kruginmi

"My conclusion:  Keep going as I have built."  Yes, and you're doing a fine job.
 
Bob

After dropping my son off this morning at 5:30 (AM!) at High School for sports stuff I decided to take the time I had and do some research on the trestle trees - I surely hoped I didn't need to rebuild these!  The norm for British design during this time was to have the mast centered between the trestle trees supports (but not touching).  French design was much closer to what I was seeing but....this was originally a continental ship so all bets are off, who knows how the person was trained who originally built this ship.  The issue was having sufficient clearance for the shrouds through the lubbers hole.
 
I decided to go back and re-verify I had not messed up in my construction, starting with the masting plans for the top:
 

 
Now these were drawn up for the cargo ship, not the as converted British sloop of war. The hole for the mast was just that, it could only fit the mast.  No more offset possible for the shrouds to clear the rear support.  Next up was looking closer at the one rigging picture supplied by Mr. Hahn (for the British conversion):
 

 
Again, the trestle support is seen to push up against the rear of the mast.  Also the 5 shroud lines are drawn to go in front of this support.  So...I didn't mess up.  The question is whether or not the shrouds will clear the lubbers hole cleanly in a neat and orderly way, without applying undue stress on this support.
 
My conclusion:  Keep going as I have built.  I would also keep the lubbers hold sized in the top itself as previously shown, exposing the trestle support.  This was reinforced with looking at 'Historic Ship Models' by Mr. Mondfeld which shows a pic of such an example.  

A little work today to transform the main mast rough in into a more finished look:
 

 
Added bolsters, metal hoops and then the wood strips to give ventilation to the shroud lines.  I still need the fid for the the topmast and to smooth over some right angles off of the cap (not to mention some eyebolts), but it didn't take a whole lot to polish it up.
 
I used walnut for the bolsters because I found a piece in the scrap bin that was the right dimensions.  Everything will be painted black.
 
The metal hoops was a piece of black scrap booking paper cut to size and glued on - single layer.
 
I had originally cut the top to fit tightly to the back of the mast (and cover the underneath support).  Putting the bolster in (length defined on the plans) however did not allow the top to be added.  The forward part of the bolster had to allow the fid to be affixed.  So.....I cut away a portion of the top inner hole for it to clear the bolsters.  
 

 
THE QUESTION: Is this correct?  I need to pull some books and scratch my head some more.
 
Mark

After dropping my son off this morning at 5:30 (AM!) at High School for sports stuff I decided to take the time I had and do some research on the trestle trees - I surely hoped I didn't need to rebuild these!  The norm for British design during this time was to have the mast centered between the trestle trees supports (but not touching).  French design was much closer to what I was seeing but....this was originally a continental ship so all bets are off, who knows how the person was trained who originally built this ship.  The issue was having sufficient clearance for the shrouds through the lubbers hole.
 
I decided to go back and re-verify I had not messed up in my construction, starting with the masting plans for the top:
 

 
Now these were drawn up for the cargo ship, not the as converted British sloop of war. The hole for the mast was just that, it could only fit the mast.  No more offset possible for the shrouds to clear the rear support.  Next up was looking closer at the one rigging picture supplied by Mr. Hahn (for the British conversion):
 

 
Again, the trestle support is seen to push up against the rear of the mast.  Also the 5 shroud lines are drawn to go in front of this support.  So...I didn't mess up.  The question is whether or not the shrouds will clear the lubbers hole cleanly in a neat and orderly way, without applying undue stress on this support.
 
My conclusion:  Keep going as I have built.  I would also keep the lubbers hold sized in the top itself as previously shown, exposing the trestle support.  This was reinforced with looking at 'Historic Ship Models' by Mr. Mondfeld which shows a pic of such an example.  

A little work today to transform the main mast rough in into a more finished look:
 

 
Added bolsters, metal hoops and then the wood strips to give ventilation to the shroud lines.  I still need the fid for the the topmast and to smooth over some right angles off of the cap (not to mention some eyebolts), but it didn't take a whole lot to polish it up.
 
I used walnut for the bolsters because I found a piece in the scrap bin that was the right dimensions.  Everything will be painted black.
 
The metal hoops was a piece of black scrap booking paper cut to size and glued on - single layer.
 
