings (whereas the reverse is true of the recreational side) but there's the same pride in the boat, the same wish to display the superiority of the boat to outside observers, the same desire for comfort in so far as that can be afforded and so on. Hence, I suspect that the prominent gammon knee that forms the "clipper" stem profile of a Friendship sloop was always primarily decorative.
 
That aside, the forward rake of the Friendship's stem (in contrast to the plum stem of smaller boats on Muscongus Bay) went with a lot of flare well forward. That will have helped the bow rise to waves, hence suiting a sloop to winter lobstering, in worse weather and further from shore than the summer fishery. (There are boat types that have the flare without the rake but it's not an easy shape to plank.) However, there's fashion and appearance there too. A man who could only afford a sloop for lobstering still wanted a boat that looked like the great Gloucester schooners -- much as a man who drives a Ford would prefer one that looks like a BMW or a Jaguar. That's the way we human males are 😎
 
The choice between lapstrake and carvel is a whole lot murkier. All else being equal, lapstrake is probably lighter, so easier to haul ashore in places where that is advantageous. However, fitting watertight bulkheads is much easier in a carvel hull, while the strength of a lapstrake hull is more badly affected by cutting holes in the planks. So a desire to have a live well would encourage the choice of carvel. But my guess is that there were two alternatives, each complete to itself. They needed different types and sizes of lumber, with different costs, different skills in the boatyard, different labour demands (lots of hours needed to clench all the nails in a big lapstrake hull), different maintenance (no need for a man to re-caulk his lapstrake boat) and so on. The optimum balance amongst all those encouraged carvel for larger hulls, lapstrake for smaller, with the critical size decreasing through time -- partly as relative costs changed, partly as fashions and expectations shifted. The Muscongus Bay sloops of the later 19th Century seem to have lain near the break-point for their time and place, so that personal preference could push the choice one way or the other.
 
If that's complicated, what do we make of the boat types that had part-lapstrake, part-carvel construction? The English even had some early steam tugs with that duality. Weird!
 
Trevor

Good catch, I had forgotten about that! Looks like it's in Goode's fisheries report, on page 670 here: https://archive.org/details/fisheriesfishery52goodrich/fisheriesfishery52goodrich/page/670/mode/2up
 
That certainly sounds profoundly uncomfortable, being stuck in a cuddy with a bunch of lobster.
 
On the theme of variations among Muscongus Bay vessels, it seems like the Penobscot Marine Museum has digitized some more photos since I last checked, including several of smaller craft. The one below is interesting in that it seems to be lapstrake planked, at least judging by the fairly prominent strake lines.

Source: https://penobscotmarinemuseum.historyit.com/items/view/digital-collection/203749/search?resultsMode=search&searchInterfaceId=1&search=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
 
The vessels below, meanwhile, are larger, but also lack the clipper bow. It's hard to tell whether they are centerboarders or not.

Source: https://penobscotmarinemuseum.historyit.com/items/view/digital-collection/372136/search?resultsMode=search&searchInterfaceId=1&search=eyJycSI6WyI4NjM5Il0sImlwIjoxLCJvYiI6InNjb3JlIiwibyI6ImRlc2MiLCJwcyI6MjQsInYiOiJncmlkIiwicmNpIjoxLCJzc2YiOjEsInByZSI6dHJ1ZSwicmEiOltdLCJwZyI6OCwidmlld01vZGUiOiJncmlkIiwiZmFjZXRTdGF0ZSI6ImVKeE5qa0VMd2pBTWhmOUx6cnVJSUxOSEQ1UGRGSS9pb2JaeEJMcTFKcTB3eHY2N1ladmdLUy92NVh0a2d2NkdBVjJtT01ocGJLekQzQkFHRDJhYUsrZzNJMlRrZGtnbC85dG5qaVhKaXFNQzk4Y3Z1ZGdPWlR0dEI4cGt3OXFCL2xxUVI0MkEzMHBBZmRnZlFUbEtZSFlWeENjWUVCY1pRUmZWSHNXcFROcDJyT0NqVHNmazFXRkhDeUh5V21aU3hHUXVxSkZkZjBrZG1IcWV2OVRzU2FzPSJ9
 
Finally, the photo below shows a a contrast between the larger, clipper-bowed Friendship sloop at right, and the smaller, plumb-bowed vessels at left.

