Captain Al

Theo, you are a god send.  Your pictures should be published in the kit's instructions instead of the vague, almost finished ones they provide.  By seeing your's I am getting a real good idea of how this whole planking job needs to go.  And thanks for clearing up the issue of stairs, 4 or 5.  It was making me crazy trying to find that 5th stairway.  You noted that the stairs are not very authentic in several ways.  I found that true as well and made a couple enhancements to fix the problems.  I am planning to do some computer work today and post pictures, but just for the record, what I did was add a footer to give the staircase some decent gluing surface (I am a firm believer in making things stay in place once they are put down), and I added the missing railings cause I wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.
 
I have two questions....First, it appears that you are holding the model down on the work pad using L brackets and (here's the Q) a bolt through the bottom ends of the keel.  Is that right?    And second question, are those bungey cords you are using to strap in the planking tight, or just cord with small springs on the ends?  Either way does that work pretty well?
 
Here's a couple pics of my stairs.  I guess I shouldn't butt into your log, but I can't help it.

To both Capt. Fisher and Kannon, take my advice and I'm sure it would be seconded by many on here ... inventory all your parts before you do anything. It was also helpful for me to identify all the laser cut parts by number and put those numbers right on the part itself while its still in its template. Its a great time saver when looking for something and the numbering will come right off with an eraser or swipe of sandpaper. Another hint which will make this easier... there should be two versions of printed pages showing these parts in their templates. One is a big one, 1:1 scale and the other is small, on a 8x11 sheet. I didn't find the big one til I had almost given up trying to read the numbers on the small sheet. Look for the big one; its part of the rigging plans I believe. Finally, find a good way to measure your sticks. Most of them are big enough to measure with any metric device, be it a ruler or calipers or ??. But some are very small, like 1.5 x 1.5 mm and its tough to tell that from 2 x 2 or 1.5 x 2 with the naked eye. It may turn out that you do not have what they say you should. In my case I swear there is no 1.5 x 1.5 African Walnut, only 2 x 2 mm AW. Now it could be that I'm just not measuring accurately, but I've used different tools and that was my conclusion. This is no big deal, however, you must make some adjustments to the dimensions given for building some pieces to account for the added .5 mm. I didn't and my log explains the consequences. But hopefully you will find the 1.5s. I sorted all strip wood and labeled them by size and type. Now its very easy to find the right wood for a part. Nothing more to add except have fun.

Same box as mine Theo. Mine was sitting idle in a neighbors garage for 6 years before they gave it to me. I hope your's doesn't have any of the warpage problems mine has had.

Bill you are dating yourself with your terminology. Peace brother and power to the people...right on!

Didn't mean to slight you Dom.     Theodor, if your reading this, Fifthace has one of the best going.  And moreover, Dom is one of the most helpful guys around. 

Dom, thanks for the suggestion re sanding.  I have been undecided as to whether or not to varnish this cabin structure but my wife makes the final call and she said absolutely.  So yeah, I need to sand off the roughness.  I will do the varnishing as well prior to installing.
 
Theodor:  Welcome to MSW and to our Bounty community.  Are you actually building the kit by Artesiana Latina or Bounty by another kit manufacturer?  There are a lot of Bounty posts on MSW, most of them being other manufacturers.  But there are some good ones by AL that have been posted.  You should also look at the others even though they may not be exact.  Bounty by Mike Dowling is in progress and has good photos and explanations of do's and don'ts.  You'll learn a lot by just looking at other builds.  Is this really your first post?  Been a member since last Sept and not had any questions?  That's doing quite well, and independently at that.  I hope you start your own build log and I look forward to seeing your progress.  Have you done other ships in the past or is this your first attempt at ship modeling?

Bill you are dating yourself with your terminology. Peace brother and power to the people...right on!

Those were my thoughts exactly too, Dom.  Pretty nice work for a guy who was so scared to start.

