Roman

I'll get to do that same "Happy Dance" in the first week of January. A belated Christmas present to myself. 
 
Cheers 

He has a fantastic rope making machine that I have seen in action.  But alas at the scale I work at it would just gather dust as I use small line for my rigging. A thickness sander to die for with the HP and accuracy to not break down under a load.
David B

My Byrnes saw arrived today.  Early Christmas!

George, you are correct and I did not notice the previous reply to this question given by Clark.... I must clarify a misunderstanding about planers. Despite its name the sole purpose of a planer (not a hand plane) to clarify, is to make two surfaces parallel to each other while cleaning up the 2nd face of the stock. If the bottom surface is warped or slightly warped the upper surface although surface planed, will conform to the bottom surface warp after the feed & out feed rollers release their pinch. The tool that has the ability to true up the surface and remove the warp is the Jointer. On the jointer you would normally flatten or true one face and one edge, once that is done you can run the stock thru the Planer and both surfaces or faces will be theoretically flat and parallel.  That is the reason I posted earlier the pictures of the Jointer and the Bandsaw. The thickness sander Byrnes or any other behaves the same as the Planer. At least one surface must be true and flat for the lumber to be sanded to the desired dimension. To me, the Byrnes sander picks up where the planer reaches its limitations; that is stock thickness and finish quality. I am sure you have heard the comment from machinists and engineers: "with a Milling Machine you can do anything"! Similar holds true for the Bandsaw and the Jointer combined.
 
Respectfully
Roman

Obviously I can't speak for the man but I visited Jim at his shop a few months ago and he is very busy producing the four machines he offers along with the many accessories not to mention the myriad of projects he has at hand, so you never know. For those that are not familiar with him he is as you would expect an excellent ship model maker if he does not mind me saying so. In my book he is a renaissance man. Every time I have come out to see him, he has always been very gracious and accommodating. I don't know but when I visit his shop, it is a pilgrimage for me. God knows send him your requests.
 
Roman

dgbot has said it the best that can be said. Just my 2 cents worth. And yes I am a tool nut to the day I am no longer here.

A well fettled and well sharpened hand plane will true the surface of stock (especially the size being managed to produce model size timber) as well (actually better in many instances) than a jointer. One thing to avoid, for safety's sake, with a full size jointer, planer, or table saw is trying to mill small pieces. The other caution with power tools. One small slip or bobble can destroy a lot of valuable wood. I own several power routers but actually prefer hand tools for final work to avoid just that scenario.
 
Dave

To answer your question Richard, the planer is more for dimensioning wood. The thickness sander is more for finishing. They can, as you stated, perform similar functions (to a point).
 
For example, you would typically use a planer to square up a piece of wood and you needed to remove a lot of material to do so. And, by a lot I mean more than 1-2 mm. You could perform the same function with a thickness sander but, you'd have to make a lot of passes and potentially waste a perfectly good piece of sandpaper.
 
As I mentioned the thickness sander is primarily used for finishing to get a smooth consistent finish across the entire surface of the wood. Where you would want to use the thickness sander for dimensioning wood is if you're milling your own wood strips for a model and you're trying to square up extremely thin pieces of wood (where you don't want to remove a lot of wood).
 
Hope this helps.

When the conference was in Chicago I was helping with security and giving the vendors a hand I bought the Byrnes saw at a good discount.  I was able to cut much of the big stuff I had at work. But they frown on using company tools for private use. Insurance and liability problems.  All I had was a Preac. which is my primary saw. at the scale I work at.  I by rough finished lumber and use the Byrnes to break it down to manageable dimensions for my Preac.  I like having both and the Preac is the main saw I use for all my small stuff.  I do not like changing blades.  I usually get tools as they are needed.  As my budget is on the tight side and I am called cheap.  But if you plan on scratch building or kit basing you will use it allot depending on the size and scale you are working in.  I also have a Sherline lathe which gathers dust but is invaluable when you need a turning or doing complex parts.  On it I have machined, turned, and used a file on several parts on my Latham.  when not in use it will accumulate dust.  I also have a mill I pcked up from a member who was leaving the hobby and did not need it anymore and since I am not using at the present it is n loan to a friend.  I have also used it as needed when I was making parts.  But I can work without it just taking more time and imagination.  Am I a tool freak yea and no.  I like having tools but I do not gt them unless they make the job easier.  I would like to spring for a resistance soldering machine.  But the time it would save me is not much so why throw away money.  I am not in a race and have done much of my work with my hands and non power tools. money.  A small band saw yes.  So long as it is a decent one and those are not cheap.  Ed has a couple in his work shop and told me that the craftsman blade is difficult to keep aligned.  Because the wheel is round and not flat.  But I will wait until I get back to my place and have a stash again before I do anything else.  What I will spring for is a good solid chisel or a plane if it is good. Half the chore is learning how to take care of them and how to use them.  I have als purchased wood that I have not use for later.  Since I will be here for the foreseeable future. I have added to my tool box from Amazon and Ebay.  Are the tools pricey but are they keepers yes.  Always buy the best that you can afford they will last a long time and will be easier to use.  Also listen to recommendations and reviews, these will let you know if you are getting a lemon.  The Byrnes' saw is not a lemon but a great investment.  I also have a Foredom and drill attachment.  I have used it several times and with the drill press for drilling and very light milling.  I have seen many models over the years that were superb and the builders used nothing more than hand tools.  Power tools are for operations that will take a great deal of time and save you the hassle of redoing a part then go ahead and get it. But if yu are going to get them just because everyone has them then you do not really need them.  Save your money and space and invest it in the best tool you have.  Your mind and your hands.
David B