Source: https://penobscotmarinemuseum.historyit.com/items/view/digital-collection/192568/search?resultsMode=search&searchInterfaceId=1&search=eyJxIjp7InNmMTI3Ijoic2xvb3AiLCJkYXRlIjp7InN0YXJ0IjoiMTkwNS0wMS0wMVQwMDowMDowMFoiLCJlbmQiOiIxOTA1LTEyLTMxVDExOjU5OjU5WiIsIm9wZXJhdG9yIjoiaW50ZXJzZWN0aW5nIn19LCJwZyI6MCwib2IiOiJzY29yZSIsIm8iOiJkZXNjIiwicHMiOjI0LCJ2IjoiZ3JpZCIsInJjaSI6MCwic3NmIjowLCJwcmUiOjEsImlwIjoxLCJyYSI6W10sImV4Ijp7ImRhdGUiOjF9LCJ2aWV3TW9kZSI6ImdyaWQifQ==
 
 

All excellent points! Some degree of abstraction is necessary for understanding, but some categories contain more variation than others. For the various vessels classified as "Muscongus Bay Sloops," it would be great to have more information about the rationale behind different design choices. Why lapstrake vs caravel planking, why a plumb bow vs a clipper bow, etc. Some of these we can guess at: obviously, the size depends on the resources and purpose of the person who ordered the boat, smaller vessels are better suited for closer inshore work, and smaller means less space for a cuddy or fish well. Others are less clear to me: why lapstrake vs caravel planking, for instance--a matter of cost? builders' tradition? would one style be better suited for some sizes?--or why a plumb bow vs a clipper bow (I suppose a clipper bow might look a bit silly on a very small vessel, but I don't know what the minimum size would be).

OK: I stand corrected! 
 
Not what I would have expected, but I clearly need to re-read Chapelle before posting.
 
Was it he or one of the US Fish Commission authors who said something about the cuddy being heated in winter -- not for the comfort of the fishermen but to keep the lobsters from freezing? I'd not want to share my living space with the catch but if that was the only way to earn a living in the fishery, men had to do what they had to do.
 
 
Trevor

Well, well, Some Idea! Lovely joinery - especially those dovetail joints. 
 
What kind of drawing mentorship are you looking for? You seem to be doing quite well already.

A masterclass in model ship construction.

What a nasty surprise, Trevor! Has that made you want to check all the walls on the house now? I truly hope that was the only one.

You are the master of paper builds, Phil!

Thank you to everyone for the comments and likes. 
 
 I'm starting on unknown port side items. 
 
We know the boat had a generator because of the lights. I'm going to make my life easier by electrifying the stocker and the water pump. The single phase generator is enclosed in the port side area of the engine room and will not be seen.  
 
 I was able to find images of a pump and motor for the stoker. The motor for the pump will be generic from the time period. You guys know the drill, it's time to pull out the bit boxes. 
 
 
 This a Leland motor. 

 
This is a heavy duty Myers pump. I really like the looks of this pump, it looks like it fits the time period and the boat. I can't wait to try making this jewel.

 
 The water tank on top of the port side engine will be a three foot high by five foot diameter tank holding 440 gallows and weighing 3,500 pounds. The pump will pump into the tank and the tank will gravity feed the boiler. 
 
 Thank you for your support.
 
    Keith

Alan and Mark,
  Thank you very much!  Paper/card has become my favorite base medium to work in for ships!
 
I have assembled the two torpedo/attack boats:


They were pretty involved and still need painted/sealed.
 
I am displaying them with the masts and flagpoles laid down as I imagine they would have been stored since they will sit in cradles.

I have two mine boats to make and that’s it for the motor launches.
 
Then I have eight rowed boats to make.
 

