Richard Dunn
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Which CNC Machine to get?
Richard Dunn replied to KrisWood's topic in Modeling tools and Workshop Equipment
I have a D series Stepcraft 840 that can Profile and Carve, no complaints from me in terms of accuracy, it is maintenance heavy but if you look after it it looks after you. I built mine from kitset as although it is a big job it is essential to know how to take it apart for maintenance. I should add to , that this machine requires you degrease all the leadscrews and re-grease at most every 20 hours of runtime(as soon as grease goes dark), so if doing a big job its a pain to have to do every few days but normally it would not be running 24/7 like mine is right now on this huge model. I have now cut 35 sheets of 6.5mm and 2mm ply with no problems other than stupid user errors caused by getting to know the machine and UCCNC software. No complaints and support has been fantastic for me with parts and gear.
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No problem I hope it is turning out to be the revelation I suspected it would be. My wife and I had a number of training courses on Udemy to at one time and they did well but due to the US tax laws we pulled them and I suspect it has had the effect of reducing a large number of good trainers from using the platform. We put a lot of effort into training and one large course can take 5 weeks to prepare, My Katana one did for example, you have to do practice runs, record, edit ,It is a lot of work and then of course you pay Udemy for their cut, the problem is when we do our Tax we have to declare our earnings from Udemy in Australia which is fine and expected but what got us was the the US tax people decided to take a huge lump as well for Tax, so we got taxed Twice!! This made it simply unviable to do sadly and I think that is why you will find many more on Gumroad now, but its much harder to find them, you have to know about it.
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https://www.ak3d.de/all/3d_car_tutorial_book_animation/ That some training I bought a few years ago, never had time to do it yet but he's not a good trainer, but interesting course. One of those if they mess up, cover it up kind of tutorials where you don't get to see mistakes, I always leave the mistakes in as its a great opportunity to show how you fix them, yes it makes for a longer course but oh well. My katana modelling course on artstation was like that and ended up being about 80 videos.
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Kevin I did not answer part of question. When working in Rhino you keep copies of all construction data on layers so you can go back and re loft, but you will see soon enough why its a hassle if it were procedural, the only time I use history is to loft a surface and then have to make changes to input curves, but 98% of time I turn it off. You have to plan ahead and once you have the idea its still fast. The only tool that Rhino lacks and I can say this is real-time updating sections, currently you have to re-project the lines every time you want to check them unless you spend 2-3k on ORCA plugin which has it, awesome tool but not for just that feature. you could probably script it in Grasshopper or make a macro to do it but I am nota programmer by any means, thats my wifes role, she is the coder.
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To be honest Kevin most programs have some degree of history, Maya does, Max does Modo does, Rhino does BUT that does not make it a procedural program, what you seem to want is that, where you add an effect into a chain and can go back and tweak at later time.. personally I have never had use for it as it destroys the ability to be creative. you will find in hull creation its a burden not a help. if any other professional marine designers are watching , please confirm this. procedural modelling IMO is for small projects where you say for example add or Boolean solids and might need to tweak size of those solids after they have been filleted. In Naval Architecture modelling the tweaks are much much more targeted and might be aimed at just points on a curve or trims, things that cant be done on a procedural level without breaking the chain or redoing it. That my experience anyway.
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Hi Kevin 1 has history but it get slow, I never use it and dont need to. 2 yes and variable radius fillets, they are the most stable fillets I have ever seen. 3Rhino rarely crashes and if it fails there are tools to diagnose problem and fix surface 4 Rhino has more options and customisable but that's not important 5 I've done whole REAL ships with no slowdown 6 use IGES or nurbs surface formats 7All rhinos tools are solid and you will only end up using a small collection to do anything. 8 Never needed support or help but heaps of training and good forum exist If I have ever had an issue I have been able to find fix in google in seconds, always in forum or knowledge base. I am not really interested in comparing the 2 programs, I don't have time for that, Rhino is superior for marine ...period Otherwise its Maxsurf, ship constructor or some other boat design program that does the same thing, don't forget grasshopper to, Rhinos scripting interface that uses nodes, you can do ANYTHING in that and make plugins etc.
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All good? Me I am struggling to contain myself, I only have 4 6.5mm sheets to cut and framework is ready to assemble...but I'll be good.
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Oh and go into settings/ modelling aids and set you nudge to arrow keys, use small increments as you need going to be on CNC today but will check in after each sheet
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I would recommend tracing body plans with curve interpolated points use a few points as you can to get the shape and then play with analysis /curve curvature graph and practice fairing curves, plenty online about what is and what is not fair, but think of porcupines as exaggerated curve of the curve click and hold on this button and pick second one
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Another is curve from 2 curves Think this, you have profile and plan you trace the sheer outline in plan and trace the sheerline in profile, 2 separate curves, but you can select both and it will create the result which is what you want, but it needs to be optimised and it will be point heavy
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Just a tip, if you use image planes don't use the background image planes, I know it sounds right but you can only have one per camera and cant scale in 1D Type picture and choose picture from command line, this will let you load and image, as many as you want and scale however
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In saying that the books that have lines that have been recreated in cad already like Alan Mcgowan's you could safely trace and get a pretty good result but you have to happy with very minor defects in surface but meah... lets face it once 12 inchs of timber planking and wales is on and adzed it does not really matter.