How do the Proxxon Planer and the Byrnes Thickness Sander compliment each other.  ( thought they did the same thing but with different approach, blade vs sandpaper??)
 
Richard

As the origin of this topic please feel free to keep this going , I know nothing about the variuos types of saws and am interested to learn anything i can , so i repeat feel free to voice all opinions and views they are of interest to all  .
 
Cheers Boyd

As far as I'm concerned, no need to apologize Marc. I have only been a member of MSW for a very short period of time. But, I've learned as much or more from this thread as I have from any thread since I've been a member. The great thing is, a lot of it will enhance my woodworking skills outside of ship modeling. Ironically, one of the reasons it has been so informative is the fact that it has NOT stuck strictly to the original topic.
 
I can't speak for the OP but, as long as I'm learning something new, it doesn't bother me to stray from the topic.

Marc, there could be several issues that cause the scroll saw and bandsaw blades to wander off track. One of them is force feeding the wood into the blade and not allowing it to cut at its natural pace. This causes the blade to dull up prematurely and it forces you to add more pressure to feed and correct the trajectory of the cut. The second has to do with the blade itself. Scroll saw and Bandsaw blades are fabricated by a stamping process that leaves one side of the blade or the exit side of the stamp sharper; when installed on the saw this sharp edge will want to push the blade to one side. This of course has to do with the quality of the blade. When ever possible try to use double skip tooth blades, this has a positive effect on the cut and will reduce the amount of sanding you will need to do as they cut faster and cleaner. The gap between the double tooth format allows the blade to remove the wood dust more efficiently from the kerf and keeps the blade cutting cooler without burnishing the wood; furthermore if you use a reverse skip tooth or double skip tooth the tear-out at the bottom of the cut will be reduced. Scroll saw blades are hardened along the cutting edge but not at the grip points( top & bottom )where they are malleable, this is to allow you to twist the tips and mount the blade sideways on your scroll saw. This action increases the length of the rip cut beyond the throat capacity of the machine. The Olson sheet provided as a pdf shows how to round off the back of the blade to improve its performance and prevent wander. This does not need be anything complicated you can use an emery board, a file or even sandpaper for metal. Give it a try.
 
Best regards
Roman



FinishingStone.pdf

Marc, there could be several issues that cause the scroll saw and bandsaw blades to wander off track. One of them is force feeding the wood into the blade and not allowing it to cut at its natural pace. This causes the blade to dull up prematurely and it forces you to add more pressure to feed and correct the trajectory of the cut. The second has to do with the blade itself. Scroll saw and Bandsaw blades are fabricated by a stamping process that leaves one side of the blade or the exit side of the stamp sharper; when installed on the saw this sharp edge will want to push the blade to one side. This of course has to do with the quality of the blade. When ever possible try to use double skip tooth blades, this has a positive effect on the cut and will reduce the amount of sanding you will need to do as they cut faster and cleaner. The gap between the double tooth format allows the blade to remove the wood dust more efficiently from the kerf and keeps the blade cutting cooler without burnishing the wood; furthermore if you use a reverse skip tooth or double skip tooth the tear-out at the bottom of the cut will be reduced. Scroll saw blades are hardened along the cutting edge but not at the grip points( top & bottom )where they are malleable, this is to allow you to twist the tips and mount the blade sideways on your scroll saw. This action increases the length of the rip cut beyond the throat capacity of the machine. The Olson sheet provided as a pdf shows how to round off the back of the blade to improve its performance and prevent wander. This does not need be anything complicated you can use an emery board, a file or even sandpaper for metal. Give it a try.
 