I have two fiddle blocks and 3 singles  left on the foremast,  then the blocking is done..
A couple  of jigs were made for the deadeyes , an upper and a lower, the lower is spaced at 15 mm and the upper is spaced at 12 mm
 

one of the first things I did was put the Bowsprit mast away for save keeping, rembering how many times I broke the Bowsprit mast on my Dutchess of Kingston .
   I am attempting to add chains to my capstan,  I read somewhere, (words I seldom  say lol), about these pins that hold the poles on when turning,  I used an eye hook for  the center and a pin nail for the outer. Three links of chain was added to connect the two. Not sure if I will go with this idea, might just fill the holes and paint it if I don't like it.. That will be decided latter in the build.

I served 20 feet of line to 1mm - 1.1 mm for the lower shrouds  on the foremast  and  main mast, this wont be enough to finish, but it is a good start.. The Mizzen mast is rigged  at .75 mm, Also a few stays are .75mm as well so I will serve up some 75mm  latter today
Last night I started cranking  the sevring machine and said this will take for me forever , so I hooked up my cordless  drill and in 90 minutes  i had 20 feet of 1.o mm line ready for shrouds.  After it was served I soaked it in Mog pog , then hung to dry.
  so with that, I am going to set up the serving machine and make  some more Lines, .75mm and some 1.3 mm, after I figure out how much of each I will need.  I never serv anything  smaller than .75 mm , in my opinion  serving .50 mm line is to much time spent on something you cant really tell you did. I can tell you adding the drill to the sever was a good idea, lol I only hope it does not fly apart using the drill lol.
 

A lot of time severing lines and tieing  shrouds are on the horizon,  a most enjoyable task. It gets even better  @Moonbug has told me that there is 874 clove hitches to tie,  I hope that is for one side lol. I love ratlines.
Well that's my story so far, we have lots of outside interferences so progress will slow for a couple of weeks, winter is coming  so I be able to go full time soon . 😀 
 Thanks for looking in on my Pegasus build,off to do some speed serving lol.
Knocklouder 😁 

 
 

Thank you to everyone for the comments and likes. 
 
 I'm starting on unknown port side items. 
 
We know the boat had a generator because of the lights. I'm going to make my life easier by electrifying the stocker and the water pump. The single phase generator is enclosed in the port side area of the engine room and will not be seen.  
 
 I was able to find images of a pump and motor for the stoker. The motor for the pump will be generic from the time period. You guys know the drill, it's time to pull out the bit boxes. 
 
 
 This a Leland motor. 

 
This is a heavy duty Myers pump. I really like the looks of this pump, it looks like it fits the time period and the boat. I can't wait to try making this jewel.

 
 The water tank on top of the port side engine will be a three foot high by five foot diameter tank holding 440 gallows and weighing 3,500 pounds. The pump will pump into the tank and the tank will gravity feed the boiler. 
 
 Thank you for your support.
 
    Keith

I use the narrower chisel blades as well. They're great for making the cuts for window openings when a #17 or #18 is too long. I think once you start using the chisel blades you'll notice a significant decline in how much you use a #11. Don't get me wrong, #11's have their place and at times nothing else will work as well as they do. 

Thank you to everyone for the comments and likes. 
 
 I'm starting on unknown port side items. 
 
We know the boat had a generator because of the lights. I'm going to make my life easier by electrifying the stocker and the water pump. The single phase generator is enclosed in the port side area of the engine room and will not be seen.  
 
 I was able to find images of a pump and motor for the stoker. The motor for the pump will be generic from the time period. You guys know the drill, it's time to pull out the bit boxes. 
 
 
 This a Leland motor. 

 
This is a heavy duty Myers pump. I really like the looks of this pump, it looks like it fits the time period and the boat. I can't wait to try making this jewel.

 
 The water tank on top of the port side engine will be a three foot high by five foot diameter tank holding 440 gallows and weighing 3,500 pounds. The pump will pump into the tank and the tank will gravity feed the boiler. 
 
 Thank you for your support.
 
    Keith

Setting up the workspace in preparation for gluing.
 

 
My preference is for using traditional hot hide glue.   On the Mechanical Music and pipe organ forums,  glue is a sordid topic, what was known as the 'glue wars.'   The short of it is that in the 1970s restorers started using the PVA and PVC glues.  Several companies went out of business as the resulting instruments were seen a ruined due to early failures.  Hide glues have been around for centuries they have known lasting properties.  One is that with heat and moisture they are for the most part reversible.  They are also easy to clean.  Usually only minimal clamping is needed.  After a few moments the glue forms what some call a death grip.
 
