Jaager
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
I am guessing here, but what ever the angle of the rabbet is for the garboard to fit at the dead flat - that would be
continued fore and aft and the edge of the garboard trimmed back to match it. This would not really compromise
the plank and would preserve the keel. Also, at the skeg, the deadwood was cut into for the bottom plank lands.
In deadwood area aft as well as toward the bow, there is no advantage in a garboard that is thicker than the bottom plank. I have not seen any aft stations
where the curve is any deeper for the garboard..
The ship builders were not the sort to do any more work than was necessary. The hogging stress was mitigated by the depth
of the deadwood. A thicker garboard would = insignificant additional strength, and a lot of pointless work and material cost.
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Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Spiling Batten, Huh?
It was a typo - 8-7-6-5...
What I mean is that - say that you have defined 3 regions (using battens) between the bottom of the mail wale and the
top of the garboard plank to totally plank the hull. In one of the regions - you decide that a run of 8 planks meets the max/min
plank width ideal. You measure the opening at each frame (or mould/buulkhead if POB) Use the fan to determine the 1/8 of the total
for a single plank. Spill the strake and mount it. Now measure the opening and use the fan to determine 1/7 - spill - mount . measure -fan 1/6.
... You do not make up all 8 plank strakes at the beginning. It just does not work well to do that- there are too many variables.
The fan as well as directions for planking- infinitely superior to mine - NRG home page to data to resources to database to planking and framing.
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Jaager got a reaction from allanyed in Spiling Batten, Huh?
A batten is a temporary plank.
In one era - in prep for a storm, hatch gratings were covered with canvas which was held down with
wooden battens lashed to ring bolts on deck. "Batten down the hatches".
When framing a hull, widely spaced bends (a pair of overlapping frames- measured and cut) had framing battens
which ran horizontally from stem to stern and were used to both support the bends and act as a jig to help to
shaping of intermediate bends and (mostly English) the filling frames.
In models similar battens are used to find the sweet zones for smooth and attractive planking runs.
A spilling batten is a thin flexible "stick" to connect the dots to get the full curve to cut to when spilling a plank.
Spilling probably is a slang conversion of spoiling. Because a hull is a complex compound curve - rectangular planks
will not properly cover. The width constantly changes. An expensive wider board is trimmed - usually on one side only
- to fit the space. The waste wood is "spoilled" or later spilled.
For the last plank to fill a run, if lucky, a rubbing on a piece of card or paper can define the needed shape. For runs of
9-7-6-5-... a fan gauge is useful to provide the points to use the spilling batten on.
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Jaager got a reaction from rtwpsom2 in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
I am guessing here, but what ever the angle of the rabbet is for the garboard to fit at the dead flat - that would be
continued fore and aft and the edge of the garboard trimmed back to match it. This would not really compromise
the plank and would preserve the keel. Also, at the skeg, the deadwood was cut into for the bottom plank lands.
In deadwood area aft as well as toward the bow, there is no advantage in a garboard that is thicker than the bottom plank. I have not seen any aft stations
where the curve is any deeper for the garboard..
The ship builders were not the sort to do any more work than was necessary. The hogging stress was mitigated by the depth
of the deadwood. A thicker garboard would = insignificant additional strength, and a lot of pointless work and material cost.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
I don't know what to say about that rabbet. I see it as weakening both the keel and the garboard.
The upper half of the seam could not be caulked and it limits just how deep the oakum and pitch could go.
If I were the ABS, I would want to do the experiment. In use, there would be a lot of movement and stress along this location.
As far as the dubbing, that is from what was done at the wale. The 17th C there was a step function between it and the bottom plank - on either side.
This evolved into a smooth transition from below and a step function above for a time. By the 1850's
the transition was smooth both below and above, That there was a wale is not obvious.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
A wedge was not cut in the face of the garboard edge where it meets the keel.
The right angle face was kept. The angle of the rabbet was adapted to meet it.
Thus, unlike on the plan, it was not a fixed dimension internally.
This will fix your too deep notch at the top of the keel.
The object was to provide a space for caulking the seam, without there being an
acute angle to chip off on the garboard. There would be one if the keel were kept intact and
the face of the garboard was trimmed to mate it.