Best regards
Roman



FinishingStone.pdf

Marc, there could be several issues that cause the scroll saw and bandsaw blades to wander off track. One of them is force feeding the wood into the blade and not allowing it to cut at its natural pace. This causes the blade to dull up prematurely and it forces you to add more pressure to feed and correct the trajectory of the cut. The second has to do with the blade itself. Scroll saw and Bandsaw blades are fabricated by a stamping process that leaves one side of the blade or the exit side of the stamp sharper; when installed on the saw this sharp edge will want to push the blade to one side. This of course has to do with the quality of the blade. When ever possible try to use double skip tooth blades, this has a positive effect on the cut and will reduce the amount of sanding you will need to do as they cut faster and cleaner. The gap between the double tooth format allows the blade to remove the wood dust more efficiently from the kerf and keeps the blade cutting cooler without burnishing the wood; furthermore if you use a reverse skip tooth or double skip tooth the tear-out at the bottom of the cut will be reduced. Scroll saw blades are hardened along the cutting edge but not at the grip points( top & bottom )where they are malleable, this is to allow you to twist the tips and mount the blade sideways on your scroll saw. This action increases the length of the rip cut beyond the throat capacity of the machine. The Olson sheet provided as a pdf shows how to round off the back of the blade to improve its performance and prevent wander. This does not need be anything complicated you can use an emery board, a file or even sandpaper for metal. Give it a try.
 
Best regards
Roman



FinishingStone.pdf

I wanted to see if I could solve the ripping question without resorting to additional tools. (Ones that would really start to crowd my small workshop.) So started playing around with the possibilities with my existing tools.
 
As I though about it, I realized that I very rarely needed pieces that were more than 2" wide.  This thought came to me from working on the Triad cross section and the Syren. Of course other builds might change this but I could worry about it then.  Also,  I could always buy the occasional sheet of in three or four inch wide stock if needed.
 
So I tried an experiment with some 1 inch thick  by four inch wide basswood that I have on hand. 
 
First I cut the 4" wide plank into 2 inch wide planks. (so I ended up with two pieces that were 1'" thick x2" wide x24 long piece" 
 
Then marked a center line along the edge of one of the cut planks.
 

 
Next, with my Byrnes blade extended to its full height, I made two opposing cuts in the center of each 1" edge so the cut would meet in the center. ( I took this picture of the first cut while it was still 4" wide. Given the blade capacity, I would only get planks that were 15/16" wide after turning it on the side to cut out each piece. So I tried again by first cutting the four inches down to two inches, then made the opposing center cuts.  Of course I forgot to take a picture of this, but you get the idea.
 

 
The blade was large enough to overlap slightly at the center of the board giving me two planks that were 1/2" by 2" by 24"
 

 
I  put each of those planks flat on its 2" wide side and cut it into 1/8" and 1/4" planks at 2" wide. Below is a 1/8" by 2" x 24" plank
 

 
This should work as well if the board was two inches thick (actually with a 15/16" cut depth the maximum would be a little less than two inches.) 
 
As I read through this I see that my explanation is more complex than the actual production of the planks.  it also occurs to me that different cutting sequences can be used to obtain different results.  Rhis first try seemed to work for Basswood.  I will also have to see how it works on the boxwood and pear when it arrives.
 
I guess will need to see if 2" wide will really cover most of my needs.  While the 1" wide planks that I made in my experiment were too narrow for some of the frame sections on the Triton cross section, the two inch wide should get it.
 
If not, its back to figuring out where to put a band saw, and, now as I understand it, I also need a jointer. I wonder if my wife would let me make the sunroom our living room and make the living room my my shop.... nah, not a chance.
 
Richard

Marc, there could be several issues that cause the scroll saw and bandsaw blades to wander off track. One of them is force feeding the wood into the blade and not allowing it to cut at its natural pace. This causes the blade to dull up prematurely and it forces you to add more pressure to feed and correct the trajectory of the cut. The second has to do with the blade itself. Scroll saw and Bandsaw blades are fabricated by a stamping process that leaves one side of the blade or the exit side of the stamp sharper; when installed on the saw this sharp edge will want to push the blade to one side. This of course has to do with the quality of the blade. When ever possible try to use double skip tooth blades, this has a positive effect on the cut and will reduce the amount of sanding you will need to do as they cut faster and cleaner. The gap between the double tooth format allows the blade to remove the wood dust more efficiently from the kerf and keeps the blade cutting cooler without burnishing the wood; furthermore if you use a reverse skip tooth or double skip tooth the tear-out at the bottom of the cut will be reduced. Scroll saw blades are hardened along the cutting edge but not at the grip points( top & bottom )where they are malleable, this is to allow you to twist the tips and mount the blade sideways on your scroll saw. This action increases the length of the rip cut beyond the throat capacity of the machine. The Olson sheet provided as a pdf shows how to round off the back of the blade to improve its performance and prevent wander. This does not need be anything complicated you can use an emery board, a file or even sandpaper for metal. Give it a try.
 