Well here are the long promised pictures and proof that I haven't been shirking my duties. There's not much to add in the way of commentary that I didn't tell you yesterday. I would like your opinion(s) on a couple things. If you look at the pictures of the stern bulkhead (framed in dark walnut) you'll see a strip of 1.5 x 1.5 at its base. I haven't glued any of these parts in yet so I can discard that "footer" if I want. I put it there cause otherwise there isn't much gluing surface to hold this bulkhead in place. Only the narrow upper line at the tip where it meets the ply of the cabin floor above. Do you think this is an intrusion on aesthetics? Its probably unauthentic but that's not my objective. You will also notice in one of the other bulkheads that there is a 4 mm wide strip of mahagony running lengthwise at the top. I was having a hell of a time accurately cutting to 90 degrees the 4 mm spacers that the plans called for -- eight of them to continue the 8 vertical frames. So I finally decided to insert this piece cause it fit so perfectly right out of my scrap heap. Finally, should I sand and varnish the rawmin soffits? The camera sure emphasizes things (like the defect in one of the soffit's lining) that the eye really doesn't pick up.

Well I'm glad I used the carpenters glue even before I posted the question.  I never use the CA over a large area such as all the beams and decking.  Just too afraid of having it run and get on my fingers.  I really like painting on the white glue and I do thin it somewhat with an eye dropper for control.  I was asking what really was a moot point since I'd already done it, but I did not know the answer.  I'm glad everyone including Dan supports using carpenters in such situations.  Its been on there now a full day with clamps, so I think I'll take off the clamps and see how she is.
 
As for the gaps between decking and frames....I didn't think that was inherent to open hull planked models.  I thought it was due to my ineptitude in installing the frames, or because the cutting of the deck ply was just not very good.  I filled most of them on the holding deck and will probably do the same on this lower deck, since I have to fill a very narrow space between the two halves of deck over about 3 inches aft of the main mast.
 
Thanks for your compliments.  Slow and steady can get it done.

Well, it seems like I am getting both thumbnails and large photos into the post, so I am doing something wrong. I am going to resort to the simpler technique and attach the pics at the end of each section.
 
To make a long story short, I am satisfied that I have the masts running well down to the keel and into the mast steps. The moral of the story is still the same: don't do anything further until the frames are perfect and don't try to work with a warped deck. I believe all the of the misalignment of these mast holes (and they really weren't horrendously bad, just not perfect) was due to the adjustments I had to make to the first half of the lower deck to get that deck to lay down onto the beams. Many rebates had to be enlarged (probably to square with misaligned frames) and that in itself would be enough to throw it out of alignment. But I'm happy to say that all the fixes went well and I didn't break anything further and didn't ever lose my patience or temper (as I used to when I modeled at 12 years old).

Thanks all you dope heads for bringing me up to speed.  I just finished gluing in half of my lower deck (pictures will follow soon on my own build log) and if valium qualifies as dope, please send me some.  I knew the warpage of the ply was going to be my Achilles heel.  I had to use like 20 clothes pins, five C clamps and six weights (from my wife's knitting machine) to make the whole thing sit tight on the beams.  I was going to do both halves  at once but found it impossible cause I have clamps on the inside center line.  Probably better anyway to let it all dry and then make a go of the second half (the open side should be easer; more flexible).  I continue to wonder and ask: is there a tried and true method of flattening out a piece of warped ply?  I tried wetting and clamping between two pieces of flat wood.  No success.  Maybe not wet enough?

Please don't.

Dan, thank you for your input.  I was not meaning to stain the top surface of the decks, but the ply underneath (which the real thing didn't have).  I would not have given it a second thought except for the fact that with the open hull design it is easy to see underneath these decks, and I don't like the pinkish color of this ply.  So I went ahead (just two minutes ago) and stained the underside.  A lot subtler or marine like, but still plywood.
 
I am so glad to hear from you and know that you are following this build from time to time.  I've already learned a great deal from you.  More so though, I hope you are feeling well and getting through your medical issues in stride.  You seem like the kind of guy who can face life's obstacles as they present themselves.  I faced a similar problem with a lymphoma node touching my spine.  Talk about pain.  But the docs do wonders now and I'm sure you're in good hands.  Be well my friend.

I answered this on your log but I'll repeat. Decided not to add anything that the kit doesn't call for. Unless of course its for strength or to correct some error (either mine or theirs).