In a fully planked hull on a model, which face is trimmed does not make much difference, since it is
hidden anyway.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
Yes, and it looks better than I imagined. The hollow effect actually matches a memory I
have of a similar situation.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
I would change the angle of the rabbet to encompass the full garboard thickness.
Since the position of the surface of the frame is hidden when planked, I think that the adzmen
would only dub the proud outboard corner of the diminishing strakes off. The resulting smooth surface
would be a slope that is a bit more eccentric than the curve that you have plotted.
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Jaager got a reaction from rtwpsom2 in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
Yes, and it looks better than I imagined. The hollow effect actually matches a memory I
have of a similar situation.
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Jaager got a reaction from rtwpsom2 in Have I got this garboard layout correct?
I would change the angle of the rabbet to encompass the full garboard thickness.
Since the position of the surface of the frame is hidden when planked, I think that the adzmen
would only dub the proud outboard corner of the diminishing strakes off. The resulting smooth surface
would be a slope that is a bit more eccentric than the curve that you have plotted.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Spiling Batten, Huh?
It was a typo - 8-7-6-5...
What I mean is that - say that you have defined 3 regions (using battens) between the bottom of the mail wale and the
top of the garboard plank to totally plank the hull. In one of the regions - you decide that a run of 8 planks meets the max/min
plank width ideal. You measure the opening at each frame (or mould/buulkhead if POB) Use the fan to determine the 1/8 of the total
for a single plank. Spill the strake and mount it. Now measure the opening and use the fan to determine 1/7 - spill - mount . measure -fan 1/6.
... You do not make up all 8 plank strakes at the beginning. It just does not work well to do that- there are too many variables.
The fan as well as directions for planking- infinitely superior to mine - NRG home page to data to resources to database to planking and framing.
-
Jaager got a reaction from thibaultron in Spiling Batten, Huh?
A batten is a temporary plank.
In one era - in prep for a storm, hatch gratings were covered with canvas which was held down with
wooden battens lashed to ring bolts on deck. "Batten down the hatches".
When framing a hull, widely spaced bends (a pair of overlapping frames- measured and cut) had framing battens
which ran horizontally from stem to stern and were used to both support the bends and act as a jig to help to
shaping of intermediate bends and (mostly English) the filling frames.
In models similar battens are used to find the sweet zones for smooth and attractive planking runs.
A spilling batten is a thin flexible "stick" to connect the dots to get the full curve to cut to when spilling a plank.
Spilling probably is a slang conversion of spoiling. Because a hull is a complex compound curve - rectangular planks
will not properly cover. The width constantly changes. An expensive wider board is trimmed - usually on one side only
- to fit the space. The waste wood is "spoilled" or later spilled.
For the last plank to fill a run, if lucky, a rubbing on a piece of card or paper can define the needed shape. For runs of
9-7-6-5-... a fan gauge is useful to provide the points to use the spilling batten on.
-
Jaager got a reaction from lmagna in Spiling Batten, Huh?
It was a typo - 8-7-6-5...
What I mean is that - say that you have defined 3 regions (using battens) between the bottom of the mail wale and the
top of the garboard plank to totally plank the hull. In one of the regions - you decide that a run of 8 planks meets the max/min
plank width ideal. You measure the opening at each frame (or mould/buulkhead if POB) Use the fan to determine the 1/8 of the total
for a single plank. Spill the strake and mount it. Now measure the opening and use the fan to determine 1/7 - spill - mount . measure -fan 1/6.
... You do not make up all 8 plank strakes at the beginning. It just does not work well to do that- there are too many variables.
The fan as well as directions for planking- infinitely superior to mine - NRG home page to data to resources to database to planking and framing.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Spiling Batten, Huh?
A batten is a temporary plank.
In one era - in prep for a storm, hatch gratings were covered with canvas which was held down with
wooden battens lashed to ring bolts on deck. "Batten down the hatches".
When framing a hull, widely spaced bends (a pair of overlapping frames- measured and cut) had framing battens
which ran horizontally from stem to stern and were used to both support the bends and act as a jig to help to
shaping of intermediate bends and (mostly English) the filling frames.
In models similar battens are used to find the sweet zones for smooth and attractive planking runs.
A spilling batten is a thin flexible "stick" to connect the dots to get the full curve to cut to when spilling a plank.
