xodar461

James, There is a cannon poking through both the fore and main shrouds. I had to be careful when doing the ratlines to be sure the line of fire was clear. Seems like a recipe for disaster should should a shot take out one of the lines but who am I to question Chris's design! jeff

Greetings... Work on the Revenge has been a bit sporadic over the past few months. Now that the shrouds and ratlines are complete, progress should be a a slightly faster pace. Here is a photo of the ship at this stage... Next up are the stays. Photo below is the main stay (2 mm) with mouse (the part that goes around the mast is served) and it's collar which is served in it's entirety. Note the eye splice in each. The bowsprit gammoning has also been placed. I have to be very careful when turning the ship so as not to snap anything off! I'll post a few more pics after the stays are complete. jeff

Congratulations on a job well done. I would consider this kit a difficult one for first build (especially with the bow planking) but you have done a great job. Are you planning on using the display nameplate, pedestals and base? Jeff

Greetings. I am currently working on the shrouds on the Revenge . I use Syren's serving device. In Chuck's instructions, he recommends 50 wt down to 100 wt line for serving. The smallest line I could find by a model co. was Amati at 0.1 mm. For serving the lines on the Revenge, I found some 50 wt black and tan line that is even smaller. See pic below - the top is to 50 wt line and bottom is 0.1 mm. a bit blurry but I think you can see there is a difference. For smaller scales (Revenge is 1:64), a smaller wt thread such as 60 or 80 could be used. Below is the port main shrouds with the forward most shroud served. As you can see, the served shroud is just a bit larger than the others and the serving can be barely seen. For scale, the distance between the horizontal lines used to guide the ratlines is 6mm. Jeff

Thermopylae kit sold. Jeff

This is one old kit. The year stamp on the ship's deck in 1959, 2 years older than me! Jeff

Well that did not take long. Revel kit already has an interested buyer Jeff

I have the following items for sale: Revel Thermopylae - this was given as a gift, however I don't do plastic models. The kit seems to be quite old and the box condition is poor (looks like it was kept in an attic for several years, maybe decades). I think all the pieces are present but there is no way to be sure. Very few came off the sprues and these I placed in a ziplock bag; the condition of the pieces seems to be good. The paper instructions are on the brittle side but not to the point of falling apart. Here are some pics" Price of the kit - free, just pay the postage. This will probable be pretty expensive to send overseas. This kit comes as is so if any parts are missing be prepared to manufacture them. The 2 halves of the hull and ships decks are in good shape next up, 2 books Historic Ship Models by zu Mondfeld. The book is used and there seems to be a publisher's error as it is missing pages 35-63 (they don't seem to have been pulled out). I have another copy (which is even more "used" ) so I will be able to supply the missing pages. Sale price: $5.00 plus postage The arts of the Sailor by Hervery Garrett Smith. This is a good reference for all sorts of knots and knot tying techniques. It is brand new. Retails for $12 on Amazon. Sale price: $5.00 plus postage. send me a message or post here if interested. I will need a destination zip code to estimate postage and we can discuss further by PM. Jeff

Greetings! work in progress on the main shrouds. futtock shrouds also mostly done on one side. I left the rope and seizing natural color so as to better see how the shrouds run and how they are seized to the main shrouds Jeff

Greetings! Fore top mast shrouds now complete Onto the main mast. photo below shows the developing birds nest of lines while i do the shrouds and lanyards. The first 4 are in place and the aft 4 have been secured at the mast head and marked (see blue tape) so as not to mix them up when it comes time to do the lanyards. My process is to first serve the appropriate length that goes around the masthead, then seize it close to the masthead and the bring them through the top, alternating side to side beginning on the starboard. The shrouds are left long and are used to mark where the chainplate is nailed to the wale. The lower deadeye is then placed in the channel and the chainplate fixed to the deadeye and nailed to the wale (some trial and error required to get the correct length). An estimate is made for the correct shroud length and the eye seizing is placed and the shroud is tightened to the deadeye. With only the eye seizing in place, this can be adjusted later if needed. The lanyard is then placed and tightened and measurements taken to insure correct spacing. Only when all the deadeyes are in place and correctly space is the shroud seized and lanyard completed. also note the main tackles have been taken off the hook on the channel as they will be in the way for work on the shrouds and foot ropes. Jeff