I like your sense of humor. It will serve you well I think in the days and weeks to come. My wife and I were just poring over the pictures and plans that come with the kit and its very weird. The pictures on the huge box that it all comes it has something down there, whether or not its a deck or not is hard to tell. But the instructional photos show nothing more than a fwd/aft running beam that is fixed to the inner side of frames 8 and 9 (just forward of the holding well box. The picture shows a lot of barrels and bales heaped inside, resting only on the hull planking. I suppose this beam is to hold these barrels in (but they'll be glued). And in reality, I don't think these heavy barrels would have been allowed to sit just on the planking. But the plans show nothing; neither a deck or a beam. So just like you said, why make things more complicated than they already are. I'm going to move on with the work that I have in front of me and follow the plans/instructions as they've been written. Maybe someone with more naval history can provide an answer re the ballast cause I am still curious about that. And if they actually used something like stones (which they did), it would be easy enough to throw some pebbles in there.

Well the Holidays are over and I made some modest but significant progress on Bounty.  I finished staining all the ribs and glued them into the false keel.  Despite my diligence in making sure they were perpendicular and spaced according to the plans, when the process was over I was only 90% satisfied with my work.  The first issue I had was the spacing between ribs.  I had to place temporary spacers (made of matchsticks) between a couple of them to achieve the desired space.  When I took the spacers out the flexibility of the ribs went back to being off by a mm or two.  I decided not to sweat this as I figure the notches on each level of decking will be spaced properly and these ribs will flex enough to slide into them.  The more troubling issue (and I still cannot understand what caused it) was that one of the beams, cut to perfect length, would not sit level between its two ribs.  As can be seen in two of the pics, I solved this with a small piece of wood glued to the top of the knee.  I am wondering, and seeking advice, on possible causes.  I know the laser cut notches in the rib and the false keel are pretty well cut and result in a squared up mating; no play side to side which would have thrown the two knees out of level.  I did take a swipe with 320 sandpaper over most surfaces and edges of all these ribs, but nothing close to removing that much material.  So my conclusion (without being arrogant for a newcomer to the hobby) is that sometimes S happens at the factory and this may be one of them.  I fully expect that along the way there will be times when imperfections in the kit and mistakes I make will need to be remedied.  The other question I have re this fault, is did I choose the best way to fix it?  I couldn't think of any other, so I'm interested to hear if others have had to do something similar.
 
So now with the forward 7 ribs, stiffeners and beams in place I am ready to plank the lower deck and put it in place.  I've done a dry run with the unplanked deck halves and the fit is nice.  The deck sits atop all the beams flat and the only gap there is is from the flexibility of the plywood.  This will either come true when the planking is glued to it or I will apply some small weight to it from atop which puts it flat onto the beam.  I'm coming to expect that these thin pieces of ply will always have some flex or warp to them.
 
Questions I have before I dive into the planking and placing of this lower deck:
1.  Is it best to plank from the center line out since this is the straight edge?
2.  The instructions recommend contact glue to affix the planks to the underlying deck pieces.  Is there agreement from all that this is the best?
3.  Should each plank be coated, then placed on the deck separately or can they all be coated then set aside as each is laid in place?  I forget exactly how contact glue works (I'll experiment before doing it) but I think the two contact surfaces are allowed to dry before being placed together.  They are easily handled when dry but once contact is made with the other surface its all she wrote.  They stick fast.  Is that how it basically works?
4.  Last question -- what type of glue should be used to secure the deck to the beams, and if white glue, should the entire beam be coated?
 
Thanks for any advice, answers and critique of what I've done.  This is quite fun.
 
 

Mike, welcome to the forum (I sound like an oldtimer which I am not). Your kit looks similar to my Bounty in that it has mostly open framing. Your's has a few solid bulkheads in the bow and stern which mine does not. So with these (flexible) open frames you will probably encounter similar challenges. However careful I thought I was being, still various alignment problems came up. I was naïve in thinking that if the rebates (notches) connecting the frames to the false keel were tight that the alignment of the frame fore and aft had to be square. Not. I have several that for some reason did not square up, even though at the keel they are perfect. This could be cause of warpage (my kit sat in a garage for 6 years before it was given to me). I've also found that the knees for the decks are not perfectly level (hold platform and lower deck) and I've had to add shims to some. Anyway, my big takeaway from it so far is that you can't trust the kits to be perfect and its a good idea to read the plans as well as the instructions. I look forward to following your progress, and hope you take a look at mine. I've not posted much to my build log lately, but I plan to catch up this weekend.

