John Maguire

Thank you dear friends for looking in and posting "Likes".
 
A great deal of nitty gritty detail because it takes me longer to do things than the rest of you experienced folks. Three weeks of my posts probably equates to what one of you would do in a single work session - but I'm learning and having fun trying to look ahead and get the basics correct. In this instance I want to be confident that I am putting the "wale plank" in the correct place. Chris uses that as the starting point for the entire planking task. The wale will go on top of it later.
 
I have spent two days with my magnifying glass looking at the lower wale position in the manual, then checked the online photos of those of you ahead of me. Midships was easy to reconcile but the ends challenged me because he speaks about the natural lay of this first plank he refers to as the wale plank, not to be confused as I determined with the wale itself. The wale will go on top of and parallel to the wale plank. Is that normal or just specific to the instructions for this model?
 
First, the stem. From a natural lay of the plank midships, to continue the run forward to the stem would position the lower wale too high on the stem and also it would seriously close in on the upper wale.  Instruction photos show both Wales, in my opinion, parallel to each other and the deck line. The plans show the same. In order to keep the lower wale parallel to both the deck and eventually the upper wale requires  unnatural bending - or whatever it is called. No matter what I did, I could not see any other solution so I laid the plank under a steam iron for several minutes then with four clamps bent it unnaturally while clamping it to a tile at close intervals to keep the plank flat. Adjacent planking will be tapered to half width as necessary and with each plank require less unnatural bend.
 

 
Second, I have a similar but less drastic unnatural bend required to correctly route to the proper place on the edge of the transom. That seems to be doable without steam and still get a flat lay. Those planks will be attached tomorrow.
 
The stem and keel are made up of three pieces. Today I glued and clamped them off the model and shaped a rabbet while the glue set. Later, the keel/stem group was attached to the ship.
 

 
The rear of the stern was feathered. It looks irregular in this photo but is not - it was done with sandpaper glued to a flat piece of masonite. To ensure uniformity a couple of swipes was done on one side, then with muscle and visual memory the opposite side - back and forth. When the stern post is glued to the diagonally planked area of the transom it will leave a small gap (the thickness of the diagonal planks) between the forward face of the post and the aft face of the stern itself. That space combined with the feathering will create a suitable rabbet.
 

 
Now to let the glue set for a day because the stem is pinned in a compression mode right now.
 
Is it Happy Hour yet? .  .  .  .  .
 
 
 

Thanks, Don. Its good to know I'm not imagining things.
 
I finished sanding the transom edges - they came out well - and now I have spent too much time trying to reconcile the manual photos, plans and my model to get the lower wale positioned correctly.
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you for the likes and comments .  .  .
 
As per the manual, the lower wale location was defined today by using my micrometer as a caliper.  Those marks are not shown in the two pictures seen below. Its position is significant because it wraps around and runs across the top of the transom as the upper border for the diagonal planking so proper positioning is essential for an attractive transom. 
The manual suggests constructing the "finish" diagonally planked transom off the model, then putting it in place, all the while being cognizant that the top of those planks have to fit smartly against the bottom of the wrap around wale.
 

 

 
In the manual and on the box the finish wood for the hull and transom look to my inexperienced eye to be walnut but as others have noted in their build of this ship there is a discrepancy between what is supplied and what is described. I like the white underbody and painted black wale shown on the box and in the manual. Accordingly, with that color scheme I want the rest of the wood on the transom to be the same specie. That is what you see in the picture above after a single coat of sanding sealer. Visualize a black wale across the top of the transom and white at the bottom.
 
Thank you for looking in .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John Maguire
Seattle

Brian, Doc & Don,
 
Thank you for your helpful input on filling.
 
I have been away for a week and spent several days after returning completing the first planking. The shutters went on yesterday and today. 
 

 
The plank runs look terrible but they are all edge glued and ran fair and tight over the frames. I have neither high nor low spots. The demarcation against the ply is all smooth. The stern post was feathered prior to planking and the planks were also feathered at the stern post when planking was complete.
 

 
I have sanding sealer on the hull now and am preparing to build the "finish" transom. That is done over a paper pattern off the ship, then moved into place upon completion.
 
Studying pictures in the builders manual with a magnifying glass shows clearly how Chris planked his prototype, so with that and pictures of those ahead of me it is possible I won't screw up the finish planking.
 
 
 
 
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you Brian & Mark,
 
I have lined out the hull again and am attaching a bunch of pictures to solicit critiques. After a couple of days I'll remove the pictures so that I'm not eating a lot of forum data storage with trash.
 