Hi Chris, Would any of your boat kits or lanterns work for the Revenge kit you designed or would they be too "advanced" for that period? Jeff (build log for the Revenge under xodar461)

Greetings Kirill, your English is just fine in your posts and I have enjoyed reading them! Lower shrouds of the fore mast are now complete as are the futtocks. First 2 pics show how I keep the ratlines even. Next 2 show the final result. You may notice that the tackles have been undone on the photos above. They would have gotten in the way when the ratlines are placed so they were temporarily disconnected from the channel. This can be seen with the main tackles in the next 2 photos. The fore tackles were replaced upon completion of the ratlines. The ratlines have also been painted black. For the purist they were usually tan or light brown but I've always liked the look of black. The lighter color seems to be distracting. The next 2 pics show the foremast catharpins. These were a bit of a challenge to do as a small rope goes through each dead eye opening and then is tied to the shrouds. The deadeyes are 3mm and the blocks are 2 mm. The lanyard (0.1mm rope) is supposed to be tied to the space between the block and deadeye but I tied it to a shroud above the futtock stave (pic 3 below). Work in progress on the futtock shrouds below As I've said in an earlier post, I would like to ultimately display the ship at anchor in the simulated ocean. Here is what I have so far - 5 mm plexiglass with the waterline cutout. Eventually it will be painted and some water details added (first to be done on a test piece or 2). This is still quite some time in the future. until next time, Jeff

Hi Jonathan, After reviewing you last few posts and Kirill's replies, I thought I would add my 2 cents. One reason things might not look "right" may be due to the thickness of the futtock shrouds. The kit plans call for 1.3 mm rope for the main fore shrouds and 0.75 mm for the futtock and topmast shrouds. The same diameter rope is called for on the corresponding main mast. However, the rope sizes for the shrouds are slightly different from the fore to the main and the sizes used for the kit instructions seem to be too big for the scale of the ship. Sizes of all rope used for rigging is not arbitrary, it is calculated based on the thickness of the main stay which is itself based on the thickness of the mainmast at the deck. 2 good references are Historic Ship Models by Wolfram zu Mondfeld and The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625 - 1860 by James Lees. So, here are the calculations: the thickness (or diameter) of the mainstay is typically 0.166 x (diameter of the main mast at the deck). This is from zu Mondfeld. For the Revenge, that would be 1.66 mm. The kit calls for a 2mm line and I thought this looked better and is not too far off (also if I used 1.66, everything else would be measured using this value leading to smaller shrouds, backstays etc which I thought would make the overall rigging look too "thin"). Another point to remember with ropes is that in many reference books the size of the rope given is actually the circumference whereas the sizes given in kit instructions are the diameter. Everything below is rope diameter. According to the tables found in zu Mondfeld's book, the fore shroud measures 40% of the main stay and the futtocks and topmast shrouds are 18 and 20 % respectively. That would translate to 0.8 mm for the fore shroud (I used 0.88) and 0.4 mm for the topmast shrouds (I used 0.45 for the topmast and the futtocks as well as there is only 2 % difference). You can see that this is almost half the size of what the kit call for and thus may be why thing don't look right. The main shroud is 50 % of the main stay (1 mm vs kit 1.3 mm) and the futtocks / topmast would be 20 % / 25 % (.4 mm and .5 mm vs kit .75mm). All rope sizes can calculated from the size of the main stay, both running and standing rigging. One rigging that is constant is the size of the ratlines - standard size is 1.5 inches circumference so at a scale of 1:64 that would be 0.18 mm diameter (kit calls for 0.25). I usually err on going smaller as ratline that are too large just don't look right. So even using the kit size for the main stay of 2 mm, the remaining rigging sizes (at least on the set of plans I am currently working on) are too thick. It may seem complicated but it is not really if you just take it one line at a time. I simply figure out how big each line should be as I get to it and see what I have in stock that is close. Also, you are not so far advanced that restarting the rigging (if you chose to do so) would not be too difficult. And finally, I have an extra copy of Historic Ship Models and would be happy to sell it for you for a nominal fee + shipping (depending on where you live). For some reason, due to a publishing error, it is missing pages 33-64 but I could get those pages to you with the book. Just send me a message if you are interested. Jeff