Dan, I should have replied weeks ago but personal circumstances have prevented me from paying much attention to my hobby. But I did want to thank you for providing insight into the imperfections of some of the pieces provided by Art. Latina's kit. I presume that there are very few kit manufacturers that are absolutely perfect and I've come to learn that finding their imperfections before using any particular part is part of the task of modeling. It is comforting to know though that there are not too difficult ways of remedying situations, and that not all the imperfections in my build are my fault. When I am finished with Bounty (which could be a long while) and looking for another kit, I will raise a topic discussing which manufacturers are better than others and which should be avoided.
 
Capt. AL (I see I need to be careful when abbreviating the name of Artesania Latina lest readers think I am referring to myself).

Dan, I should have replied weeks ago but personal circumstances have prevented me from paying much attention to my hobby. But I did want to thank you for providing insight into the imperfections of some of the pieces provided by Art. Latina's kit. I presume that there are very few kit manufacturers that are absolutely perfect and I've come to learn that finding their imperfections before using any particular part is part of the task of modeling. It is comforting to know though that there are not too difficult ways of remedying situations, and that not all the imperfections in my build are my fault. When I am finished with Bounty (which could be a long while) and looking for another kit, I will raise a topic discussing which manufacturers are better than others and which should be avoided.
 
Capt. AL (I see I need to be careful when abbreviating the name of Artesania Latina lest readers think I am referring to myself).

Thank you all.  You've renewed my faith in carpenters glue.  I am right now waiting to look at the results of a test I did a couple hours ago with the white glue -- actually I also have the yellow stuff by Elmers.  I have a feeling it is going to bond just fine.  Thank you Druxey for the tip re dampening the planks....they are extremely thin.  I would think a good way to do this is to do the planking then swipe the whole thing once or twice with a damp sponge.  Thanks again.

Well the Holidays are over and I made some modest but significant progress on Bounty.  I finished staining all the ribs and glued them into the false keel.  Despite my diligence in making sure they were perpendicular and spaced according to the plans, when the process was over I was only 90% satisfied with my work.  The first issue I had was the spacing between ribs.  I had to place temporary spacers (made of matchsticks) between a couple of them to achieve the desired space.  When I took the spacers out the flexibility of the ribs went back to being off by a mm or two.  I decided not to sweat this as I figure the notches on each level of decking will be spaced properly and these ribs will flex enough to slide into them.  The more troubling issue (and I still cannot understand what caused it) was that one of the beams, cut to perfect length, would not sit level between its two ribs.  As can be seen in two of the pics, I solved this with a small piece of wood glued to the top of the knee.  I am wondering, and seeking advice, on possible causes.  I know the laser cut notches in the rib and the false keel are pretty well cut and result in a squared up mating; no play side to side which would have thrown the two knees out of level.  I did take a swipe with 320 sandpaper over most surfaces and edges of all these ribs, but nothing close to removing that much material.  So my conclusion (without being arrogant for a newcomer to the hobby) is that sometimes S happens at the factory and this may be one of them.  I fully expect that along the way there will be times when imperfections in the kit and mistakes I make will need to be remedied.  The other question I have re this fault, is did I choose the best way to fix it?  I couldn't think of any other, so I'm interested to hear if others have had to do something similar.
 
So now with the forward 7 ribs, stiffeners and beams in place I am ready to plank the lower deck and put it in place.  I've done a dry run with the unplanked deck halves and the fit is nice.  The deck sits atop all the beams flat and the only gap there is is from the flexibility of the plywood.  This will either come true when the planking is glued to it or I will apply some small weight to it from atop which puts it flat onto the beam.  I'm coming to expect that these thin pieces of ply will always have some flex or warp to them.
 
Questions I have before I dive into the planking and placing of this lower deck:
1.  Is it best to plank from the center line out since this is the straight edge?
2.  The instructions recommend contact glue to affix the planks to the underlying deck pieces.  Is there agreement from all that this is the best?
3.  Should each plank be coated, then placed on the deck separately or can they all be coated then set aside as each is laid in place?  I forget exactly how contact glue works (I'll experiment before doing it) but I think the two contact surfaces are allowed to dry before being placed together.  They are easily handled when dry but once contact is made with the other surface its all she wrote.  They stick fast.  Is that how it basically works?
4.  Last question -- what type of glue should be used to secure the deck to the beams, and if white glue, should the entire beam be coated?
 