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I will explain why Kevin Not Victory as such but any of those old ships of war have one very distinct feature in the lines that negates the way we modern designers do our job, normally we have single curve to deal with from sheer to keel or worst case sheer to flat of bottom where it meets the tangent of the rise of floor either way we can fair that curve easily but the old ships like Victory's Station lines are not "Fair "by our standards today but rather comprised of a series of arcs and curves that make a smooth shape but its not fair by our terms today, so every time we have to make corrections to a station we cant just adjust the waterlines and re section those to create new station because there are tons of subtle nuances in between those waterlines that make it very very hard, The stern and bow are not that big a deal, its the actual section shape. I hope that makes sense
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Realtime is really more about the texturing and materials nowdays, polycount is able to be quite high, of course you don't abuse it but yeah the baking from high to low poly is the only real difference. I use Modo and Maya for most of my Polygon modelling but incorporate rhino quite often in that to.
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I did consider HMS Victory Kevin but its about as hard as it gets and not for the faint hearted. I also thought about Sovereign of the Seas now the book is out. Its awesome, I bought it a few weeks ago
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Yeah I know its tempting to want a ship you need or have some interest in but the reason Cutty Sark was pick is it has a number of things you need to watch out for that will set you up in good stead. Guys don't freak out, its not actually that hard if you follow the right order and procedures, I have done this so long its second nature and even when I taught myself it did not take long. The Cutty Sark has the following points that make it a good subject. No actual as built lines exist All Lines are measured from survey(close but not 100%) The plans by NVM are superb and I will use them as they are works of art and inspiring but you will see how to assess errors and correct. The stern is of the overhanging counter type, which is the most tricky to do. You will learn how to take lines from lines plan and also from a scan , not much different. How to fair station lines and then how to fair longitudinally. How to develop true shapes of plates like the bulwarks around the stern How to set out planking on a hull. I will do it in sections so you can take your time
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If you guys want to get started I can vouch for this training. https://rhino-3d-classes-from-beginner-to-advanced-lev.teachable.com/p/rhino-3d-v6-xbow-ship-modeling-and-rendering-with-vray-level-2
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Ok here is the thing, would you rather live and have access to recording , or just videos?. Live you get to ask questions Videos you still can I guess but after the fact. Lets see what interest their is, not sure how people realise its the way of the future even for model builders, because as you guys know if you can make it in 3d you can build, CNC, resin print and even do photo etch although that's vector work. I was intending to do a course on her anyway, here was the initial idea on my artstation page. https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qArwVe
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I have messaged one of the moderators to see what's what. It wont be for a few weeks mate no hurry.
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OK then , lets see how to go about getting an online event happening and I will do a reconstruction of the ships form from scan data and the NVM plans and take it to the point where we plank the hull.
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Well why don't I show you how to do Cutty Sark from the real data from ship?
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This is a screengrab of my Rhino screen right now and the model I have in my other build blog being cut on cnc, this would take ages in 360 to so , this also has the ability to do true plate development of sheets, unroll developable surfaces so making hull panels etc in true shape is easy, that's another example. Guys give me a hull you can agree on to learn with and I will do the video/videos for you. Lets see what moderators say but I might even do it as a live lesson/course over zoom, that's easier for me and you can ask questions then
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Rhino does it all, it does Nurbs, Solid, mesh and SubD. Please don't take me wrong I am not on a mission to convert, but I know from my experience as a teacher and my work life Rhino is easier to use and more versatile, I have used 360 to and hated it but I am not here to try to convert, I am just saying if you want to have access to the proper tools needed to do hulls and for that matter the work I am doing on My CNC model you are better off with it, heck I taught Rhino to myself in 4 weeks and then got a job using it! And yes the skills translate across more or less
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Yeah its funny isn't it because marine and aero are not that dissimilar in terms of surface quality and the needs for fairness etc but you are right. BTW Rhino is $995 US in case anyone is wondering. But you have a deal I will do a video on a hull, deck, superstructure. I might do it for my store as I have training on Artstation already
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I know I have said this before but if you can stretch the budget and plan on doing this a bit you really are better off with Rhino ,in so many ways I can't sum up here. I know I am a professional 3d artist and yes I have years experience doing boats and ships but I believe anybody can do it with a couple of good tutorials in Rhino and knock out a basic hull in 4-5 hours, Rhino is also a lot less fussy about the input curves and very rarely fails. Not to mention the reason Naval Architects and Boat /Yacht designers use it should say it all. If anyone does try it I will gladly make a tutorial, I am a qualified teacher of 3d modelling and taught it at Uni for 5 years. I know it is not free but really it is a huge investment and you can do soooo much with it. Much easier program to use, more intuitive.
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