This scheme probably won't need dropped planks at the bow or steelers at the stern though admittedly it will take a bunch of spiles. Is that a bad thing? I plan to edge glue planks to achieve enough width to enable spilling.
 
I particularly like the somewhat flat angle that the planks are at approaching the stem.
 
Please comment - I'll delete all the pictures in a couple of days.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Respectfully,
John
 
 
 
 

Thank you for the many LIKES and advices for staining. I am unable to identify the wood type. Don Robinson, Denis or Marten, could you please identify the specie?
 
Well, today I decided my work was unsatisfactory. Look at this.
 

 
And this .  .  .
 

 
So, I spent the afternoon with #60 sandpaper and ground back down to the glue boundary.
 

 
Now for reconstruction, here is a photo of the plan. Look to the relative position of the lower wale. The manual calls for a strake in the position of each wale and they call it a wale plank. Later in the build they instruct the builder to add a wale on top of the wale plank. So, to recap, the first task is to lay the wale plank. Please observe its position relative to other prominent features.
 

 
In the next picture you'll see I have heavily marked the wale position so that I can use Dan's "cover it with tape" scheme and be able to see the line through my tape. I then took a long 5mm plank and correctly positioned it below the gun ports and let it run with its natural flat lay against the hull. Notice please how it travels upward approaching the stem, contrary to the plan.
 

 
In the following picture you will see a completed REVENGE where the builder seems to have done exactly what is demonstrated in my prior photo. It is a beautiful model, by the way.
 

 
Now, back to the Builders Manual. In this photo they attach the wale strake, then on the next strake below it they begin to taper. My problem is that I can't attach the initial wale plank the way Chris did because of compound curvatures. He is a magician.
 

 
Here is another view of the correct position.
 

 
And finally, the next picture is the best available that illustrates the compound nature of the plank.
 

 
Do any of you have a technique to bend planks in unnatural directions? Not only the bend, but when you study this last picture it can be seen the plank needs to be longer on the top edge than on the bottom edge. I did this before, but not well and that is part of why I removed my last weeks work.
 
Spile? When I lay out tape on the hull - flat - as per Dan's suggestion to Mark and then remove and study the tape trace laying flat on the table it looks to me to be a spile candidate because the shape is so irregular and represents the width of at least three planks. However, if the wood can be turned to wet spaghetti that would sure be easier.
 
Please dear friends weigh in with your opinions.
 
Respectfully,
John
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Thank you for the many LIKES and advices for staining. I am unable to identify the wood type. Don Robinson, Denis or Marten, could you please identify the specie?
 
Well, today I decided my work was unsatisfactory. Look at this.
 

 
And this .  .  .
 

 
So, I spent the afternoon with #60 sandpaper and ground back down to the glue boundary.
 

 
Now for reconstruction, here is a photo of the plan. Look to the relative position of the lower wale. The manual calls for a strake in the position of each wale and they call it a wale plank. Later in the build they instruct the builder to add a wale on top of the wale plank. So, to recap, the first task is to lay the wale plank. Please observe its position relative to other prominent features.
 

 
In the next picture you'll see I have heavily marked the wale position so that I can use Dan's "cover it with tape" scheme and be able to see the line through my tape. I then took a long 5mm plank and correctly positioned it below the gun ports and let it run with its natural flat lay against the hull. Notice please how it travels upward approaching the stem, contrary to the plan.
 

 
In the following picture you will see a completed REVENGE where the builder seems to have done exactly what is demonstrated in my prior photo. It is a beautiful model, by the way.
 

 
Now, back to the Builders Manual. In this photo they attach the wale strake, then on the next strake below it they begin to taper. My problem is that I can't attach the initial wale plank the way Chris did because of compound curvatures. He is a magician.
 

 
Here is another view of the correct position.
 

 
And finally, the next picture is the best available that illustrates the compound nature of the plank.
 

 
Do any of you have a technique to bend planks in unnatural directions? Not only the bend, but when you study this last picture it can be seen the plank needs to be longer on the top edge than on the bottom edge. I did this before, but not well and that is part of why I removed my last weeks work.
 
Spile? When I lay out tape on the hull - flat - as per Dan's suggestion to Mark and then remove and study the tape trace laying flat on the table it looks to me to be a spile candidate because the shape is so irregular and represents the width of at least three planks. However, if the wood can be turned to wet spaghetti that would sure be easier.
 