Thanks for any advice, answers and critique of what I've done.  This is quite fun.
 
 

Thank you all for further explaining and showing the use of the pins to hold down the planks. I also think its a good idea to shorten the planks. Since my build has open ribs I am thinking of a way to buttress them from inside temporarily during planking. I thought this will give them support as I push pins into them. With predrilled holes that might not be necessary. It's hard for me to imagine a drill bit that small, but I assume they are readily available. Probably use my Dremel tool. Thanks again all. This morning I begin setting in the frames.

For those who did not see my introductory post when I first joined about a week ago, I will summarize:
 
I am 68 years young and have been retired a few years.  My wife and I have been sailors on SF Bay and coastwise for 25 years but sold our last boat (a Baba 30 by Perry) a few years back.  Over the years I have accumulated lots of woodworking tools both hand and power and have a modicum of skill with them.  I've wanted to start ship modeling for a long time in order to satisfy my love of woodworking, sailing and everything nautical.  A week ago, while discussing woodworking and shop talk in general with a neighbor (91 years of age -- don't know why that is relevant) he offered me a gift of a model ship kit.  When I went to the garage to get it I was overwhelmed.  This was a model that is for advanced modelers (so all the brochures say) and cost $400 or so.  I am neither advanced, nor would I have spent that kind of money on my first build.  I had been looking for something in the beginners class and for maybe $100.  To make a long story short, my neighbor friend insisted I take it and give it a try; nothing ventured nothing gained he said, and "what's the worst that can happen? "  Having no answer to that question, and with encouragement from various members herein, I have commenced my build.
 
I first decided I would jury rig a vise from one I had for my 15" drill press.  I replaced the jaws with some soft wood I took from a wooden yardstick.  Works pretty well but I think it'll eventually be replaced by something more versatile.
 
My wife (who is a pattern maker and has worked in electronics assembly) and I spent a few days just reading the instructions, looking at the step by step pictures and then identifying and labeling each and every precut part.  Next step was popping out these parts from their sheets.  I found they didn't pop very easily, and not wanting to bust any, I took the precaution of sort of cutting them fully through the sheets using a very small artist's palate knife (super thin blade and dull edge).  Once I'd scored through the cuts, the parts popped out easily.  Time consuming but effective.
 
I've popped out only enough parts to lay the false keel, attach the ribs (frames), stiffeners and lower deck beams, and sanded them pretty well.  I want to finish sanding with 320 grit, but I wonder if, for these parts, most of which won't be visible, if this is overkill.  I have dry assembled the parts just so I will be fully aware of where things go before I do anything drastic with glue.  I plan to use carpenters glue on these parts.  I've also put in a supply of CA glue for future use.
 
The instructions suggest that since half the hull will remain open, a more finished look will be had by staining and varnishing these parts before gluing.  I am going to use Minwax's pretinted walnut/urethane for this.  I'll test it out first on scrap.  Any better suggestions?  I wanted varnish but did not want to try tinting varnish myself (read here that it can be tricky), so for these I think urethane will be OK.
 
Varnishing parts prior to assembly gives rise to how to do it efficiently and as quickly as practical.  My plan is to build a little painting enclosure out of a cardboard box with a dowel run through it.  I will stick a sewing pin into each part's edge and use that to hold the part while I paint it.  Then I'll hang it from the dowel with something like dental floss or thread.
 
So that's where I'm at now.  I know I'll have lots of questions in the coming days, weeks, and months.  I am hoping to finish this build before my friend who gave it to me passes away.  He is 91 as I said, and his doctor gave him just a few months to live almost a year ago.  I'm sure he would be saying, "don't worry about me; take your time and do the best you can.  Everything you do will give you experience."  So I will take that unspoken advice.
 
Attached are photos I have taken and I will continue to document the build with photos.  I am using a Nikon P80. 

Vivian, thanks for posting these pics.  I am learning a lot just from looking at photos.  I need to visualize things before I really get a grasp of what the H someone is talking about.  I wanted to say thanks as well for your recent encouraging reply to my Bounty build.  And also to mention (off the wall) that the gentleman who gifted me this kit lived in Sao Paulo for many years.  In fact his wife was born there.  The world grows smaller every day; despite Mauna Kea's efforts to enlarge it.