Hi Kirill I appreciate your help and loved the historical paintings you provided. I do plan to put sails on. I plan on having the ship displayed at anchor with the sails partially drawn up, maybe the mizzen or bonaventure sails furled. I plan on using silkspan as the sail cloth provided in the kit is out of scale (much too thick). I have a sheet of plexiglass with the waterline cut out that the ship will sit in that will eventually be finished to simulate water (I hope). I have a phot of this that I will soon post. Never have done sails so that will be an adventure. The kit provides pretty good sail plans and I have several references to help with the rigging if the kit plans are lacking. Jeff

Hi Kirill Your second post really got me thinking so i decided to check things out. First I marked where the bowsprit met the deck and then measured that compared to the height of the foremast from deck to cap as you suggested. I found that the bowsprit was just a few MM short from the top of the cap so I think I have the correct length. So then I placed the bowsprit in it's deck opening and hung the spritsail yard and this is what I came up with... This seems to be close to the correct position as seen in your reference photos. I think the problem lies with the prototype on the box as I agree that the spritsail yard seems to be in the wrong place (as it is on my kit box top). Let me know what you think and thanks for your input Jeff

Hi Kirill Thanks for your input on the bowsprit. BTW, your galleon is amazing. The length of the bowsprit in kit is 363 mm. An often used reference for me is Historic Ship Models by Wofram zu Mondfeld. According to his tables of mast dimensions, an English galleon of 1570 would have a bowsprit length of 2.235 x the ship's beam. Using my model as a reference, I measured a the beam to be ~160 mm which would translate to a bowsprit length of 357 mm. The diameter of the bowsprit at the deck would be 0.028 x L of bowsprit, or ~10 mm, which is what the kit calls for. I did not do this for all of the masts and yards as this kit was designed for Amati by Chris Watton, a master model designer (see his website at Vanguard Models). His models are first rate and I trust that he did his research when designing the kit. It is good to know that his measurements are accurate with the bowsprit as I am sure they are with the remaining masts and yards. Jeff

Greetings! work on the fore shrouds now in progress. The fore-most shroud on the fore and main mast are typically served and the serving tool from Syren has been invaluable The eye of the shroud that goes around the mast is also served. Shrouds are placed in pairs and alternate from side to side starting on the starboard side. Photo below shows a close up of the shrouds at the masthead once the shrouds were placed, work on the deadeyes and and lanyards can begin. Before placing the upper deadeye, the lower ones (which had been stropped earlier with photo-etched brass supplied with the kit and blackened) were placed in the channels. Chain-plates were a single piece of brass that has to be bent at the appropriate place and then secured to the wale with a small brass nail. The shroud (minus the deadeye) was used to determine the correct angle for the chain-plate. Each deadeye was then attached to the shroud initially with just the eye seizing. Note that the shroud loops around the deadeye and crosses in the back with the eventual short end on the forward side of the shroud to starboard and to the aft on the port side. When the correct distance between the deadeyes is determined (usually 2-3 x the deadeye diameter), the lanyards are placed. For me, this takes a lot of back and forth to get the spacing correct before the final seizing is placed on the shrouds. Picture below illustrates some of the principals from above. photo below shows the work in progress. The distance between the red arrows should be the same for each deadeye. The yellow arrow points to the eye seizing. The aft 3 deadeyes are lower than the others because the distance between the deadeyes was originally set up to low. As just the eye seizing was placed, it was fairly simple to adjust the distance. As you can see, there is quite a tangle of ropes as I left the extra on the eye seizing, lanyards and shrouds. Nothing is trimmed until I am ready to finalize things. Like Jonathan (also building Revenge), I found that the nails holding the chainplates were coming out a bit so the were all fixed with a drop of CA. Photo below shows some shroud seizing placed on the port side. The first 3 lanyards are set with the rope going through the eye. The aft 3 still need to be adjusted to the correct height. Another issue that came up: as I put tension on the lanyards, the channel support started to, ever so sightly, pull away from the hull. To fix this, the forward most ones which had pulled away slightly were re-glued and then fixed with a dowel through the support into the hull. I did this to all the channel supports to prevent this with future shrouds. With the deadeye distance complete, the shrouds were then seized (2 seizings on each) and the lanyards seized. End result is below. The aft 2 chainplates seem to be at the wrong angle but i suspect this is from the camera angle as the second photo shows them in a better position. With the fore shrouds now complete, work on the Futtock shrouds, catharpins and ratline will be next. Jeff

