Senior ole salt

Thanks for all the reply's and suggestions.
 
I'm beginning to think the best solution is to try to suggest a story to the model beholder. 
 
The guns are run out. The topsail has been lowered and furled, hands are at the head sail halyards and down hauls. They look to be preparing  to lower sails. A sailor in the chains swings the lead.  One anchor is  "catted", Is it ready to drop? A sailor on a fwd bulwark points at something ahead. Another sailor aft is about to raise a flag but its design is concealed An officer directs the helmsman.
Something is about to happen.
 
 Each observer of the model could have a different opinion as to what is happening or about to happen. All of the above could make for a more interesting model display.
 
SOS
 

Thanks for all the reply's and suggestions.
 
I'm beginning to think the best solution is to try to suggest a story to the model beholder. 
 
The guns are run out. The topsail has been lowered and furled, hands are at the head sail halyards and down hauls. They look to be preparing  to lower sails. A sailor in the chains swings the lead.  One anchor is  "catted", Is it ready to drop? A sailor on a fwd bulwark points at something ahead. Another sailor aft is about to raise a flag but its design is concealed An officer directs the helmsman.
Something is about to happen.
 
 Each observer of the model could have a different opinion as to what is happening or about to happen. All of the above could make for a more interesting model display.
 
SOS
 

Roger, not all situations mean speed,  capturing a prize or just  evading an enemy means cracking on more sail . Just getting some "movement"  can make a big difference.
 
SOS
 
 

Roger, not all situations mean speed,  capturing a prize or just  evading an enemy means cracking on more sail . Just getting some "movement"  can make a big difference.
 
SOS
 
 

Roger, I know what you are saying about windward work for normal circumstances but picture the scenario as outlined above.
A captain hot on the stern of a prize or sailing to escape capture or a battle with a superior enemy and the only course open is to windward. Setting a top sail just might just give the edge. especially if bowlines are rigged.
 
 
Gregory, This model is for a former skipper (step son) of the replica Sloop Providence He furnished hull plans of poor quality and no rigging plans, just a basic sail plan.( see this build log) A fellow MSW member loaned me the plans for the Armed Virginia sloop , a rig very similar to the Sloop Providence and about the same period. This I used as a general guide to just where things went. I also referred to images of the sloop under full sail in a light wind All of the above had to be tempered with the fact the ex skipper wanted it to look more like a 1776 vessel as apposed to a replica  built in the 1970's.  I told the ex skipper about my model problem concerning the lift hitting the topmast shrouds when braced for windward work and he said it was never a problem.
I think his answer leads me to believe that the replica had  schedules and be in a particular place at a certain time and windward work in any air was a problem solved by starting up the auxiliary engine.
 
This still gives me the dilemma as to how to rig the vessel as I envisioned above.
In one image(aloft view ) shown here the topsail is lowered. 
 
I'm beginning to think as Roger hinted Just square the yards, lower and furl the topsail and just show the fore n aft sails on the model. Unless someone can come up with a full sail on the wind solution.
Chuck Beautiful workmanship on your model. 
Jersey City Frankie Thanks for chiming in on this. Your posted images indicate there are other similar rigged vessels out there but are unclear about the relationship of the lift and topmast shrouds when braced for windward sailing with all sails set.
 
 
BTW my model will have a few crew aboard. One will be a sailor in the "chains" casting the lead line. Since the model will be healed some, ( wind in those sails ) just where would the leads man be on the windward side or the leeward side ?
Thanks all
SOS

Roger, I know what you are saying about windward work for normal circumstances but picture the scenario as outlined above.
A captain hot on the stern of a prize or sailing to escape capture or a battle with a superior enemy and the only course open is to windward. Setting a top sail just might just give the edge. especially if bowlines are rigged.
 
 
Gregory, This model is for a former skipper (step son) of the replica Sloop Providence He furnished hull plans of poor quality and no rigging plans, just a basic sail plan.( see this build log) A fellow MSW member loaned me the plans for the Armed Virginia sloop , a rig very similar to the Sloop Providence and about the same period. This I used as a general guide to just where things went. I also referred to images of the sloop under full sail in a light wind All of the above had to be tempered with the fact the ex skipper wanted it to look more like a 1776 vessel as apposed to a replica  built in the 1970's.  I told the ex skipper about my model problem concerning the lift hitting the topmast shrouds when braced for windward work and he said it was never a problem.
I think his answer leads me to believe that the replica had  schedules and be in a particular place at a certain time and windward work in any air was a problem solved by starting up the auxiliary engine.
 
This still gives me the dilemma as to how to rig the vessel as I envisioned above.
In one image(aloft view ) shown here the topsail is lowered. 
 
I'm beginning to think as Roger hinted Just square the yards, lower and furl the topsail and just show the fore n aft sails on the model. Unless someone can come up with a full sail on the wind solution.
Chuck Beautiful workmanship on your model. 
Jersey City Frankie Thanks for chiming in on this. Your posted images indicate there are other similar rigged vessels out there but are unclear about the relationship of the lift and topmast shrouds when braced for windward sailing with all sails set.
 