I had originally cut the top to fit tightly to the back of the mast (and cover the underneath support).  Putting the bolster in (length defined on the plans) however did not allow the top to be added.  The forward part of the bolster had to allow the fid to be affixed.  So.....I cut away a portion of the top inner hole for it to clear the bolsters.  
 

 
THE QUESTION: Is this correct?  I need to pull some books and scratch my head some more.
 
Mark

A little work today to transform the main mast rough in into a more finished look:
 

 
Added bolsters, metal hoops and then the wood strips to give ventilation to the shroud lines.  I still need the fid for the the topmast and to smooth over some right angles off of the cap (not to mention some eyebolts), but it didn't take a whole lot to polish it up.
 
I used walnut for the bolsters because I found a piece in the scrap bin that was the right dimensions.  Everything will be painted black.
 
The metal hoops was a piece of black scrap booking paper cut to size and glued on - single layer.
 
I had originally cut the top to fit tightly to the back of the mast (and cover the underneath support).  Putting the bolster in (length defined on the plans) however did not allow the top to be added.  The forward part of the bolster had to allow the fid to be affixed.  So.....I cut away a portion of the top inner hole for it to clear the bolsters.  
 

 
THE QUESTION: Is this correct?  I need to pull some books and scratch my head some more.
 
Mark

A little work today to transform the main mast rough in into a more finished look:
 

 
Added bolsters, metal hoops and then the wood strips to give ventilation to the shroud lines.  I still need the fid for the the topmast and to smooth over some right angles off of the cap (not to mention some eyebolts), but it didn't take a whole lot to polish it up.
 
I used walnut for the bolsters because I found a piece in the scrap bin that was the right dimensions.  Everything will be painted black.
 
The metal hoops was a piece of black scrap booking paper cut to size and glued on - single layer.
 
I had originally cut the top to fit tightly to the back of the mast (and cover the underneath support).  Putting the bolster in (length defined on the plans) however did not allow the top to be added.  The forward part of the bolster had to allow the fid to be affixed.  So.....I cut away a portion of the top inner hole for it to clear the bolsters.  
 

 
THE QUESTION: Is this correct?  I need to pull some books and scratch my head some more.
 
Mark

Dave,  
 
Rigging was a brain buster.  Armed with my spreadsheet I am totally at ease with what is needed where and that everything is totally accounted for.  Wonder why this method wasn't used before for clarity....
 
Mark

Thanks everyone.
 
Greg - I think crazy cases come to me naturally.....   The wife also had some thoughts but not necessarily case related (hah hah).
 
Not too much concrete ideas on the case, but it will not be a solid plexiglass case.  I am thinking wood corners with the sides having a reinforcing wood horizontal piece half way up.  The back would be a thin sheet of wood with some sort of motif on it.  Solid wood top and bottom (bottom obviously weighted).  I am hoping to keep the weight at a minimum.  Hopefully come spring I will be working earnestly on it.
 
I really enjoy having the core assembly roughed in.  Now as the details are built in the piece will really start to come to life.
 
Mark

Getting my head back wrapped around plastic AND working with a younger kid.
 
After gluing the lower deck in independently we painted then set the gun carriages in.  Yes it would have been much easier to paint the deck prior BUT....effective gluing down of the carriages required plastic to plastic.  The instructions show the carriages installed after the upper deck - who follows instructions?  Now, Peter was able to put them in with his fingers.  We had put some cannon barrels in previously to determine how far in the carriages should go (consistent with the dummy cannons).
 

 
A little extra glue here and there but nothing paint (now) wouldn't cover up.  I forged ahead a little with mine to show him what to do on his.  After painting the gun deck satisfactorily I now installed the upper deck.  A good squeeze to get in which mostly held it in place, with some help from some rubber bands.
 

 
Trying to follow the instructions and get the two decks glued in concurrently with the hull halves would be quite the feat.  With the process above everything is aligned and secure.  Painting all looks good and everything proper.  There are still two ships boats to host on the frames.  
 

 
Will I put the deck to deck posts in?  Still considering.  Relatively easy to do, just don't know if they are visible at all and worth the effort.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

And we are off.....
 
Peter has really learned not to just grab the glue bottle and get the model assembled in one or two days which really helps.  First step was to wash the parts directed for use today, the main hull and decks.
 

