fmartins

Hi Mark!
I'm late to your log, but I'm happy I took the time to read the whole build log from the start. This has been a masterclass for me, since I had no idea of the complexity of a plank on frame model. I wish I could do something like this... I really enjoy your detail-oriented spirit. She's just beautiful, no other words suffice. Congrats!!! I'll keep following in the back of the room, just taking notes to myself...

...figuring out how to do the same thing in styrene and carbon fiber
 
I have to agree on your assessment of the planking job, it appears to be flawless, except for that one spot only Mark can see that still irritates him. But it has to be extremely close to the ideal curves in both axes with a finish that's just as good.
 
Mark, one question since unfortunately I don't have the time Martin needed to read >119< pages of build log, but what are you doing the black finish with? I'm new of course, and knowledgeable in woodworking and wood finishes but not ship modeling. Are you doing the black with a thinned paint, a pigment-based stain, or dye? 
 
This might be too big a question, but when it comes to the semi-natural wood finish category like this, how do you decide what is painted, what isn't, and what you want to do with different species of wood, and how do you choose which species and what bits are dark and what are light? In short, are there some basic rules about designing this kind of finish you could quickly explain? If there aren't some simple rules that would be a really lengthy answer and I'll do some reading. I am still much more likely to do full painted finishes, but I'd like to know how to approach the problem if I decide to do a finish like this.
 
I think these finishes are gorgeous when well done and also makes the result cross over much more as a pure objet d/art,  but I will have a hard time spending all that time on making the physical object as realistic as humanly possible only to not continue with the finish in the same mode. Which is more or less saying "my disorder is more severe than yours, pray for me" but hey ;-)

Hi Mark!
I'm late to your log, but I'm happy I took the time to read the whole build log from the start. This has been a masterclass for me, since I had no idea of the complexity of a plank on frame model. I wish I could do something like this... I really enjoy your detail-oriented spirit. She's just beautiful, no other words suffice. Congrats!!! I'll keep following in the back of the room, just taking notes to myself...

A lot of variation was in the details that at first glance are overlooked. Hull shape, displacement, planking patterns, rigging practices, materials used and the unseen such as framing like Mark said. To most of us these things are hard to pick out but to a ship's Captain, these details could be noticed at great distance. They were some of the features that allowed them to recognize an enemy ship in disguise vs a friendly. 
 
A lot of combinations of different countries building styles would cross over though. Like most things, builders would see a ship that worked well and try to copy it to make it their own. Limited by the resources available to them due to either geographical locations, money or war, they would adapt to make it work. For instance, if they were having a hard time finding large trees for planking, smaller planks might be used or a mast may be built of multiple trees cut and bound together. Even "sister" ships could have differences in details if the first ate up more resources than the second.
 
Another factor was the architect. During a big build time, there would have been several architects who each would design and build slightly different. While staying true to the countries overall building practices, they would add their personal touches to the design in the ultimate goal to build the best ship.
 
This is one of the more fascinating features about this hobby to me. Each ship has it's own uniqueness in design, usage and history. Some vessels we know a lot about and others, even famous ones, we are still learning. While most of these things do not need to find their way into every model we build and honestly would be impossible at the scale you are currently building, they are still worth reading about if you are interested in ship architecture. English ship building practices are some of the most and best documented around but there are some good articles on French and Dutch building practices also.

Thanks Davyboy, I'll take a look and buy a copy if in a good price. Unfortunately brazilian currency has devalued quickly and too much last year so even cheap books are not cheap for us anymore  :( ....
 
EJ_L, thanks again! I'll follow your suggestions!  :D

Having relatives over can be really stressful... they don't offer any help and expect everything ready at hand... My helper (cat) flees every time she sees a child... but I still managed to finalize glueing the wales... 
 



 
The dreaded planking will start soon, I'm still working on how to do it. I'm thinking abou doing it a bit more in detail and with care from the first wale up. From the wales down (waterline to be morw exact) I will paint it like the parisian model. So, just a good sanding and some Tamiya putty will make it look good. Has anyone tried this putty with wood? With my plastic models it works wonders...
 
I'll also finish the upper decks and glue them soon... just as long as my relatives don't kill me first... :angry:    

Since the gunports are not really in scale, I had to trim the wales much more than in the original ship...     
 

 
I'll have some relatives over for the next few days so no new posts for now... I'll also try to think about the planking and figure out how to do it... any comment and/or advise is appreciated...

I was trying a few strips of veneer.. I have this beautiful yellowish wood I was thinking about using.
 
Here I was seeing if it would look good...
 




 
And the color kinda matches to color on the Parisian model...
 

 
What's your opinion on that?
 
 

Now, the same thing on the other side...
 

 
Checking for symmetry...
 

 
Glued...
 

 
Checking again...
 

 
 
Looks good...     
 

Oh, and I forgot.... I promised before a picture of the carriages under the deck... It will be barely visible in the end, but I know it's there... and now you guys too     
 



 
So far so good..

Well, wales glued... since the gunports are not in scale, I had to start cutting a bit. According to the plans, a few gunports cut into the wales but not so many as in my model... now I'm gonna have to live with it... living and learning...
 



 
On my next model I'll be more careful about proportions. These bigger gunports make the boat look smaller overall instead of a larger ship as she was...
 
 

After a lot of sanding I was ready to the wales on the right (starboard?) side. With balsa wood pins would be pretty much useless so I resorted to use rubber bands and some tape to set the wales in place. I used  CA glue sparingly on the bow and transom, just a bead to make sure they would hold.
 