Spilling probably is a slang conversion of spoiling. Because a hull is a complex compound curve - rectangular planks
will not properly cover. The width constantly changes. An expensive wider board is trimmed - usually on one side only
- to fit the space. The waste wood is "spoilled" or later spilled.
For the last plank to fill a run, if lucky, a rubbing on a piece of card or paper can define the needed shape. For runs of
9-7-6-5-... a fan gauge is useful to provide the points to use the spilling batten on.
-
Jaager got a reaction from John Allen in Spiling Batten, Huh?
A batten is a temporary plank.
In one era - in prep for a storm, hatch gratings were covered with canvas which was held down with
wooden battens lashed to ring bolts on deck. "Batten down the hatches".
When framing a hull, widely spaced bends (a pair of overlapping frames- measured and cut) had framing battens
which ran horizontally from stem to stern and were used to both support the bends and act as a jig to help to
shaping of intermediate bends and (mostly English) the filling frames.
In models similar battens are used to find the sweet zones for smooth and attractive planking runs.
A spilling batten is a thin flexible "stick" to connect the dots to get the full curve to cut to when spilling a plank.
Spilling probably is a slang conversion of spoiling. Because a hull is a complex compound curve - rectangular planks
will not properly cover. The width constantly changes. An expensive wider board is trimmed - usually on one side only
- to fit the space. The waste wood is "spoilled" or later spilled.
For the last plank to fill a run, if lucky, a rubbing on a piece of card or paper can define the needed shape. For runs of
9-7-6-5-... a fan gauge is useful to provide the points to use the spilling batten on.
-
Jaager got a reaction from Baker in Spiling Batten, Huh?
A batten is a temporary plank.
In one era - in prep for a storm, hatch gratings were covered with canvas which was held down with
wooden battens lashed to ring bolts on deck. "Batten down the hatches".
When framing a hull, widely spaced bends (a pair of overlapping frames- measured and cut) had framing battens
which ran horizontally from stem to stern and were used to both support the bends and act as a jig to help to
shaping of intermediate bends and (mostly English) the filling frames.
In models similar battens are used to find the sweet zones for smooth and attractive planking runs.
A spilling batten is a thin flexible "stick" to connect the dots to get the full curve to cut to when spilling a plank.
Spilling probably is a slang conversion of spoiling. Because a hull is a complex compound curve - rectangular planks
will not properly cover. The width constantly changes. An expensive wider board is trimmed - usually on one side only
- to fit the space. The waste wood is "spoilled" or later spilled.
For the last plank to fill a run, if lucky, a rubbing on a piece of card or paper can define the needed shape. For runs of
9-7-6-5-... a fan gauge is useful to provide the points to use the spilling batten on.
-
Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Ship modeling tools (Added additional items AGAIN) (GONE)
how "1. profile gauge " works?
It is a stack of movable pins. Push it against a curved object and it duplicates that shape.
One side is negative of it, the other is the positive.
The present versions are plastic and the "pins" thicker.
A potential use - getting a precise shape for the breast hooks for a close fit - gets defeated because
most of these tools are too wide to fit inside a hull - unless a heroic scale such as 1:36 or 1:24 .
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Ship modeling tools (Added additional items AGAIN) (GONE)
how "1. profile gauge " works?
It is a stack of movable pins. Push it against a curved object and it duplicates that shape.
One side is negative of it, the other is the positive.
The present versions are plastic and the "pins" thicker.
A potential use - getting a precise shape for the breast hooks for a close fit - gets defeated because
most of these tools are too wide to fit inside a hull - unless a heroic scale such as 1:36 or 1:24 .
-
Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
I save a lot of the foam packing - both peanut type and sponge sheets.
I use the pink stuff from Jim Byrnes to make custom glue spreaders
miniature versions of disposable sponge brushes - using 1-3 round toothpicks
and Duco cement (not much good for anything else - poor shear strength for me).
Any Way - perhaps you can cut some foam as an intermediate to protect the piece
for clamping.
-
Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
Thixiotropic means that when still - it is thick and acts solid - when shaken - it is fluid.
My guess is that it would be usful on a bond where normal PVA would flow off .
Otherwise, I imagine a downside - more difficulty getting complete coating on both mating surfaces.
If your Titebond II bottle is other than yellow cream in color, or has a strong acetic acid smell - it has deteriorated.
My guess is that your surface prep could be the problem.