 
This model is not the easiest to position the two main decks into the hull halves (already talked about in a separate build log).  Last night, knowing this, I did some practice assembly to figure out the best approach for us.  Additionally, I wanted to provide the clearest guidance to Peter on where to paint and especially where not to (glue line for decks onto hull).
 
I finally came up with a modified path that I think will work.  The two hull halves are to be glued together by themselves (no decks).  Tomorrow the lower deck will be glued in by itself to be followed a day or so later (after the lower deck is painted) by the upper deck.  This seems to keep everything in control and accurate.
 

 
In the pics I just put in the deck, the hull providing the grip to keep it in position.  Peter can be let loose painting soon enough with not too much concern on my part.
 
There are deck to deck beams near the middle of the lower deck.  These are the only 'sticky wickets' as they say.  I am not too worried about them.
 
Now off to allow the four year old some painting on other crafts.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

With my 9 year old son now having three models under his belt (two ships) with my help:
 

 
He asked what was next on the horizon.  I was actually given an Airfix 1:180 HMS Victory model recently and I realized I now had two in stock.  So.....we are going to do dual builds.  The models are packaged differently but contain exactly the same kit components.
 

 
We are laying things out and mapping out our plan.  I am planning to do this one out of the box with no 'improvements.'  His model will be all him.  It will be interesting to get back into painting.  The paint in both boxes is quite old so I will buy new acrylics locally (as close as possible in color).  He is the only kid so far (fifth of six) that has had any interest in models so I am doing whatever I can to fan the flames - how can you do wrong with the Victory?
 

 
Looking forward to spending the time together,
Mark

Moving up the mast I now tackled the junction between the topmast and topgallant mast:
 

 
For a different method (stronger) I decided to turn the topmast portion in the cap circular for an integrated tenon.  As before I glued a faux cap over this for the mirage to work.  This is probably my preferred way for strength over using a dowel, but the flip side is there is no adjustment - you have to get it right the first time.  With a dowel you get an alignment step possible.
 
The trestle trees and cap were of boxwood since the size is getting pretty small.
 

 
I also have cut out the initial template for the main top.  Putting it all together:
 

 
Put some more details on those tops (along with some sheaves) and this will actually look like a mast!
 
Mark

And we are off.....
 
Peter has really learned not to just grab the glue bottle and get the model assembled in one or two days which really helps.  First step was to wash the parts directed for use today, the main hull and decks.
 

 
This model is not the easiest to position the two main decks into the hull halves (already talked about in a separate build log).  Last night, knowing this, I did some practice assembly to figure out the best approach for us.  Additionally, I wanted to provide the clearest guidance to Peter on where to paint and especially where not to (glue line for decks onto hull).
 
I finally came up with a modified path that I think will work.  The two hull halves are to be glued together by themselves (no decks).  Tomorrow the lower deck will be glued in by itself to be followed a day or so later (after the lower deck is painted) by the upper deck.  This seems to keep everything in control and accurate.
 

 
In the pics I just put in the deck, the hull providing the grip to keep it in position.  Peter can be let loose painting soon enough with not too much concern on my part.
 
There are deck to deck beams near the middle of the lower deck.  These are the only 'sticky wickets' as they say.  I am not too worried about them.
 
Now off to allow the four year old some painting on other crafts.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

Getting my head back wrapped around plastic AND working with a younger kid.
 
After gluing the lower deck in independently we painted then set the gun carriages in.  Yes it would have been much easier to paint the deck prior BUT....effective gluing down of the carriages required plastic to plastic.  The instructions show the carriages installed after the upper deck - who follows instructions?  Now, Peter was able to put them in with his fingers.  We had put some cannon barrels in previously to determine how far in the carriages should go (consistent with the dummy cannons).
 

 
A little extra glue here and there but nothing paint (now) wouldn't cover up.  I forged ahead a little with mine to show him what to do on his.  After painting the gun deck satisfactorily I now installed the upper deck.  A good squeeze to get in which mostly held it in place, with some help from some rubber bands.
 

 
Trying to follow the instructions and get the two decks glued in concurrently with the hull halves would be quite the feat.  With the process above everything is aligned and secure.  Painting all looks good and everything proper.  There are still two ships boats to host on the frames.  
 

