Matrim

Don't have a lot from the old log but I did get some of the completed shots on my mobile which are shown below. The quality wont be as good as the originals either.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Joss

Rather than drone on about history intermiabley (which may not appeal to some) I thought I would bring the current state of the plans up to date. Some of these appeared in the log in the late lamented msw 1.0 as follows. None of these are particularly drillable.
 
Sheer
 

 
 
 
Next up the framing plan - No changes apart from re-arrangement of barricade type construction on the quaterdeck
 

 
Then we have the first new plan. This is a framing plan to be used on the 'shipway'. Due to the innovative method of making the square frames follow a waterline (done on a whim) it looks a little like a large fish. This plan will be 'adjusted' as and when I get round to doing more detailed plans of the transoms, stern and bow details
 

 
Finally we have the first working plan - this of the keel and false keel. I took some decisions here which I am uncertain about. The first is that I followed the Euryalus book in placing the keel taper over the cant frames only and not over the entire keel. I am not certain whether this should be over the entire keel length hence providing a smaller angle for a longer distance. The second decision was that what I read seemed to state that the false keel overlapped the joints of the keel. This seems to work well apart from the most forward piece which seems a little small to my eyes. Anyway comments on either welcome as always.
 

 
Plans wise I am currently working on the rising wood then stem, stern and keelson plans.
 
Joss
 
 
 
 
 
 

Joss,
 
There seems to be a line missing.  I have attached a sketch identifying the timbers.  If my sketch is incorrect, Wayne or someone please step in as I do not want to lead Joss down the wrong path.
 
Allan

Hi Joss,
 
I'm not sure I understand your question, specifically, but I would offer some comments that I hope will be helpful and not confusing. The one thing that strikes me is that your sketch shows a discontinuity in the cutting down line, which is probably incorrect.
 
The line of the bottom of the keelson and the tops of the floors, called the cutting down line, was a basic design parameter specified on the Table for Forming the Body. So, it is an independent variable - not dependent on other components. It should be a fair curve along its full length. The heights can be taken off from the profile draft. It terminates at the timber you show as Deadwood 4 and at the stem.
 
The bearding line is not an independent line. It is described by points on a vertical plane offset from the centerline by the breadth of the deadwood - actually half the deadwood breadth. These points are at the intersection of each frame profile with that plane. This applies to the square frames as well. If you draw the bearding line from these points on your the body Plan, the seat for the cant frames will be at the correct height. If you draw the bearding line from the profile you may introduce error.
 
I believe it is preferable to plot The bearding line from heights taken from your CAD body plan at each frame. Just drawing a vertical line outside the centerline to represent the plane and pick of the bearding line heights at each frame. This applies at the fore and aft ends.
 
The terms deadwood and rising wood are essentially interchangeable. They have the same breadth and the rising wood is just a specific part of the deadwood. Of course both are tapered down to the rabbet of the keel.
 
Hopefully this is useful. It helped me in drawing and lofting Naiad. I found that the bearding line taken from the profile differed from the line drawn from the body plan.
 
Good Luck,
 
Ed

I decided I better get the cannons completed before I finished the gangway or it would be difficult to get them rigged. The plans for the cannon carriages are excellent, and I had no problem getting those built this week. I haven't tackled making the barrels yet, but that will be this weekends work. I used cherry and maple for the carriages, and you can see the results below. I'm quite happy with how they turned out. The wheels are functional, and so are the brackets for the trunnions! The little tapered pin comes out so I can place the cannon barrels later. I hadn't intended to put this much detail into it, but I was having way too much fun.

I also got the brackets for the gangway completed and glued in place. 
 

 

 

 

 

Uwe:

Yes they used metal fastenings all over a ship, but in model building the situation is entirely different. In a real ship, they did have a lot of movement in wood and metal fastenings of all types that degenerated over time. In a model, even with the best adhesives, wood still moves with changes in temperature and humidity and metal fastenings, regardless what they are, will degenerate over time to some degree, however small.

Aside from the fact that the metal fastenings needed to hold the wood together in a real ship, there was also the problem of discoloration of wood by metal as it ages. In a real ship this is not important but in a model it could be. With metal fastenings, there is always some chance of this, no matter how small it may be. With wood or bamboo fastenings, there is no chance.

But most important to me, wood fastenings will become a part of what they are holding together whereas a metal fastening will always be a foreign object in two pieces of wood.

Use what you wish, but keep in mind what I am saying.

Russ

The complete Section model at this stage of construction
 

 
Top view....the structure of the Gundeck is not oiled until now 
 

 
The very last Carling and ledges between axis 4 and 5 are installed
 






 

Check out Uweks build as he was the member who put the most detail into how and why  - his log is gradually getting reposted up again (and is quite large). That will help out with the order of building. What you tend to find though is that members used to copy what they liked out of individual logs so you might use one persons caulking method but another's method of coppering.
 
If there is no advice covering anything you need to know then ask in your log. The biggest advantage the site still retains is that there are a large number of people who have completed the cross section (and full build plus the Echo build now) - even if their logs have gone. So essentially there are a lot of people who have addressed the very thing you are looking at and should hopefully have an answer.
 
Joss

Mod Note - Some of the original Triton build logs have been saved and I will be reposting some of them up week by week. Please do not comment against them as the original authors have often moved on so will not be able to reply. If an original owner no longer wishes their log to be posted then please get in touch and the log will be removed. Also note that some of the original comments (usually attaboys but sometimes questions also do not appear
 
Some time ago I mentioned to my friend Zeljko our Triton project and he was immediately very interested in this idea of a
community built of a Vessel-section.

