rwiederrich
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Everything posted by rwiederrich
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Well...I wouldn't say it is not historical. At any point in time a vessels rigging changes for various reasons......all being historical...but not necessarily historical to all points in a vessels history. In most cases...to protect the public and to preserve and provide for adequate maintenance...some items have to be altered from their original condition. A minor detail the general public is totally unaware of. Rob
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I was just reading your reply over on Ships..... And my next question was....how do you keep water out? Possibly the length of 5ft and the proximity of *Just* under the rail, behind the pin rail, protected the entrance as a hood would, from encroaching water? Told you, this was going to be an issue to solve. A lot doesn't make sense currently. Rob
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Ask yourself....it is a fact they tarred or oiled the shrouds and backstays...no issue there...so what makes the ratlines any less susceptible to weather and decay then these other structures? When they rerigged the Constitution several years ago, they used all black line to simulate the actual tarred line of the original rig. Lanyards too, are part of the standing rigging...susceptible to the same elements and decay. Though they are used to sinch up the shrouds...they are NOT part of the running rigging. Tarr-em. Cutty Sark is no longer a working ship....she is set up for tourist, and many such details have been slightly altered for maintenance purposes. Rob
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A ball float valve. Right. Makes sense. Pretty complex valve system to manufacture for 1850 ships that used wooden bitts till 1869. Im working through it all………….. Rob
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Wonderful documentation… Rich. Great job! Rob
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One minute I’m making great sense, then the next minute I’m making no sense. I’m not talking about the ventilators you referenced, but the ones atop the plank sheet, between the bulwark stanchions. These guys can become submerged in heavy seas. Here’s some examples from Campbell and Rick’s Flying Fish.
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I don't mean to stand boldly in the face of those who are more experienced than myself on such matters, but history shows us that McKay was terribly dedicated to his workers and from that it is not a far stretch to gather that, that dedication extended to those who would use/sail his creations. As clearly as you have pointed out the failure of the most competent replicators, to recognize the *secret* of McKay's genius ..his now famous... Naval Hood. It is not a far stretch to see that these simple winches must have been omitted out of the same neglect. How could they have missed it....was your battle cry. I believe the same can be said about these lever winches. They are extremely plausible. Rob
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This would suggest....she had ventilators similar to those found on Flying fish. Tucked within the stanchions of her bulwarks. I've never been a fan of these kind of ventilators. When the bulwark goes under green water, and the decks are awash....the ventilators get submerged and most likely are flooded with water....which, subsequently spills into living spaces. Rob
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Personally, I think the addition of a third deck while under construction,...truly a modification from her designed two decks, isn't enough reason to assume that was the sole reason she had lever winches. We have to assume....because McKay was sucha stickler for having the most modern, technical advances built into his clippers...that he would overlook the seriously advantageous application of any kind of a winch to assist in working heavy loads aboard his vessels. 3 years later he clearly added many monkey winches to his largest design....Great Republic. It just makes no sense to me that McKay's ships were produced with no winches of any kind. It flies in the face of logic. Why would Staffordshire require them and no other vessel....just because somebody failed to mention them? McKay truly cared about his workers...and I can assume, he also cared about those who would work his vessels... Not to provide them the ease and advantage of a winch...appears idiotic. The jury's still out on this.... Rob
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Mike said he doesn’t believe they were on it…..but since McKay just started his clipper run and his preferences had not yet been fully realized…..I think it is possible, since at this point McKay was simply copying known practice. He had a strong opinion on the hull design, but I would guess not on all the deck furniture. You depicted large knees supporting the bitts…..that is not an issue. I think the bitts were vertical, had the side and fore pin rail …..AND the side lever winch beneath. If it is on top, it interferes with the lines being belayed. Rob
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You didn’t bring the right tools for the job(a very sharp pencil)…….🧐 sheeeesh . Hey…I talked to Mike , and he had a lot to say about Chapelle. He said he didn’t have a peer review to check his work. But further research shows that the kind of winch I’m referring to was found on clippers of the period. Campbell has a good drawing of one…..and this matches that of Chapelle. Mike wasn’t definitive, but was sure no such winch was on Staghound. I’m hoping to stop by and visit him this week….an discuss it further Rob
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1/32”. That’s a small drop of paint. If you’re any good at spilling paint. Now draw up a schematic where they’d be on the poop deck. Rob
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Well Campbell calls them bollards. One thing different from Glory. Duncan McLean said Staghound had patent ventilation bollards/bitts. That means she had metal(brass) bitts. Like this.