The main disadvantage is that due to the organic nature, It has a distinctive smell.  Basically it is expired gelatin.   Add sugar and you get gumi bears, which do actually work pretty good as a glue substitute.  Gumi candy also makes great printing transfer rollers.
 
I personally have nothing against CA glues.  I use them a lot in other things.  I find though that it tends to not have much torsional strength.  One can usually break the bond by twisting.  Resin glues and epoxies have their place as well.
 
Since I am working with century old wood I figured to stay traditional.  It is what I am used to working with.
 
So here is the first part glued.
 

 
And the second ...
 

 
The first part is about the size of a toothpick.  I was able to trace over the plans. which only show a couple of cross sections.  This was used to create the beams for the upper deck,  Which I think is the one called a forecastle but never pronounced that way.  It looks like this is around station 3.
 

 
For some reason the plans show a hawse pipe.  The photographs actually have a large rectangular opening, which I think is what they call a scupper.  I noticed on the C. A. Thayer, these were a series of holes at the deck level.  The Commerce, does have this haws pipe structure around station 3.  I think these holes were also used for the mooring lines to pass through.
 
Photographs of the forester bulwarks show clearly visible timberheads.  The plans call the the rails, the Rail stringer and Ceiling.   Since they are different thicknesses I cut them as two different pieces.  That makes for one long toothpick.  what looks large in the plans is only a few millimeters when cut out.
 
Here is the port side glued up and half the starbord side.   
 

 
The resulting structure is quite strong while remaining flexable.  There are a few places where the laser cut a bit deep into  lower tabs at the top of beam line.  These broke off.  Since I had everything ready to glue, and I also have the tabs, I figured to glue the back once things are together.   I still have plenty of other parts to cut.
 
Next up will be to paint these rails.  I do not want to get paint on the nicely etch deck pieces.  I also want to pre bend the forward parts where it starts to curve.
 
-julie
 
 
 
 

Planed down the block of wood with the thickness sander  in preparation for more laser time this week.
 

 
It is amazing how little of the block is left.  The first slice was in the thickness direction which shows the height, in the background, of the block.  This was sliced into 3/16th strips, which would be around two feet at the 3/32 scale.  The sander will go down to around 0.04 which is about what the plans show the planking thickness.  This would be around 5 inches of scale.  4.8 inches is the quick calculation.
 
Did more tracing of the plan documents.
 
The plans show plank placements, so I traced over them.  on the bow side I simply copied and pasted the first planking line.  This extends out a bit.  Since there is some 2 to 3D projection involved, it will be interesting to see how this wraps around the model.  The sheets are thin enough to actually do some of this warping while test fitting.
 
Moved some of the timberheads around and decided to extend the deck all the way. The band saw bought deeper into the deck space than I initially thought. In places it is almost 1/4 inch below the 'top of beam' line.   It is easy to get lost in the zoomed in scale of the program.  A single pixel can represent three inches.  So it often seems there should be more space, than the scale allows for.  A similar effect happens when I work on watches where the world of small, can feel quite large.
 
The aft section required a lot more warping to match the drawing lines.  I had removed quite a bit of the aft cabin, all the way back to station 14.  So it looked best to draw things down to the point which was marked load line.  This is about where the side view drawing ends.  There may also be a bit of camera keystone distortion in this area.  There are some definite creases in the paper which were hard to iron out.  One could spend a lot of time on this.  Or I could build a large format scanner, which would also take forever.  I have 600 pipe organ (orchestrion rolls) which have been waiting 25 years for me to do a similar project.   I am not all that fond of filling up my phone with a bunch of images, since once captured are hard to delete.
 
There was also a small sheet with a couple of cross sections.  This says sheet 3 of three.  Which seems odd as there should me more,  like the arrangements of the cabins.  The C. A. Thayer documents note that the cabins were remodeled a few times.  Photos of the Forester show a much wider companionway.  What is interesting is overlaying and scaling these drawings, show that they are quite consistent.  With the deck and side planking lining up. 
 
-julie