NAZGÛL

The top pictures of Vasa appears brighter compaired to how the model looks imo. Beautiful picture of the coat of arms, just beautiful!
 
 
/Matti

I heard she was painted in a north german style with polychrome sculptures. The red was a traditional swedish navy color. The ship that can be seen in the back of the painting of queen Kristina (Gustav Adolfs daughter) looks pretty close to Vasa in its color, even if it has few details added. 
 

 
I agree with the above comment that Vasa colors would have looked different in full size, especially if looked upon from distance.
 
 
/Matti

Thanks for the food for thought gents!
 
I hope I haven't missunderstand what you mean, if so please tell me.
 
jbshan, the lower wale o the small pinass is not at the waterline, or did you mean any other pics?
 
Anton, you raised a question about the allround or warship type of ship. In my imagination I think Duke Karl (later Karl IX) would have much use for allround ships in his fleet as he used them for transport of goods to and from his duchy. If this is true or if Gripen was a more strict warship, I can't know. But I like that logic and plan to do her like that. I planned to give my model a deck setup like Kalmare nyckel or the pinass above. I haven't thought throuh how all the decklines would run.
 

 
I think the old pinass sketch is fairly close to mine when it comes to the gunports. I didnt do any railing above them like that has, but if you remove her railing its pretty close. I think the gun ports height needs to sit higher up on a smaller vessel, or she would need to have a bigger belly, bringing the water line up. I actually think it would be dangerous to put the gun ports one step lower on the Kalmar Nyckel replica, wich is pretty close in proportions.
 

 
I will look for more pictures of smaller dutch ships to see the placements of their gunports.
 
 
Thanks again for telling your thoughts, it's really helpfull!
 
 
/Matti

Hi all!
 
First I'd like to thank you all for the advices and information you've given in this thread.
 
I have now started to build the model and you can follow it here:
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10277-gripen-1591-by-mattinazg%C3%BBl/
 

 
 
 
/Matti
 
 

I also think it's a design, not the perspective.
 
I think it may have been designed like that on ships in different sized ship aswell, at least variants of it. Speculations only of course, but I see no reason why not. 
 
Actually they are pretty close up, especially the top left one. The smaller size of the top right is because of the small picture I found. The images are in different sizes. Here is the top right one uncut:
 

 
Still I'd like to make the gallery more simple, Partly as it would make it more in tone with the ship lines and I also want to make Gripen a more basic ship.
 
I got a feeling that simpler lines would feel more like late 1500 and less early 1600. That's just how I feel though.

Thanks for the feedback mate. Yeah That would probably look more in tone with the other lines.
 
 
I took some examples by Vroom. The more straight ones look more right for the lines in my scetchesI think:
 

 
/Matti

Cheers jbshan and Wayne! Im really impressed with all the info you have, thanks for sharing it!
I haven't decided what to do with the size of the gunports. Some replicas of galleons seem to have larger ports than 76x76. I can be wrong of that when trying to judge by pictures though. And they are replicas, and not hard evidence of course.
 
One of the reasons I decided to go for Gripen is that little is known and I could get great freedom of design. I strongly suspect I will end up making decissions on it that is incorrect or speculative. But I will try and make what I think is beautyful. I feel it´s soon time to jump in and start the actual build.
 
Here is a sketch of the stern. I had an idea to make the balcony curved, kind of how the lines goes on Vasa. But looking at it now, I think I need to simplify those lines. Opinions?
 

 
 
/Matti

Hi Law, and thanks!
 
We are working on our house, and have been all summer, so I had no time for modelbuilding. Hopefully I will get back on it later on.
 
 
Cheers
 
/Matti

Hey mate, sorry for missing your reply! Have a lot to do atm so the model is sitting on my shelf waiting for the next step.
 
 
 
/Matti

Thanks JM, once you get what goes where she builds in to a nice model. Feel free to ask and perhaps me or the other Billing Vasa builders can help.
 
Karl, your model turned out beautyful!
 
Vasa was a regal class ship, a kings powerful ship named after his heraldic name. Regal ships where usually named after things that were symbols of the king, The Spectre, The Crown, The Sword, The Apple (like Vasa sister ship Äpplet) and so on. Vasa is the family name (heraldic name?) of the king Gustav II Adolf. We call the time period between 1521-1654 vasatiden (The Vasa time) in swedish history because of these kings (and one queen). The V or W is because they had no clear spelling rules back then and wrote anyway they wanted.
 
Here's their heraldic symbol, same as on the Vasa ship. The thing in the middle is a vasakärve, a bundle of seed.  These symbols are still common is swedish authorities.
 
 

 
I just finished the display case and got the model inside. The case is customized with a set of legs from an old table I had and some planks to fasten them. The display case is shortened to fit the model amd get nicer proportions of it.
 

 
Cheers!
 
 
/Matti

Hey all! I've been trying to work out the lines. To be able to continue with the other decks, I needed to plank the first one. As I'm building it by eye, I need to see the other decks in place before preparing for a mast and gratings. A bit backward.
 
Also started on the stern shape. 
 

 

 

 
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hey Law, glad to see you visit! I don't have time for this build at the moment, so she is sitting on my shelf. Still have a decire to build her so I'm sur eI'll get back to her later on.
 