 
Will I put the deck to deck posts in?  Still considering.  Relatively easy to do, just don't know if they are visible at all and worth the effort.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

Slowly slogging forward.  My son has a lot of stuff going on so I have to wait and not get too far ahead.
 
During a slow evening while watching my four year old I hand painted the hull on the port side.  This is hand painted because that is what he is able to do, no airbrushing or spray painting here.  I was slightly surprised that the hull follows the true planking for the most part, meaning their are no specific guide lines for the yellow bands.  You basically have the gun ports for alignment.
 

 
I had started with acrylics but for the hull switched to enamels.  The acrylics required too many coats for a solid coat of paint and the bands were too much to keep the straight lines going multiple times over.  I did affix the rear bulkheads underneath the quarter deck and paint a first coat of deck color around the outside edges.  Cannon carriages will be next for plastic to plastic adhesion prior to painting the rest of the deck.
 
The guide lines for the bulkheads do not totally align with the bulkheads so be careful if you attempt this kit.  I assembled the walls off ship and glued to the deck as a unit.  Probably a 1/4 inch or so between the rear bulkhead and its associated alignment ledge.
 

 
One big issue I had to resolve was how to paint the stern windows.  There is a slightly raised boundary but again, a 10 year old.  The solution I finally arrived at was to use a fine tip pen.  Yes, the color will probably fade but there is a chance Peter will affect something that resembles a window.  These windows are obviously plentiful on the stern.  I also opted to avoid painting individual pillars and just painted the section yellow.  I do have copper paint for the bottom.
 
My review of the kit:  These are old molds but still have a lot of detail that comes out.  If you are looking for every seam to be seamless and be an accurate representation of the Victory, this is probably not the model for you.  If you are looking for a fun project that people will recognize as the Victory then have some fun.  I look forward to the yard arms (curved and bent in all sort of angles).  No idea of how I will get them usable, but with a little heat I am hoping for the best.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark

BTW:  My son is focused on school and on swimming right now.  As you can see the build is somewhat on hold.  Still hopeful for sometime this year to re-ignite it......   Mark 

Slowly slogging forward.  My son has a lot of stuff going on so I have to wait and not get too far ahead.
 
During a slow evening while watching my four year old I hand painted the hull on the port side.  This is hand painted because that is what he is able to do, no airbrushing or spray painting here.  I was slightly surprised that the hull follows the true planking for the most part, meaning their are no specific guide lines for the yellow bands.  You basically have the gun ports for alignment.
 

 
I had started with acrylics but for the hull switched to enamels.  The acrylics required too many coats for a solid coat of paint and the bands were too much to keep the straight lines going multiple times over.  I did affix the rear bulkheads underneath the quarter deck and paint a first coat of deck color around the outside edges.  Cannon carriages will be next for plastic to plastic adhesion prior to painting the rest of the deck.
 
The guide lines for the bulkheads do not totally align with the bulkheads so be careful if you attempt this kit.  I assembled the walls off ship and glued to the deck as a unit.  Probably a 1/4 inch or so between the rear bulkhead and its associated alignment ledge.
 

 
One big issue I had to resolve was how to paint the stern windows.  There is a slightly raised boundary but again, a 10 year old.  The solution I finally arrived at was to use a fine tip pen.  Yes, the color will probably fade but there is a chance Peter will affect something that resembles a window.  These windows are obviously plentiful on the stern.  I also opted to avoid painting individual pillars and just painted the section yellow.  I do have copper paint for the bottom.
 
My review of the kit:  These are old molds but still have a lot of detail that comes out.  If you are looking for every seam to be seamless and be an accurate representation of the Victory, this is probably not the model for you.  If you are looking for a fun project that people will recognize as the Victory then have some fun.  I look forward to the yard arms (curved and bent in all sort of angles).  No idea of how I will get them usable, but with a little heat I am hoping for the best.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark

Getting my head back wrapped around plastic AND working with a younger kid.
 
After gluing the lower deck in independently we painted then set the gun carriages in.  Yes it would have been much easier to paint the deck prior BUT....effective gluing down of the carriages required plastic to plastic.  The instructions show the carriages installed after the upper deck - who follows instructions?  Now, Peter was able to put them in with his fingers.  We had put some cannon barrels in previously to determine how far in the carriages should go (consistent with the dummy cannons).
 