Although he is not a member by himself here in MSW I printed out the plans and we agreed to make this built parallel and partly together.

This was already some weeks ago. As times goes by he started earlier and me only last weekend.

My description of my section built will follow.

Here in this topic I will be able to show Zeljkos work for the Triton Section as a kind of building log, so you will be able to follow his construction works and see his way of construction methods.

The basis for the built and installation of the frames is a "Helling-construction" (Helling-jig) with a strong basis (level O).

On this basis the main lines are marked, like the location of the keel and the location of all nine frames (C to A and O to 5).


A thinner first level board (level 1) is prepared with the same lines.

This board should be installed and leveled exactly in this way, that the top of the board is on the same height like the lower edge of the Lower Deck Beams.

Fixing and exact level can be reached and adjusted with several thread-screws and nuts.



Each hole for the boards, where the screws will be installed should be drilled together in one pass, means that boards of level O, 1 and 2 (will be needed later on) should be clamped together and from the top the holes are drilled in one passage through all three boards. 
 

 
The prepared nine frames inclusive keel (shorter) and keelson (longer).
 

 
Detail  of the keel with the already installed False keel. Have a look at the rabbit.....

in my following building log I will show how the rabbit could be done with an easy and very exact way.....


 
The first frame number O installed on the keel, glued and additional fixed with a small nail through the Floor
Futtock against the keel.

On top of the photo the board level 1 is visable. 
 

 
The same frame shown from the top inside of the jig. In order to fix the ends of the frames a small drop of
glue is used between third Futtock and board level 1 and in addition fixation with a cord-line.



For the exact location it is now important that the marked lines on board level 1 are exact drawn and exactly vertical over board 0.

Because of this the above mentioned info about the drilling of the holes for the screws.
 






 

"Okay, here is a rough set of dimensions to use for various parts of the model in the three scales. 

1/48 scale Frames, no 61 bit (.039", 1mm), hull planking, no 76 bit (.020" .5mm), deck beams, knees, bitts, etc, no 68 bit (.031" .8mm), and for securing the frames and the keelson, a no 52 bit (.0625" 1.5mm) will do fine.

1/64 scale Frames, no 69 bit (.029" .75mm), hull planking, no 79 bit (.015" .4mm), deck beams, knees, bitts, etc, no 73 bit (.024" .6mm), and for securing the frames and keelson use the same 1/16" diameter bit as used in 1/48 scale. It will work fine. 

1/96 scale Frames, no 76 bit (.020" .5mm), hull planking, no 80 bit (.0135" .4mm) deck beams, knees, bitts etc, no 76 bit (.020" .5mm) and for securing the frames and keelson, no 61 bit (.039" 1mm) 

Please, please, please keep in mind these are very rough and very general dimensions. This is a guide, not a set of hard and fast rules. So long as you are close, there should be no big problems. If you do not want to treenail your planking in 1/96 scale, that's fine, but if you do, you might want to use something a bit larger than no 80. Its the builder's choice."
 
[copy of one of Russ's original posts on the subject of treenails] 

Rather than drone on about history intermiabley (which may not appeal to some) I thought I would bring the current state of the plans up to date. Some of these appeared in the log in the late lamented msw 1.0 as follows. None of these are particularly drillable.
 
Sheer
 

 
 
 
Next up the framing plan - No changes apart from re-arrangement of barricade type construction on the quaterdeck
 

 
Then we have the first new plan. This is a framing plan to be used on the 'shipway'. Due to the innovative method of making the square frames follow a waterline (done on a whim) it looks a little like a large fish. This plan will be 'adjusted' as and when I get round to doing more detailed plans of the transoms, stern and bow details
 

 
Finally we have the first working plan - this of the keel and false keel. I took some decisions here which I am uncertain about. The first is that I followed the Euryalus book in placing the keel taper over the cant frames only and not over the entire keel. I am not certain whether this should be over the entire keel length hence providing a smaller angle for a longer distance. The second decision was that what I read seemed to state that the false keel overlapped the joints of the keel. This seems to work well apart from the most forward piece which seems a little small to my eyes. Anyway comments on either welcome as always.
 

 
Plans wise I am currently working on the rising wood then stem, stern and keelson plans.
 
Joss
 
 
 
 
 
 

Rather than drone on about history intermiabley (which may not appeal to some) I thought I would bring the current state of the plans up to date. Some of these appeared in the log in the late lamented msw 1.0 as follows. None of these are particularly drillable.
 
Sheer
 

 
 
 
Next up the framing plan - No changes apart from re-arrangement of barricade type construction on the quaterdeck
 

 
Then we have the first new plan. This is a framing plan to be used on the 'shipway'. Due to the innovative method of making the square frames follow a waterline (done on a whim) it looks a little like a large fish. This plan will be 'adjusted' as and when I get round to doing more detailed plans of the transoms, stern and bow details
 

 
Finally we have the first working plan - this of the keel and false keel. I took some decisions here which I am uncertain about. The first is that I followed the Euryalus book in placing the keel taper over the cant frames only and not over the entire keel. I am not certain whether this should be over the entire keel length hence providing a smaller angle for a longer distance. The second decision was that what I read seemed to state that the false keel overlapped the joints of the keel. This seems to work well apart from the most forward piece which seems a little small to my eyes. Anyway comments on either welcome as always.
 

 
Plans wise I am currently working on the rising wood then stem, stern and keelson plans.
 
Joss