Please dear friends weigh in with your opinions.
 
Respectfully,
John
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Thank you for the many LIKES and advices for staining. I am unable to identify the wood type. Don Robinson, Denis or Marten, could you please identify the specie?
 
Well, today I decided my work was unsatisfactory. Look at this.
 

 
And this .  .  .
 

 
So, I spent the afternoon with #60 sandpaper and ground back down to the glue boundary.
 

 
Now for reconstruction, here is a photo of the plan. Look to the relative position of the lower wale. The manual calls for a strake in the position of each wale and they call it a wale plank. Later in the build they instruct the builder to add a wale on top of the wale plank. So, to recap, the first task is to lay the wale plank. Please observe its position relative to other prominent features.
 

 
In the next picture you'll see I have heavily marked the wale position so that I can use Dan's "cover it with tape" scheme and be able to see the line through my tape. I then took a long 5mm plank and correctly positioned it below the gun ports and let it run with its natural flat lay against the hull. Notice please how it travels upward approaching the stem, contrary to the plan.
 

 
In the following picture you will see a completed REVENGE where the builder seems to have done exactly what is demonstrated in my prior photo. It is a beautiful model, by the way.
 

 
Now, back to the Builders Manual. In this photo they attach the wale strake, then on the next strake below it they begin to taper. My problem is that I can't attach the initial wale plank the way Chris did because of compound curvatures. He is a magician.
 

 
Here is another view of the correct position.
 

 
And finally, the next picture is the best available that illustrates the compound nature of the plank.
 

 
Do any of you have a technique to bend planks in unnatural directions? Not only the bend, but when you study this last picture it can be seen the plank needs to be longer on the top edge than on the bottom edge. I did this before, but not well and that is part of why I removed my last weeks work.
 
Spile? When I lay out tape on the hull - flat - as per Dan's suggestion to Mark and then remove and study the tape trace laying flat on the table it looks to me to be a spile candidate because the shape is so irregular and represents the width of at least three planks. However, if the wood can be turned to wet spaghetti that would sure be easier.
 
Please dear friends weigh in with your opinions.
 
Respectfully,
John
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you for all who have looked in and posted LIKES.
 
Thanks Mark, yes, I see what you say. I am trying to tighten things up moving forward.
 
The wood itself, even if perfectly fit, is in my opinion too light in color. It is not the walnut described in the manual.  Overall, the planking so far as well as the first layer is sufficiently tight that it does not need sanding sealer to further tighten and bind it, although I have put it on, followed by sanding.
 
At this point I think I want to use walnut stain to darken the wood. Should I plan to use Minwax "wood prep for staining"? Am I correct to think it enables the stain to color evenly? Do you think it will disguise my flaws? Should sanding sealer go on first or would it keep the Minwax wood prep from soaking into the wood?
 
Too many questions - sorry .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Looking great Elijah. Looks like you have it wired .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you for all who have looked in and posted LIKES.
 
Thanks Mark, yes, I see what you say. I am trying to tighten things up moving forward.
 
The wood itself, even if perfectly fit, is in my opinion too light in color. It is not the walnut described in the manual.  Overall, the planking so far as well as the first layer is sufficiently tight that it does not need sanding sealer to further tighten and bind it, although I have put it on, followed by sanding.
 
At this point I think I want to use walnut stain to darken the wood. Should I plan to use Minwax "wood prep for staining"? Am I correct to think it enables the stain to color evenly? Do you think it will disguise my flaws? Should sanding sealer go on first or would it keep the Minwax wood prep from soaking into the wood?
 
Too many questions - sorry .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you for all who have looked in and posted LIKES.
 
Thanks Mark, yes, I see what you say. I am trying to tighten things up moving forward.
 
The wood itself, even if perfectly fit, is in my opinion too light in color. It is not the walnut described in the manual.  Overall, the planking so far as well as the first layer is sufficiently tight that it does not need sanding sealer to further tighten and bind it, although I have put it on, followed by sanding.
 
At this point I think I want to use walnut stain to darken the wood. Should I plan to use Minwax "wood prep for staining"? Am I correct to think it enables the stain to color evenly? Do you think it will disguise my flaws? Should sanding sealer go on first or would it keep the Minwax wood prep from soaking into the wood?
 
Too many questions - sorry .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Nice, Doc .  .  .

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Nice, Doc .  .  .

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you for all who have looked in and posted LIKES.
 
