Bill Hime

Hmm....  Here's the area that needs the rudder coat... between the two red areas.  It's fairly long.  There's two "slots" on each side of the stern post.  Maybe if I fill those in.....   ????    In fact, I think that will do the trick.  
 
It was a very bad decision on my part to plank the counter before installing the stern post.   Lesson learned.
 
  

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Looked through your entire build log this morning. Great work. As for switching from maple to cherry, great choice. Cherry holds crisp lines and is very stable, especially if you put it aside for a time and come back later..no surprises. It looks like your "give it a go" on the cannons went very well!
 
Beautiful craftsmanship here. I'm following for sure
 
Warm Regards,
 
Bill

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Hi Dave.
That says it all. And that a real drive to Acheave a better standard. Which explains your excellent work and results. 
Now back to the model in hand..
That's one excellent method of learning the planking method. The wood shows a much better curve than the tape you were using.
And the infill blocks will help no end.
Nice photo's by the way.
 
Regards Antony.

Thank you so much, Joe!  You're too kind!  It's really great to have a place like this where I can discuss the hobby with such friendly people.  I wouldn't call myself a skilled shipwright just yet, but I'm doing my best!  I'm glad you're enjoying the build log.  Writing it up and adding all the pictures is almost as time-consuming as building the ship itself!  

Hi ya Mark,
 
Found a pic I took of l'Hermione's rudder coat and the security chain details. I think your present coat looks darn good, but if you want to do a re-do, a picture might be worth something to you. I know l'Hermione was 25 years after Licorne, but things didn't change all that quickly, back then.
 

 
It's greased, sewn, leather. The maitre d'equipage (sailing master/bosun) says it's quite rugged, long-wearing, and flexible, so long as it's conditioned/greased regularly. Today, they use a Lexol type conditioner, but back in the day they would use the grease skimmed of the top of the soup vats (like British Navy slush) and hang poor Pierre out the stern port with a bucket of the stuff and a hand mop.
 
John

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Mark,
I think your rudder redo has been quite successfully redone...."done" being the operative word. I think the coat is a good representation whether you take a another stab at or not. Perhaps a Coleman lantern mantel dyed in tea would give it the sagging heaviness of weathered canvas. Thread count or size would not be as important to the scale as would the cloths ability to "hang".
 
She's looking quite beautiful my friend, you're courting her well
 
 
Bill

Mark,
 
Despite Robin's findings on the coat, you have made an enormous improvement - the coat too, as it was missing in your initial setup ... To take another try at that rudder coat seems the rght thing to do ... however, have you considered why the rudder coat might be left off in those other builds ... maybe it had to do with the unnatural look at the scale due to the limitations of the fabric ... you might consider a cooking adage: If it's not good (enough), don't put it on the plate ... would you really miss it if it's not on ...
 
Cheers

You're correct, Robin.  It's very stiff, probably from the stain.  I'll have to do some more testing and if I find a better way, I'll rip it off and re-do it.  And thanks for the compliment.  I am very stubborn  determined when I set my mind to do something.

Thanks for the "likes" and comments.
 
Milestone point tonight.  The rudder is finished.   It still needs another coat of Wipe-on-Poly but that will wait until the quarter galleries are finished and I'll do it all at once.
 
The second and third coats of stain did the trick.   The rudder coat looks pretty good in person.  Weird thing happened though, after the 3rd coat, the rudder suddenly got about a 10 degree rotation to starboard in it.  I think the coat may have shrank a bit... ????  I'm not going to argue with it as plan on have the yards rotated with sails in battle configuration (main courses brailed up and the rest set as needed).  I'm still researching this part as to what would be "normal".  The only thing not on the rudder is the emergency steering lines as from what I've read, they weren't put on unless needed.
 
Anyway, the pictures.... 
 
This was more for my benefit to check that the mortices for the main tiller and the emergency tillers were in the right locations.

 
The rest are just assorted shots of the rudder. 
 

 
I think I'll take the rest of the night off and tomorrow finish sorting out the design for the quarter galleries.   Hahn's plans and the NMM plans don't show the shape from above but there's enough hints from the stern view and side view to know that it's a semi-circle  and sticks out on the sides beyond the transom.

That's a nice detail, not often modelled. It's a tricky item, so good for you!

Thanks for the "likes" and comments.
 
Rudder coat time....
 
I tested several materials ranging from paper, silkspan, to handkerchief and a pillowcase.   I decided the pillowcase cloth would best replicate canvas.   After sorting out design and how I was going to mount it, I stained the cloth with some wood stain to give it tarred canvas look and when dry attached it to the rudder.
 

 
I've attached the rudder to the ship and glued down the rudder coat.   It's looking splotchy so I'll see what happens when the glue fully cures out.  I might just brush on some more stain but the worse case is that I'll paint it.  
 
