Seahawk1313

Beautiful wood! Hal

Welcome aboard! This is a great site with great people. I'm still learning and exploring the Forums. I hope you find things of interest.. Your models are impressive! Hal

My computer programmer son is trying to show me how to post pics. These are some ideas for the Philly's taffrail I am playing with. I think I spotted a Lion Head on the right side and either a Griffon or a Hydra on the left side. I may be seeing thing? I like the one with the Griffon-

On the original picture I have there isn't anything between the figures, there is a round hole not centered, looks like a shot hole(?). It seems the fit the arch over the windows on the stern, at least by the wood cut of the Philadelphia entering Tetuan,Morocco. I need to learn how to post pictures, this old dog needs to learn new tricks. Update: was able to post a picture of different ideas for the taffrail, any opinions?:

Just as a note: It was originally in one piece, in earlier pictures. I believe it was the center of the Taffrail. How much longer it was I don't know. Bainbridge cut parts of the Taffrail away to get guns to bear. I wish that they studied it better and that it didn't go missing. Next to the arms, are there feathers? Very interesting ideas, I'm leaning toward the "Greek",but still open. Figurehead was Hercules, and Wm.Rush liked Greek themes. Thank you all for your input.

Welcome Lou, there was a story in either Naval History or Sea Classics about this ship some years ago. Good luck with it. Hal

Thank You Talos, Your pictures are much clearer than the one Annapolis send me. I wish I knew what the heads looked like? Anyone have any ideas? I can't figure out if the figures are Native Americans or something "Greek' ? Thank You again, a big help. Harold

It was a short reference from a NY newspaper at the time of the New York's launch. I never got to the NY library to search for more information in their newspaper archives. The library person told me this was all he found at the time, but a search might find more, and I could do it. May be someday?

It is assumed that the New York's carving was done by Daniel N. Train, he did a lot of this work in N.Y.C. He did the work on the Adams and President, I would guess the New York carvings and subjects would be in that "style", a strong influence of Wm. Rush. The Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts had a great book,_William Rush American Sculptor, shows his ideas and works on the Goddesses, etc. He liked doing Hercules and Columbia. Most of this is guess work, but based on the sculptors style you can get a feel for what he may or may not have done. I have thought the main library in the City may have some information in the old newspapers, but I hate going into there. The Philadelphia's Taffrail went missing a long time ago, I never thought to ask if they had anything on size, etc. They gave me a 8X10 picture of it, but it doesn't show much. It would have helped if they had put a ruler with it. Do you know when the Philadelphia's guns were recovered or what happened to them? It would have been good to bring them home. The wood cut shows 6 windows on the stern, I enlarged it as best I could, I think it shows an accurate of the ship, small details are right for Philadelphia. Sorry if I rabble! Its age catching up with me.

Hello Steve, I'M still here, Retired from driving School Buses- Clam company died in 1998. Just started modelling again after 17 year "break". Started the Philadelphia 2 months ago, have the hull about 80% done, started the cannons so I can finish the gun deck. Interesting picture of the salvaged guns, especially the 9 pdr, I found no reference of 9 pdrs, 1 or 2 Chase guns? I don't have Bill's notes on Philadelphia. I wish I was better with computer back then, he had so much information. I don't know if anyone has his computer files, and Southhampton College is gone. Between modelling and things I started going through my files. In my youth I thought I knew a lot about the Carvings, but time has made me realize there is a lot unknown. Do you have an opinion on the Taffrail recovered from the Philadelphia, now missing from Annapolis, for some reason it doesn't look very Wm. Rush like to me? Just as a note: I found a "rough" drawing of the Essex stern carving I made 30 years ago, center is the Coat of Arms of Massachusetts with 4 flags and 4 cannon barrells behind the shield with an Eagle with downward wings imposed over the shield , on each side of it are cornucopua (sp?), this seems like something Samuel McIntire would do. I may have found this when I was searching for New York carvings, I don't remember the source and didn't note it. Charlie, I will look for anything I have on the Boston,had some files on it.

Just a History correction: The New York was NOT burned at Washington Navy Yard in 1814. Howard I. Chapelle was wrong. I have Bill Dune's notes; from (Taylor Peck, Round-Shot to Rockets, A History of the Washington Navy Yard and US. Naval Gun Factory, Annapolis: U.S. Naval Institute Press, 1949) . Also, 02-01- 1830, note on letter from William R. Nimmo of Baltimore to Secretary of the Navy John Branch inquiring about the possibility of salvaging the wrecks around Washington Navy Yard of which the New York was the only one visible above the water. If I can get Bill's note scanned and if anyone is interested I will add them. Basically New York was raised and surveyed in 1830 and found to be too expansive to do anything, was allowed to settle back into the Potomac mud. Bill was looking for more information as to what ever happened to it, but I don't know if he ever found anything more.

Hi Steve, Hal Bosche here, my models in your book, its been a long time. Interesting what you describe as in " French Style", I learn new things all the time, I always thought it referred the the shape of the Stern/ Taffrail. I'll have to rethink the New York when I "rebuild" it. I just don't like the City Seal, but that may be a part of carvings. My personnal feelings for the City getting in the way. The President carvings were very much in the "Wm. Rush" style. So much the learn and relearn, this is a great format. I wish there was something like this 20 -30 years ago.

Hello All, I built a model of the New York about 30 years age, not very good, needs a "Constellation" rebuild. I'll look for my papers and Bill Dune's notes to see what I used. I believe that the carving may have been done by Daniel N. Train, not sure if I found something or if it was something Bill thought. I also think the figurehead was Columbia, but don't think NYC seal type stern. If Train carved its stern I think it would be something like President's. Train was trained by Rush and had just gone out on his own. Very interesting topic . I am currently building Philadelpia, I built 5 stern windows but I'm changing it to 6. Wood cut "USS Philadelphia off Tetuan,Morocco" shows 6 windows.Photo Note:#NH65865-A, but don't remember where I found it, memory not what it was. P.S .I Built New York with 5 stern windows, but that was a guess, the stern was described as in the" French Style" in a news article, but nothing on the carving, stated they were impressive.

I am Hal Bosche of Islip, N.Y., just getting back into ship modelling and research after a 20 + year break. My interest was and is the early Federal Navy, Its start to about 1820. I'm still learning how to use this great site, with great models and members. I have a lot of catching up to do. I want to say hello to U.S.S.Folic, Steve, its been a long time, I'm glad to see you are active in all this. Started the U.S.F.Philadelpia, to see if I remember how I did things. One question :5 or 6 Stern windows? I built 5 windows because Fox design, but found wood cut "USS Philadelphia off Tetuan, Morocco" that shows 6. Any opinions ? Just found out U.S.F.John Adams had 6,will have to go back and correct that. Ships in Service: U.S.F. John Adams U.S.S Hornet, Brig U.S.S.Wasp 1807 U.S.S.Argus U.S.S.Nautilus U.S.S. Vixen U.S.S. Enterpize,Schooner U.S.S. Oneida Ships in Ordinary: U.S.F. New York, Needs a rebuid like the 1854 Constellation U.S.S Peacock 1813 U.S.S. Erie 1813 U.S.S. Syren U.S.F. President,1803,Based on Corne' paintings, I have to change some thing on the head after seeing the wonderful "zoom in" on this site H.M.S. Cyrane, Need to measure,Not sure if I built the "right" one, I think I did, Bill Dune helped with this and the John Adams Future Builds Planning: U.S.F. Congress 1800 U.S.F.Boston U.S.F. Chesapeake Thank All, sorry for rattling on