 
/Matti

Matti;
Looking very good. Especially because you do this from your own drawings.
Different question. Were the Duyfken and the Eendracht the same type of ship?
Thanks
Marc

Hi Matti, nice to see you back at the slipway mate, ship is looking good
Tony

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Hey all! I've been trying to work out the lines. To be able to continue with the other decks, I needed to plank the first one. As I'm building it by eye, I need to see the other decks in place before preparing for a mast and gratings. A bit backward.
 
Also started on the stern shape. 
 

 

 

 
 
 
/Matti

Hi everyone!
 
I have an interest in King Karl IX, Gustav II Adolfs father. Before reaching the crown he was a duke and was successful in developing his duches and he created his own fleet. And when he later went to war with Sigismund his fleet became an important part. When he later became king his fleet became part of the swedish fleet. As many men of power at that time in history, Karls seems to have been quite cruel but he did manage to reach remarkable goals in his life and laid the base of what Gustav II Adolf managed to achieve later on. For a while I'v been wanting to make a model of one of Karls ships. When going through the ship lists available I decided to go for the small ship called Gripen (griffin). Gripen was Karls symbol and is to be seen on Vasa stern as well when two griffins puts the crown on Gustav II Adolfs head. Making a model of Gripen will mean a lot of guesses on my behalf as very little is known. 
 
I like to build by eye and even if I made some basic plans and drawings, I will try to relax and do what feels right as I move the build along.
 
The design is inspired by the beautyful replica of Duyfken and by paintings by Vroom and other dutch artists. I would like to thank all who helped me with advices and opinions in this thread: 
 
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9996-ships-of-the-late-16th-century/
 
In that thread you can also follow the steps I did when designing the model.
 
When I finished the Vasa build I had a pile of spareparts left. When looking at the parts I felt I'd like to try and reshape them into something else. I feel this gives me lots of freedom when building it as I can do whatever I feel like and that helps creativity. Worst thing that can happen is that I mess upp and then I can just through it in the bin. 
 
Step 1 was to design the model. As said that step is covered in the thread mentioned above.
 

 

 
 
Step 2 was to decide what size it would be in. I printed the drawings in different sizes and then decided. The scale is close to 1:70.
 
Step 3 was to make a more detailed plan just to get the basic set up of the frames and how to reshape them to the lines of my drawings.
 

 
Step 4  Was to do the actual reshaping. First before assembly, then reshaping again. The supporting parts are ugly but I liked the idea to just use the left over parts after sawing the frames. Ugly but easy to do and they will be covered later on. I needed the supporting bits to be stronger compaired to say how BB designed theis Vasa kit, as I had to reshape them in place.
 

 

 
Next step will be to make the stern, bow and decks.
 
 
/Matti

Gosh,over 5 months since I posted on here!!
Over the past couple of months no progress has been made but I have had the opportunity to do a great deal of thinking.My new position at work is taking all my time leaving me realistically Sunday to do what I want.Money wise,I certainly can't grumble but it does mean my modelling time has drastically been reduced.
I basically need to take stock and reassess many of the projects I have on the go.I am going to continue with Mordaunt but need to take a change of direction.To carry on as is would result in many years work at the rate I am going coupled with the fact there are a few small details I am unhappy with.I believe that to move the model back in the direction of the stock kit will bring back the enjoyment into the build.I had previously set my bar so high,I worry carrying on will result in frustration at not being able to make anything in the way of progress.
There will be some minor detail changes to the stock kit,mainly around the windows and a change in timber for the topside planking,but in the majority I am going to use as many kit parts as possible.It does build into a nice model out of the box and I found one on the net that won a gold medal in the Czechoslovakian championships with minimal  changes.
Currently I am reviewing the drawings and Pete's interpretive files to establish how the changes I have made already impact the fit of the kit stern etc.So far everything looks like it will fit as intended,I have to console myself that all the additional work has resulted in a superior foundation for the main deck and hull planking.At least I will only have one layer of hull planking to fit after completion of hull fairing.
Royal William may be shelved until retirement or if my circumstances change in the distant future,you never know I may even buy the kit and graft the prow I made into that build,but that is something for another day
I am not too sure when the next update will be,but will no doubt be when I have turned the build around a little in the direction I want to head
 
Kind Regards
 
Nigel

Nigel,
 
As much as we wish it didn't at times, life and work and family come first.  It always seems like new jobs eat up all the time available, doesn't it?  The wood is patient, right?

Hi Nigel, good to hear from you mate! i hope you like the new job. Take the builds in the pace you manage. I don't know about you but i cant build if it feels like a chore. Relax and enjoy.
 
/Matti

Hey all! I've been trying to work out the lines. To be able to continue with the other decks, I needed to plank the first one. As I'm building it by eye, I need to see the other decks in place before preparing for a mast and gratings. A bit backward.
 
Also started on the stern shape. 
 

 

 

 
 
 
/Matti

I know what you mean. I'm in the same boat!

Thanks Mark! That's one of my reasons for using the spare parts and leftovers from the last build as much as possible. The freedom to try anything and just have fun.
 
Getting the lines correct is my challenge right now.
 
/Matti