hamilton

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

Thanks TMJ! This bolsters the plan I had in my head but because I've never made a plank-on-frame model before I wanted to test the waters with the community a bit! Thanks again
hamilton

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

Thanks TMJ! This bolsters the plan I had in my head but because I've never made a plank-on-frame model before I wanted to test the waters with the community a bit! Thanks again
hamilton

I might 'still' be getting this wrong, but if my interpretation of your question is actually correct this time... I'd start with cutting out a wooden, or paper pattern to the exact dimensions and shape of the desired gunport. I'd 'then' use a height gauge to set the proper location and level of that gunport and the pattern with the model sitting level and secure in a cradle, or some sort of a 'berth' that will securely hold the model level and not allow it to shift nor list from port to starboard. Lay out your gunport(s) with a fine point pencil, or better yet, an extremely fine knife slice for a mark. Next, cut temporary braces to fit snugly between the surrounding frames, to hold those frames secure while sawing/cutting those frame members and also filing in the rabbets for the horizontal header and footer components. Use a tiny drop of PVA glue to secure those temporary braces in place. Don't use CA. Keep everything proud and use files to get the proper fit(s) without creating any unsightly gaps. File, check fit, file, check fit. Once you have your gunports installed, and everything is securely glued up remove those temporary braces via a knife and some filing to clean up the glue residue. 
I hope that this helps...          

Thanks for the response TMJ, but no - I'm talking about chopping the frame down to lay on the gunport sills and what is the best way to approach this. Here's the photo again with the area highlighted.....
hamilton
 

Cast toptimbers? Cut the pieces out of a piece whose thickness is the overall width of the timber as seen from the side. Trace the side's shape on this to see where parts of the timber need cutting away.

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)
 
I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 
 
It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......
 
In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now
hamilton

yes, Druxey - this is easier to see in the photos than on the model - there is a definite roundness to the inside corners that needs correcting...fortunately the files are small enough to get in there...added to the lengthening list!!
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

I finally got frame 1F right, I think - after constructing, deconstructing and reconstructing it 3 times! It has not yet been fixed to the keel, as there is still a bit more work to do - cutting notches for the sweep port sills.
 
To mark these out, I transferred markings for the sills from the sheer plan (which shows their heights) to the frame drawing (which doesn't). This allows me to take an initial location from the plans, which can then be confirmed/corrected by setting up the frame on the keel and using a tick strip to ensure consistency with the notched face of the aft deadflat frame. I have now marked, but not notched out, these elements - the last before instaklling the frame permanently on the keel. I'm out of town and away from the workshop at the moment, so this will have to wait - but the elements of frame 1 aft are now laid out on the building board waiting for me to come home and once that's done I will mount both frames of the set at the same time. Frame 1 aft has the merit of not having any fiddly elements to it - no shifted or cast futtocks and no gunports or sweep ports to account for - so it's just a matter of refining the futtocks and chocks, assembling and mounting it.
 
Here are some photos - enjoy and happy modelling
hamilton

Hi there:
 
I'm working on the Admiralty models HMS Echo cross-sectional model and had a question about how to cut the toptimbers out to frame the gunports. It seems to me there are at least two possible approaches, and I'm hoping to hear from those more experienced than me how best to approach this (understanding that "best" is both subjective and relative)....
 
1. Complete all frames of the cross-section and then cut the frames off appropriately for the gunports. This method benefits from the strength provided by having all frames in place and with battens added at the top of the toptimbers - though to my mind it seems pretty tricky to cut away the frames even with a small keyhole saw.....
 
2. Shorten the frames that fall in line with the gunport as they are added to the model, reserving the toptimber pieces for the extensions above the gunports - this seems easier in terms of cutting away the frames, but I wonder if there are difficulties that my lack of experience is hiding from me if I go this route....
 
I hope the question is clear......Here is the disposition of frame drawing for clarity - the frames in question are 2-aft and 3-forward. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
hamilton
 

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

yes, Druxey - this is easier to see in the photos than on the model - there is a definite roundness to the inside corners that needs correcting...fortunately the files are small enough to get in there...added to the lengthening list!!
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

yes, Druxey - this is easier to see in the photos than on the model - there is a definite roundness to the inside corners that needs correcting...fortunately the files are small enough to get in there...added to the lengthening list!!
hamilton

yes, Druxey - this is easier to see in the photos than on the model - there is a definite roundness to the inside corners that needs correcting...fortunately the files are small enough to get in there...added to the lengthening list!!
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.
 
I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.
 
I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.
 
The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.
 
Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...
hamilton