The French didn't use a metal ring like a lot models show (here on MSW anyway) but nails.  Since those are 1" nails (full-size), I'm not going to try to duplicate them although I'm testing a method for simulating them...
 

 
More on the rudder, later, as there's still more details to finish up.

I decided to make another attempt at spiling a plank in order to see if I could get better results with my new filler blocks.  I was quite pleased with how everything turned out!  I used two different spiling methods, to see which I preferred...  The first method was with my painter's tape, and the second was using a compass to trace the curvature of the bottom edge of the bulwark onto an index card laid across the bulkheads (I'll be showing this method, although both worked for me).  One thing I learned was to always transfer the traced curvature to an index card and cut it out for test fitting so that I wouldn't waste any of my precious sheetwood.  In this photo, you can see the index card with the traced curve cut out:
 

 
This photo shows the curve transferred to my sheetwood, with the curvature of the other edge also marked, according to the plank spacing at each bulkhead:
 

 
This was just a rough practice run, so I simply cut the plank out along these lines without allowing any extra clearance.  I wanted to give my spiling technique the ultimate test, to see how closely the plank would fit based solely on my tracing, without any additional tweaking.
 

 

 
I didn't even bother sanding/filing the edges, and soaked the spiled plank immediately in hot water for a few minutes (I found that the lime softens very quickly after only a short time in hot water).  I am awating the arrival of a plank bender, but since I don't have it yet, I simply bent the plank around the bulkheads and held it in place for a few minutes.  It came out looking like this:
 

 
In this photo, you can see how well the spiled and bent plank hugs the curvature of the hull:
 

 
You can also see how the bottom edge of the plank no longer creates the clinker effect, sitting flat against filler blocks:
 

 
Finally, here's a photo of me holding the plank in position (pretty nice fit for a rough-cut practice plank, right?):
 

 
I have only created one bow block thus far, but I'm quite pleased with how things are looking at this point.  I know that the stern blocks will be tougher to shape, but I'll give it my best effort.  Anyway, this is the result of approximately 50 hours of work, in total.  Let me know what you think!
 
One of the things I'd like to do is use scale plank lengths.  They are more historically accurate, and they will make spiling easier because curves tend to become less accurate as the length of the spiled plank increases.  However, I'm a little lost as to how to set up the staggering for the butt joints.  I've seen butt joint guides for deck planking, but I'm not sure how easily that would translate into hull work.  Any suggestions, guys?  

WOW Dave
After looking over your build log, I have to take my hat off to you.
To begin with this being your first build and the job you are doing is just amazing.
Next thing is, it is one thing to do this kind of stuff and have power tools to do the job.
It looks like you are doing this with hand tools sandpaper and determination.
So to do all this and obtain the results you have, makes you a true and skilled shipwright.
Joe

At this point, I decided to take a practice run at spiling a plank.  I do not have any pictures of this process, but it doesn't really matter, as the results were less than adequate!    Using some painter's tape, I attempted to lay the tap flat along the bulwark, making sure it did not bend or buckle (I soon found out that this is the wrong method of laying the tape, and leads to an improper curvature in the resulting spiled plank).  I traced the bottom edge of the bulwark using the side of my pencil lead, also marking the positions of each bulkhead on the tape.  Then, I laid the tape on my sheetwood and used my tick strip to mark the plank spacing at each bulkhead onto the tape.  Using my ship's curve, I drew a line that connected all the plank spacing marks.  Next, I cut the plank out and gave it a test fit.  The curvature was not correct at the bow, so the bottom edge of the plank flared out away from the bulkheads.  This would have given me a clinker effect, so I tossed the plank and made a few more attempts, none of which were particularly successful or up to my standards.  
 
There were a few things I learned during this process.  The first was that I was laying the tape down incorrectly.  By laying the tape against the bulwark (which is vertical), I was essentially transferring a curve that would result in a plank that would lie vertically (i.e., the bottom edge of the plank would not sit flat against the bulkhead, which curves inward -- the classic clinker effect).  The proper way to do this is to lay the tape at the same angle at which the spiled plank will lie (i.e., lay it on the bulkheads).  This gives a curvature that will allow the plank to remain flush with the curves of the bulkheads while following the edge of the previous plank (in this case, the bulwark).  The next thing I learned was that my model's design creates a very poor surface upon which to lay my tape (thanks to Chuck for giving me some insight/advice on this one).  I found that when I tried to lay my tape along the bulkheads, which drastically change angles as you move to the fore end (going from a U-shape to a V-shape, when looking at the bow from the front), the tape would buckle and bend in odd ways.  This has to do with the fact that the hull is more spherical than cylindrical, and wide tape does not sit properly on a spherical surface.  The other thing that made it hard was the spacing between my bulkheads.  With nothing in between the bulkheads, the tape does not lie in such a way as to replicate the shape of the spiled plank hugging the curves.  These two issues combine to make it very difficult to lay the tape well enough to get a consistent curvature, which leads to inaccuracies in the spiled plank.  
 