PVA bonds by a chemical reaction - long cross linked chains. The surfaces must be porous. They must be close together.
I do not use finer than 220 grit abrasive and I scrape with a steel edge on both faces. The scraping clears sawdust from the pores.
Clamp as tight as can be had without crushing the wood fibers - Use a buffer of a softer wood species as an layer between
the work and the clamp face.
Ultimately, consider using an old school technique ( Underhill I think ) suspenders and a belt = glue and dowels.
I clamp overnight or 8-12 hrs. I wait at least 24 before using any mechanical force on the area.
-
Jaager got a reaction from grsjax in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
Thixiotropic means that when still - it is thick and acts solid - when shaken - it is fluid.
My guess is that it would be usful on a bond where normal PVA would flow off .
Otherwise, I imagine a downside - more difficulty getting complete coating on both mating surfaces.
If your Titebond II bottle is other than yellow cream in color, or has a strong acetic acid smell - it has deteriorated.
My guess is that your surface prep could be the problem.
PVA bonds by a chemical reaction - long cross linked chains. The surfaces must be porous. They must be close together.
I do not use finer than 220 grit abrasive and I scrape with a steel edge on both faces. The scraping clears sawdust from the pores.
Clamp as tight as can be had without crushing the wood fibers - Use a buffer of a softer wood species as an layer between
the work and the clamp face.
Ultimately, consider using an old school technique ( Underhill I think ) suspenders and a belt = glue and dowels.
I clamp overnight or 8-12 hrs. I wait at least 24 before using any mechanical force on the area.
-
Jaager got a reaction from lmagna in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
Thixiotropic means that when still - it is thick and acts solid - when shaken - it is fluid.
My guess is that it would be usful on a bond where normal PVA would flow off .
Otherwise, I imagine a downside - more difficulty getting complete coating on both mating surfaces.
If your Titebond II bottle is other than yellow cream in color, or has a strong acetic acid smell - it has deteriorated.
My guess is that your surface prep could be the problem.
PVA bonds by a chemical reaction - long cross linked chains. The surfaces must be porous. They must be close together.
I do not use finer than 220 grit abrasive and I scrape with a steel edge on both faces. The scraping clears sawdust from the pores.
Clamp as tight as can be had without crushing the wood fibers - Use a buffer of a softer wood species as an layer between
the work and the clamp face.
Ultimately, consider using an old school technique ( Underhill I think ) suspenders and a belt = glue and dowels.
I clamp overnight or 8-12 hrs. I wait at least 24 before using any mechanical force on the area.
-
Jaager got a reaction from lmagna in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
I save a lot of the foam packing - both peanut type and sponge sheets.
I use the pink stuff from Jim Byrnes to make custom glue spreaders
miniature versions of disposable sponge brushes - using 1-3 round toothpicks
and Duco cement (not much good for anything else - poor shear strength for me).
Any Way - perhaps you can cut some foam as an intermediate to protect the piece
for clamping.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
I save a lot of the foam packing - both peanut type and sponge sheets.
I use the pink stuff from Jim Byrnes to make custom glue spreaders
miniature versions of disposable sponge brushes - using 1-3 round toothpicks
and Duco cement (not much good for anything else - poor shear strength for me).
Any Way - perhaps you can cut some foam as an intermediate to protect the piece
for clamping.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Quick and Thick Titebond glue problems
Thixiotropic means that when still - it is thick and acts solid - when shaken - it is fluid.
My guess is that it would be usful on a bond where normal PVA would flow off .
Otherwise, I imagine a downside - more difficulty getting complete coating on both mating surfaces.
If your Titebond II bottle is other than yellow cream in color, or has a strong acetic acid smell - it has deteriorated.
My guess is that your surface prep could be the problem.
PVA bonds by a chemical reaction - long cross linked chains. The surfaces must be porous. They must be close together.
I do not use finer than 220 grit abrasive and I scrape with a steel edge on both faces. The scraping clears sawdust from the pores.
Clamp as tight as can be had without crushing the wood fibers - Use a buffer of a softer wood species as an layer between
the work and the clamp face.
Ultimately, consider using an old school technique ( Underhill I think ) suspenders and a belt = glue and dowels.
I clamp overnight or 8-12 hrs. I wait at least 24 before using any mechanical force on the area.
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