Best regards
Roman



FinishingStone.pdf

This has got to be one of the best threads on tools I have ever read and that means not only MSW but everything on the NET.
All suggestions made by members on different type, make and models I have written down and will research each of them thoroughly (except the Byrnes tools). I have learned a lot here and the different suggestions on why a band saw and not a circular saw.
 
I use my scroll saw for just about everything.
 
I do have a question about band saws.
Can you do curves with a band saw (like with a scroll saw)? For example when you cut out frames?
 
THANK YOU
Marc

Richard if I am permitted to chime in on your question, the answer is yes but. Let me begin by saying that table saws are inefficient and dangerous beasts that occupy much real estate. I speak from experience as I have owned a number of them including a monstrous Altendorf F-45 capable of ripping 6 7/8" thick material (six and seven eight inches). It was not cheap and lets leave it at that. Someone else mentioned a Japanese saw and I agree with him. It will take practice and patience, but a Japanese Kataba saw with rip teeth will do a good job. They are not cheap but if you have the desire to spend the time they cut on the draw and have a finer blade than western saws. They are in my opinion easier to use.  A some what decent Kataba will set you back $45 to $60 U.S. There is also another Japanese tool called a "Kebiki Dai", it is a slitting gauge and can be used to make strips of wood. It looks like a western marking gauge.
 
 
You should consider a Bandsaw and a 6" Jointer and they do not have to be big. In fact if I could only choose one saw for my work the chosen one would be a Bandsaw. There is no tool in a shop that is more versatile and capable it takes very little room, quiet and has good cutting capacity far greater than a table saw even for a small machine. You need the jointer or a hand plane to true up or level the wood blank and the Bandsaw to rip, crosscut, miter, contour cut; put a sanding belt on the thing and sand. These two tools are easy to use and store as they are relatively small. I think Grizzly has a 6" Jointer that is even cheaper than the Porter Cable. I think the Rikon is $289 at Woodcraft less 10% and the Jointer at Lowe's around $269. Don't forget the tax.
 
Regards
Roman

This is going to be very interesting.
 
It is also stronger as the wood grain is running in the right direction. Utrecht has frames that are almost square,
so sawing them in one piece will seriously lower their strenght, as at least one parft of the frame is cross-grained. 
 
Are you also adding the frame pieces that are in the 'real ship' to attacht the futtocks to the floor-parts of the frame?

More pics of the build on http://veilinghaven.statenjacht.nl/het_schip/foto.htm (don't change the language to english, or you will loose all the interesting pictures )
 
And just to show you my pics of the actual replica:
https://picasaweb.google.com/101597346346552139735/UtrechtsStatenjacht?authuser=0&feat=directlink
 
Jan

Until I saw some of the workmanship on this site I would never have believed that having a saw that can be set to 1/1000" was necessary, for goodness sake, that's 3 - 4 sheets of printer paper!!! I guess the fact that it's capable of that is indicative of its overall quality though.
 
Personally, if the cash were burning a suitably sized hole in my pocket I'd jump at the opportunity (& get the sanding thicknesser also!). Mind you, I'd also want to know what the shipping was likely to be - it's a long way from the USA to the UK...
 
Row

Hello,
the nice words are a motivation again and again.
Thank you for that!

Under no. 244 of my building report I showed the production of hooks for attaching the gunport lids.
This version was not satisfactory for me. The original hooks were of flat metal, not from round material.
So I made the hooks again. This time I let them etching of brass sheet 0.3 mm. That's not very expensive.
The drawing for the exposure film I made with a vector drawing program.
And now here are some pictures that probably speak for themselves, better than my poor translation.

 

 

 

 
Here the comparison:
Links of the new hook, etched,
the right of the old hooked wire.

 

 
The last picture for today a look at the starboard side of the corvette.

Hello,
it has been some time since my last update to my building report.
So I made in the meantime other small but important details. So the timberheads received post covers in roof form.
Another detail to protect the hull from the anchor flukes was added.
 
Here you can see some pictures.
I hope that you like it,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to get something new on this page i thought i'd show some things while still waiting for more timber.

First are Micro SMD Leds, im hoping i can figure some led lanterns on this ship. Smallest leds i've ever seen, 1mm x 0.50mm with 0.1 copper wire. Probably going to buy more as there'll be around 37 in total.



Next is simply some pear i've got from ebay of all places sent from russia, im still an amateur so seeing brilliant high quality pear has a nice feeling to it, glad i've chosen this to work with.

To the best of my ability yes but the best equipment i have for that is photoshop, but it doesn't actually take that long to draw them all up i just hope i've done it correctly