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I contacted Mike....lets wait and see what he says about the bitt winches. Rob
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I got the same info. The reason the glass was green is because it was made from *Float* glass. Typical because of the higher mineral content. The reason I purposefully chose the design I did, was because at the scale I'm modeling them in, the hexagonal shape nearly takes on a round appearance...being less then 1/16" in size. You want to make dozens of hexagon prism lights smaller than a 1/16 of an inch in size? And keep your sanity? I didn't think so......😁 Rob(I'll talk to the chief and see what I can do)
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True....good point. Lets ask Mikey....😄 He'll ea....., I mean, .....Knows everything. Not to be a rivet counter😜...but the iron ones are called Bitts my friend. Rob(truth seeker)
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One thing we can be sure of. McKay's secret *Naval Hood* was present on all of his clippers.....but nobody ever caught the *CLUE*. This fact is beyond contestation at this point. However.....Deck furniture between all of McKay's clipper changed with every model. McKay.....never built the same model...always trying to improve. He did return to some aspects and repeat himself....such as the hull design between the Great Republic and the Lightning. Though different in size, quite similar in design. Lightning and Donald McKay with their unique catwalk access across the mid decks from forecastle to poop. What CAN be speculative, is deck furniture....ie....houses, porticos, carriage houses, access ways...and the like. McKay seamed to experiment with many approaches....trying to satisfy crew and passengers comfort. As far as the working equipment on board....little is known about what, if any deck winches McKay used on his clippers...(Apart from the Great Republic, which had more then 6 spider winches on her decks). There has got to be some reason why Champelle drew them on his rendering of Staghound. Logic dictates their necessity....though some drawers of model plans thought otherwise. I have a bit to go before I get to that point...but I'm still pressed to avoid them all together. Rob
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I was considering the round design with metal flush mount flange. Rob
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Ceiling prism lights were in use for many years prior to 1850's. They were flush mounted and caulked. I'm truly considering them on Staghound. Maybe with a little location help from Clipperfan...I can be assured of a good representation. They were only about 4~6" in circumference. Side note: The underground city in Seattle used them in the streets above...and you can still walk the streets and see the prisms on the sidewalks and in the underground, they actually work pretty well. Rob
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Rick...the winches I am referencing are seen on Champelle's drawing of Staghound. they are mounted on the fore and main fife rail bitts. This would account for the ability for heavy lifting.....without the large iron winches the Brits used on their smaller clippers. I posted this earlier....but I'll post it again for clarity of idea. This winch system is mounted on a 3 master coastal schooner. But the principal is sound. Rob
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This is how I intend to precisely drill the pin rails as well. Not by hand as was done on Glory of the Seas. Rob
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Well...Staghound has far less structures to build....then Glory of the Seas of 1877. I'm hoping to put more detail into the skylight and the winches mounted on the fore and main fife rails. One item I'm wrestling with is, did Staghound have the same double gin block lifts for the topsails, as is depicted in every kit of Flying Fish? That means she would have double purchases on both starboard and port sides. Probably why she had those winches mounted on her fife bits. Anyway....I'm going to tackle a lot of small construction details differently than what I did on Glory. And I haven't decided if she will have sails furled or set either Rob
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I would assume that since he wrote about and documented so many clipper models...and all of them were of similar design of stem....he could not help himself, but to overlook the naval hoods of McKay's design. To him and so many others, it was just a unique trailboard of some kind. This is just an educated guess....mind you. But one that seams most plausible. Rob
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We’ll…. I surely thought I was being a stickler for detail……..but to be honest…..I could have done better. Now I built a jig to aid me in drilling precision holes in the rail for the stanchions that I’m remachinging old white metal stanchions I had in my stash since I was a kid. Been hauling them around for over 50 years. Im using my Mini lathe and mill. Here is the railing being test fitted in the jig for drilling. Rob
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Not more difficult....but more accurate. The stanchions must be around 10~12 scale inches to keep the rail height at a reasonable 32" on the poop deck. All other stanchions are reliant on themselves to maintain that same dimension of 32". I've got a couple tricks up my sleave.....I may use metal instead.😉 I've been doing a lot of study how I am going to affix the fantail rail to the stanchions this time. I'm going to do it differently than I did with Glory. Plus my rail will be moulded on both inside and outside with greater detail. Similar to the image of Glory's rail cap. I hope to take the opportunity to correct things I didn't pay much attention too on Glory. Rob
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