 
 

With the hull faired, I decided (wrongly I suppose) to glue the wales... I got a bunch of pink cedar strips lying around...
 

 
But I was afraid of not being able to curve them properly. I saw a couple bending jigs and tried the best with a plank of styrofoam, a side picture of the Royal Louis (covered in tape so it wouldn't glue to the paper) and a few ball-point pins. No need for water or steam as they are really thin.
 


 
A redimensioned side view of the ship to see if it would fit...
 

 
So far it looks good...

As for the gratings, I tried to make them in wood, but even the smallest I could do was so off in terms of scale that even I who don't really care for scale in this size wasn't pleased.
 
So, improvising as usual, i just printed the gratings....
 

 
Some more details added
 


 
the same for the second deck (still need to paint the stairs red like the parisian model).
 

 
I also started building some more detail at the transom.
 

 

After a few attempts, I think that the deck planking was not so horrible...
 


 
The hole you guys see in the middle section was the fruit of my illusion to add some real miniature grating      ... All the gunports were also painted red. Due to the small size, I think I'll have to use CA glue to secure the bow planks in place, so instead of wood, I carved/sanded a plastic piece (to make it easier, I think...).
 
The same was done with the other decks...
 

 
With a bit of improvised weathering (yeah everything's improvised!!!      )
 

 
 

To fix the 'flexibility' problem, I also added some wood (balsa - I know it's not the best, but it was easy to find, easy to glue, and really easy to sand) between the bulkheads.
 

 

 

 
This made all the fairing thing much easier... (improvised sand block in the lastpicture...     )
 
The problem with the wood-covered styrene deck is that it's really flat. I could sand it to give it a more natural curve, but instead I thought of something else...
 
I had some thick card paper lying around so I improvised some deck planking on top of it... Also, it's not the standard deck planking pattern (I only found a tutorial on deck planking a long way after I had done it).
 
It's a bit out of scale but whatever, it's already pretty small for me      ... 
 
 
 

To deal with the fleixibility and to keep bulkheads at a 90 degree angle with the false keel, I glued a lot of rubber blocks between them... I also added the space for the cannon ports...
 

 
The decks, however, were not glued. It was just a dry run to see if they would fit. I also started fairing the bulkheads, but with extreme care because, again, it was a bit fleixble      ...
 
 
 

Before anything, English is not my mother language so please be kind to my mistakes (there will be too many I'm afraid) and lack of nautical jargon.
 
Well, this is my first build. You may think it's a pretty bold move for a beginner to model such an intricate ship as the Royal Louis but I fell in love at first sight with the model at the Musée National de la Marine in Paris a couple years ago. At the time, I had no interest whatsoever in ship modeling, which is a pity, and missed the opportunity of taking hundreds of pictures at the museum. Either way, that's the one...
 

 
The model at the museum is huge - I think it's larger than 2.5 meters (8.2 feet?). I wanted to build a model ship like everyone in the forum but I live in a small appartment in Sao Paulo Brazil so I had to settle for something smaller. I also didn't want to buy a kit (another risky choice for a rookie) so I got both model ship makers and historical plans to plan my build. In the end, I planned my little Royal Louis to have a 25 cm hull (9.8 inches?) and sit comfortably on a very small shelf when done. Another reason for the small size is that I don't have much time so, a larger model would take too much time preparing the wood, etc etc.
 
I'm no Lloyd Mccafery so my model will be full of flaws and probably horrible in the end, but I guess it's a nice experience and you can only learn stuff by doing it. I really hope I can learn something from it. Lots of stuff will be out of scale or I'll end up using inadequate materials/techniques, but in the end I'll have fun.
 
I used POB as a start as you can see in the next pic...
 

 
The bulkheads are really thin, so wood was not an option (at least for my poor skills). I tried with a couples different types of wood but all of them felt too brittle to my taste, so the internal false keel / bulkheads were all made of styrene. They do have some flexibility but at least I didn't break all of the bulkheads. So far, so good.
 
   

Thank you Mark! Now I'm certain to follow this direction... I'll also look for this book you suggested. By the way what kind of issues should I be prepared for?

Thank you Mark! Now I'm certain to follow this direction... I'll also look for this book you suggested. By the way what kind of issues should I be prepared for?

fmartins,
 
Yes, the second planking would be even with the wales.   reading the recommended books is a good idea but... there are aspects of the French ships that don't apply to the British ships and vice versa.  
 
You might look for a copy of zu Mondfeld's "Historic Ship Models".   While it has it's issues, it does give a good overview of the ships and highlights many of the differences between the various country's ships.  

Thanks Davyboy, I'll take a look and buy a copy if in a good price. Unfortunately brazilian currency has devalued quickly and too much last year so even cheap books are not cheap for us anymore  :( ....
 
EJ_L, thanks again! I'll follow your suggestions!  :D

Ah, this Goodwin fellow you wrote about, are there any books from him you'd suggest?

Allan, thanks a lot! With the French ships it happened the same right? I'm gonna double plank this area glush to the wales. As for the width of the planks I'm quite sure it won't be in scale... I don't think I'de be able to do it, not without some serious proper equipment...

Hey dupress, it's certainly miles away from from being amazing but I'm glad you liked it. it's been a challenge so far, but it will become even more so as I'll have to add details on the deck and the rigging - which by the way I have no idea what to do... 
 
Allanyed,
 
Thanks for the input. From what I can see this extra layer of planking should be flush with the wales right? I'm searching for information in modelibg books but so far nothing...