 
A little extra glue here and there but nothing paint (now) wouldn't cover up.  I forged ahead a little with mine to show him what to do on his.  After painting the gun deck satisfactorily I now installed the upper deck.  A good squeeze to get in which mostly held it in place, with some help from some rubber bands.
 

 
Trying to follow the instructions and get the two decks glued in concurrently with the hull halves would be quite the feat.  With the process above everything is aligned and secure.  Painting all looks good and everything proper.  There are still two ships boats to host on the frames.  
 

 
Will I put the deck to deck posts in?  Still considering.  Relatively easy to do, just don't know if they are visible at all and worth the effort.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

And we are off.....
 
Peter has really learned not to just grab the glue bottle and get the model assembled in one or two days which really helps.  First step was to wash the parts directed for use today, the main hull and decks.
 

 
This model is not the easiest to position the two main decks into the hull halves (already talked about in a separate build log).  Last night, knowing this, I did some practice assembly to figure out the best approach for us.  Additionally, I wanted to provide the clearest guidance to Peter on where to paint and especially where not to (glue line for decks onto hull).
 
I finally came up with a modified path that I think will work.  The two hull halves are to be glued together by themselves (no decks).  Tomorrow the lower deck will be glued in by itself to be followed a day or so later (after the lower deck is painted) by the upper deck.  This seems to keep everything in control and accurate.
 

 
In the pics I just put in the deck, the hull providing the grip to keep it in position.  Peter can be let loose painting soon enough with not too much concern on my part.
 
There are deck to deck beams near the middle of the lower deck.  These are the only 'sticky wickets' as they say.  I am not too worried about them.
 
Now off to allow the four year old some painting on other crafts.
 
Stay Building my Friends,
Mark and Peter

With my 9 year old son now having three models under his belt (two ships) with my help:
 

 
He asked what was next on the horizon.  I was actually given an Airfix 1:180 HMS Victory model recently and I realized I now had two in stock.  So.....we are going to do dual builds.  The models are packaged differently but contain exactly the same kit components.
 

 
We are laying things out and mapping out our plan.  I am planning to do this one out of the box with no 'improvements.'  His model will be all him.  It will be interesting to get back into painting.  The paint in both boxes is quite old so I will buy new acrylics locally (as close as possible in color).  He is the only kid so far (fifth of six) that has had any interest in models so I am doing whatever I can to fan the flames - how can you do wrong with the Victory?
 

 
Looking forward to spending the time together,
Mark

Thanks everyone.
 
Greg - I think crazy cases come to me naturally.....   The wife also had some thoughts but not necessarily case related (hah hah).
 
Not too much concrete ideas on the case, but it will not be a solid plexiglass case.  I am thinking wood corners with the sides having a reinforcing wood horizontal piece half way up.  The back would be a thin sheet of wood with some sort of motif on it.  Solid wood top and bottom (bottom obviously weighted).  I am hoping to keep the weight at a minimum.  Hopefully come spring I will be working earnestly on it.
 
I really enjoy having the core assembly roughed in.  Now as the details are built in the piece will really start to come to life.
 
Mark

Dave,  
 
Rigging was a brain buster.  Armed with my spreadsheet I am totally at ease with what is needed where and that everything is totally accounted for.  Wonder why this method wasn't used before for clarity....
 
Mark

Dave,  
 
Rigging was a brain buster.  Armed with my spreadsheet I am totally at ease with what is needed where and that everything is totally accounted for.  Wonder why this method wasn't used before for clarity....
 
Mark

Thanks everyone.
 
Greg - I think crazy cases come to me naturally.....   The wife also had some thoughts but not necessarily case related (hah hah).
 
Not too much concrete ideas on the case, but it will not be a solid plexiglass case.  I am thinking wood corners with the sides having a reinforcing wood horizontal piece half way up.  The back would be a thin sheet of wood with some sort of motif on it.  Solid wood top and bottom (bottom obviously weighted).  I am hoping to keep the weight at a minimum.  Hopefully come spring I will be working earnestly on it.
 
I really enjoy having the core assembly roughed in.  Now as the details are built in the piece will really start to come to life.
 
Mark