As with the post above, I use a standard hand held drill. it is easy to do for mast - just stick one end in the drill and sand to desired thickness. I like to leave the dowel long to account for the part that is in the drill chuck as the chuck will leave indentations on the wood. This can be sawed off later. I do yards with a drill as well but with some modification as both ends need to be tapered, unlike the mast. The yard is cut longer than needed (again to account for the part of the yard in the chuck. Once one side is sanded then the other side will need to be cut to the correct length. Then I wrap some painters tape around the side that has been tapered (so the tape rather than the wood with get the indentations from the chuck) and you are ready to sand the other side. This method has worked well for me over the years. Some yards recently done can be see on my log of the revenge by xodar461 Jeff

Greetings The masts and yards are now complete with all necessary blocks attached. The first lines have been placed...the main tackles. The falls are not yet cut as I like to leave the extra on in case lines need to be adjusted later. The rope coils will be added to the belaying pins when the lines are cut. The tool below is quite useful for seizing blocks. Shrouds and ratlines come after the tackles. I'll try to post some pics as they are completed Jeff

Hi Jonathan: I would check the orientation of your blocks. the ones seen on the first photo above seem to be upside down...the "holes" in the block (meant to represent the opening for the rope to pass over the pulley inside the block) should be oriented so that it is closest to where the block is seized. This photo below (though not very good) illustrates this. The blue line is the block strop, the black is the seizing (the "blue" rope above the seizing will be what gets tied around the yard) and the red is the line that passes through the block. I am not a big fan of the blocks supplied by the kit as they are too boxy. There are several retailers that sell very accurate blocks albeit at a price (check out Syren Ship Model Co listed on homepage here), but I think they will greatly add to the overall appearance of your model. I would also consider not placing the yards on the masts until most of the standing rigging is done. I think you may find the yards get in the way at this point Jeff

I am currently building the 1577 Revenge ( Amati) and I was wondering if anyone can help with a question regarding when serving of ropes that go around the masthead (and the forward most shroud) began. Only reference I could find was in in zu Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models where he states that the foremost shroud on each mast was "wormed parcelled and served from the first half of the sixteenth century on" and from the middle of the sixteenth century on, the eye round the masthead was also served. The ship's scale is big enough that it won't be a problem to do it and it would make a noticeable difference when compared to the part of the shroud that in not served. Any thoughts would be appreciated Jeff (Revenge build log under Xodar461)

Hi Jonathan. Looking good. I recommend putting all the blocks on the yards before mounting them. The mizzen and bonaventure yards don't have many blocks so it should not be a problem putting them on with the yards already attached, however it may be a problem with the main and fore yards as they have many more blocks (8-10 on each yard). Jeff

The parrels look good to me The brand of paint I use is called model masters by Testors. I got it at Hobby Lobby. Jeff

Hi Jonathan: re paint: I use flat black acrylic - easy to apply with brush and clean up with water. I good finish can be obtained with several coats and light sanding in between coats with very fine sandpaper or steel wool. I'll have a few pics soon of the yards on my build. I am almost finished with attaching all the blocks. As far as the parrels, this pic may help. although it is about 50 years ahead of the Revenge, I think it is a good way to attach them to the yards. the 2 loose ends can be simply tied around the yard (red arrows) as it is one continuous line. (photo from "The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast" by RC Anderson) Hope this helps Jeff

Jonathan: regarding your question about the relationship of the masts to the decks...the foremast is pretty easy as there is not much depth to the hole it goes through. the profile of the ship (plan 4) shows on what deck the main and mizzen mast sit. The lengths of these 2 masts as shown on the plans is correct and you should have no problem seating these 2 as long as the decks were properly placed. The bonaventure mast needs some adjustment. Plan 4 shows that it sits on the quarter deck however there is an opening on the quarter deck (see first photo page 39) for this mast so it really sits one deck lower (on the rear upper deck). The correct rake of this mast will be obtained by placing the mast through these 2 openings. Therefore this mast needs to be longer than what is found on the plans - just measure the distance between the 2 decks from the profile and add it to the length of the bonaventure mast shown on the plans 9 (~40 mm). To see if you are at the correct depth, insert masts and mark deck line on the mast with a pencil and then compare to plan 4. hope this helps jeff