Thanks Mark, yes, I see what you say. I am trying to tighten things up moving forward.
 
The wood itself, even if perfectly fit, is in my opinion too light in color. It is not the walnut described in the manual.  Overall, the planking so far as well as the first layer is sufficiently tight that it does not need sanding sealer to further tighten and bind it, although I have put it on, followed by sanding.
 
At this point I think I want to use walnut stain to darken the wood. Should I plan to use Minwax "wood prep for staining"? Am I correct to think it enables the stain to color evenly? Do you think it will disguise my flaws? Should sanding sealer go on first or would it keep the Minwax wood prep from soaking into the wood?
 
Too many questions - sorry .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

Mark,
 
Wow, looking GREAT .  .  .
 
Respectfully,
John

I have been closely following Martin and Dennis's REVENGE build logs - actually, their work was the reason I bought the ship. Awareness also exists that Apollo, Titanic87 and Malcolm are also building. 
 
Minimal experience on my part is the reason for this log. With so many advanced builders ahead of me it is my sincere hope that showing my work will invoke critiques and advance warnings for difficulties/traps that lie in my next to come steps.
 
My kit was purchased from the California distributor the week before Christmas. Next there are comments following an inventory of the large components. Comparison to kits already in the field might indicate if changes are being made by Amati.I am not sure if I'll try to inventory the tiny pieces. Here are my notes:
 
 
Inventory item 38: can’t find the part and can't find it in the step by step instruction.
 
Inventory item 251: should be 1x5x600 but is 1x4x600
 
Inventory item 39: supplied as two pieces not one - 39A and 39B
 
Inventory item 49: calls for 2 pieces  but only one required
 
Inventory item 121: calls for 4 but find 5
 
Inventory item 149: calls for 14 but have 16
 
Inventory item 153: calls for 14 but have 16
 
Inventory item 174: calls for 4 but have 5
 
Inventory item 188A and 233 are the same
 
Inventory item 197: supplied as 2 pieces not one - 197A and 197B
 
Respectfully,
John
Total Time 8 hours

Seven strakes on each side now .  .  .
 
Question please: some of the separations between planks, though very tight, have black lines for reasons that I don't understand. This supplied wood is light in color and not to my liking so I have been thinking I'd stain it, possibly dark walnut. In your experiences, do you think there is a reasonable expectation that the stain will neutralize that effect?
 

 

 
Respectfully,
John

Seven strakes on each side now .  .  .
 
Question please: some of the separations between planks, though very tight, have black lines for reasons that I don't understand. This supplied wood is light in color and not to my liking so I have been thinking I'd stain it, possibly dark walnut. In your experiences, do you think there is a reasonable expectation that the stain will neutralize that effect?
 

 

 
Respectfully,
John

Thank you Capt. Steve, WW & Doc. Also thank you for the many "Likes".
 
Another productive day at the Cougar Mtn. Shipyard. I think it was Martin who said planking between the Wales is a bit finicky - or something to the sort. Wrong dear friend - it is very finicky. The wood just doesn't want to bend that way. To do it otherwise would be to have the wales sharply swing upward approaching the stem and converge. The manual, box pictures and my sea eye wants to see the Wales run parallel to the deck and be evenly separated for their length. The only way to do that is to torture the wood. But, having said that the worst case is the so called wale plank that will be covered by the lower wale. In the photo, it is the lowest strake. Each plank above that becomes slightly less tortured. I have four in place on each side now, moving in the upward direction and the fifth and beyond look to be straight flat easy runs. I don't look forward to returning to bend a lower wale to shape, especially considering that it will need to have been tortured in the wrong direction and remain stable in shape so that it can be painted before glueing in position. Help. What is an effective way to bend wood the "wrong way"? Maybe a couple of minutes of steam isn't enough .  .  .
 
Here is a quick peek at the stbd side before clean up.
 

 
The port side, my learning side, was done first and does not have furniture quality seams between the planks. I have mixed some saw dust with watered down PVA and we'll see if I did a good job with the witches brew tomorrow when it gets a little sanding. Now it looks pretty messy.
 

 
Moving upwards from these four planks looks straight forward. No weird bends or torture.
 
In the downward direction I experimented by laying a plank adjacent to the lower wale plank and tracing a line with a pencil on the hull from bow to stern. I then moved the plank down to that line and did the same thing plank by plank moving towards the keel. They end up pretty much parallel to the keel, so hopefully the worst is over.
 
Thank you for looking in.
 
Respectfully,
John