It was clear that in order to keep my spiling process from becoming a nightmare, I would have to make some filler blocks to sit between the bulkheads at the bow and stern (or possibly the entire length of the ship).  I did not want to have to make these out of basswood, as I've found from my previous experience with basswood that it is rather difficult to shape with only my files/sanding sticks.  So, I went out and bought some 3/32" sheets of balsa, which I knew would be easy to shape.  The first thing I did was use my calipers to measure the distance between the bulkheads (I decided to begin in the third space from the stem):
 

 
Next, I transferred this measurement to the balsa sheet, and cut out the proper width using my steel ruler and X-Acto:
 

 
I made sure that it fit properly:
 

 
Then, with the piece of balsa flush against the bottom of the bulwark, I bent a spare plank around the bulkheads and traced the curvature of the outer edge of the plank:
 

 
I cut the piece a little longer than this mark, and performed a test fitting, making sure the piece stuck out further than the bulkheads.  I continued this process, creating more and more of these balsa "wafers" and stacking them in the space between the bulkheads:
 

 

 

 
When this was done, I took my "wafers" (which I had numbered), and glued them together, one by one, with CA glue.  When the pieces had been bonded, I took my sanding stick and started shaping the block by hand, carefully following the curvature from one bulkhead to the other.  Here is a photo of the block, roughly sanded:
 

 
I continued this process for the next bulkhead spaces (in this photo, you can see the dots I used to number the "wafers"):
 

 
Here's another shot of the bow blocks about halfway through the sanding process (you can see a few ridges in the block in the third space, where two of my wafers were not quite long enough;  this is fine, as the plank is much wider than these ridges, and will still lie flat against this area because of the surrounding filler material):
 

 
The process was:  sand, check, and repeat.  When I was done, the blocks looked like this:
 

 

 

 
Everything looked and felt smooth, so I was pleased with the results.

Antony and Bill, I deeply appreciate your compliments!  I can assure you that this is, in fact, my first wooden ship model!  Whenever I undertake any new project (not simply models), I do my best to do the proper research beforehand, and I put a lot of pressure on myself to produce results that are as close to perfect as I can manage.  While I am pleased with my work thus far, there are several aspects of this build that I know I could have done better, and they loom in the back of my mind (for instance, I think about that broken scarf joint between the stem and keel piece every single day).  I'm sure that is common for most modelers, and I hope to improve my skills with each and every build!  The support, encouragement, and advice from the members of this forum have been an absolute joy to me during this build, and I thank you all!  Now, let's get on with the latest update!
 
Before I started planking, I needed to get my hull completely lined off into planking bands.  Picking up where I left off, I copied the measurements of the bands I had made on the port side of the hull and marked them on the starboard side.  Then, I applied my thin tape and adjusted the lines until they looked "right" and were symmetrical with the other side:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Next, I made some new tick strips, labeling them on one side with "P" for port and "S" for starboard on the other side.  This allows me to use the same tick strip for both sides of each bulkhead.  
 

 
I carefully marked the location of each piece of tape on my tick strips (in this photo, the top of the tape indicates the edge of the plank in the second band, so I measured the size of the first band starting from the bottom of the bulwark to the top of the tape):
 

 
Next, I compared my tick strip to the planking fan, finding the point at which 4 planks would fill the band, and marking the spacing of each plank on the strip:
 

 
Finally, I transferred the plank spacing marks to my bulkheads and then removed the tape.

Wow Dave, everything looks great to this point! Your attention to detail and execution are that of an seasoned shipwright. And nice bump for one of our members, Jason at Crown Timberyard.
Look forward to our next session! And Antony just gave me an idea; building a humidor to store ship lumber and even the hull during construction
 
Bill

Wow Dave, everything looks great to this point! Your attention to detail and execution are that of an seasoned shipwright. And nice bump for one of our members, Jason at Crown Timberyard.
Look forward to our next session! And Antony just gave me an idea; building a humidor to store ship lumber and even the hull during construction
 
Bill

Wow Dave, everything looks great to this point! Your attention to detail and execution are that of an seasoned shipwright. And nice bump for one of our members, Jason at Crown Timberyard.
Look forward to our next session! And Antony just gave me an idea; building a humidor to store ship lumber and even the hull during construction
 
Bill

Wow Dave, everything looks great to this point! Your attention to detail and execution are that of an seasoned shipwright. And nice bump for one of our members, Jason at Crown Timberyard.
Look forward to our next session! And Antony just gave me an idea; building a humidor to store ship lumber and even the hull during construction
 
Bill