 
BTW my model will have a few crew aboard. One will be a sailor in the "chains" casting the lead line. Since the model will be healed some, ( wind in those sails ) just where would the leads man be on the windward side or the leeward side ?
Thanks all
SOS

Mark, thanks for your suggestion but I think loosening the topmast  shrouds would mean undoing the dead eye lanyards. This would endanger the support bracing of the topmast. I have never seen baggy wrinkle on any shrouds, but I guess there is a first time.
 
SOS

Thanks Mr. Frankie.
  I think I'm going to try and think like a skipper at that time (during the American revolution.)   My vessel ( single masted sloop of war ) is being pursed by a superior enemy or giving chase to a worthy prize My ample crew are seasoned mariners and know their job and risks. The spreader  lift chafing on the topmast shroud is dis concerning which will part first ( probably the lift) especially as there is a sea running, the ship is rolling and pitching causing the two to grind against each other in an alarming manner. The ship expects to be on this tack for some time. The skipper thinks :    Should I send men aloft out on the spreader yard and cut the splice that fastened the lift to the yard and simply pass it around the topmast stay lead it clear back to the yard and fasten it with a sized bowline Or rig a temporary lift to support the spreader yard and ease off completely on the regular lift give it plenty of slack and let the jury rig lift support the spreader yard?   Which or what  would you do ?     Thanks   SOS

I will be doing a demo at my local club as a follow up to the carving exercise we had.  I will also create a photo essay of sorts here on MSW.
 
I have already created the test mold for the live demo and made a few test copies....but will be making more molds of other elements.   I will demonstrate one method for making simple one part molds for these flat carvings as it is something that comes in handy for ship modeling.  Especially for things like gunport wreaths etc.
 
So look for the demo to commence in about a week.  I am just waiting on newer resin and rubber mold material to arrive in the mail.  It has a short shelf life. Using old rubber mold materials is also not good because it could ruin your master.  
 
I will be trying a few brands so I can talk about and review each of them.  I hope you will find this a useful addendum to the carving section as it is somewhat related.  I hope its OK with you folks that I post here in this area.
 
Below is the first mold....a master carving....and two cast copies.   Casting thin parts is problematic but its what we do as ship modelers so lets give it a go.
 

 
 
Chuck

Scratch model of the sloop Providence  is coming along. Thanks to a member here that loaned me with the plans of the Virginia Armed sloop, . I'm using it as a rigging guide.
 
Add to Post
 
In the image is a jig I made to rig up the top mast shrouds. A similar one was made for the main mast( see above post ). I found it easier to tie in the rat lines off the actual model.(fat thumbs get in the way )
 
Add to Post
 
Add to Post
 
In the other images( with sails showing) the  main shrouds are in place on the mast. but the dead eyes lanyards not reeved. This allows me to place the entire shrouds P&S out of the way to access the various lines of the running rigging to be belayed to their pins near the mast and the bulwarks etc. Near the finish of the running rigging the deadeyes will be rigged. Having the sails hoisted up for me needed a different approach to rig the model as they get in the way otherwise.
 
Notice in the images the yards are not braced. When finished they will braced like the sloop is on a close reach and the display will have the vessel healed on the port tack.
 
The top sail is just in place. It will be lifted off to enable me to place the topmast shrouds on the top mast as well as the jib stay. 
 
BTW I did find some (to me) errors in the V.A. Sloop plans.Like the orientation of the dead eyes ( sheet 5 middle deadeye holes reversed) and on sheet 4 showing possible rig with sail. plan shows the bunt line on the back of the sail and the clew line in the front. To me it should be the other way around.
 
SOS

After a summer of sailing Carrianne,  
  
I figure it's time to continue work on the Sloop  Providence.
So I pinned on the sails to see how they might look. OK but not full of wind.
So I made forms to kind of mold the wind in. This worked pretty good. But attaching the sails to the model and coping with the rigging might prove a problem for me, i decided to do some of the standing rigging off the model like the P&S shrouds etc.then attach the main sail and top sail, deal with their running rigging and then do the head  sails Time will tell if this works.
I'll post pix as I go.
 
S.O.S

Scratch model of the sloop Providence  is coming along. Thanks to a member here that loaned me with the plans of the Virginia Armed sloop, . I'm using it as a rigging guide.
 
Add to Post
 
In the image is a jig I made to rig up the top mast shrouds. A similar one was made for the main mast( see above post ). I found it easier to tie in the rat lines off the actual model.(fat thumbs get in the way )
 
Add to Post
 
Add to Post
 
In the other images( with sails showing) the  main shrouds are in place on the mast. but the dead eyes lanyards not reeved. This allows me to place the entire shrouds P&S out of the way to access the various lines of the running rigging to be belayed to their pins near the mast and the bulwarks etc. Near the finish of the running rigging the deadeyes will be rigged. Having the sails hoisted up for me needed a different approach to rig the model as they get in the way otherwise.
 
Notice in the images the yards are not braced. When finished they will braced like the sloop is on a close reach and the display will have the vessel healed on the port tack.
 
The top sail is just in place. It will be lifted off to enable me to place the topmast shrouds on the top mast as well as the jib stay. 
 
BTW I did find some (to me) errors in the V.A. Sloop plans.Like the orientation of the dead eyes ( sheet 5 middle deadeye holes reversed) and on sheet 4 showing possible rig with sail. plan shows the bunt line on the back of the sail and the clew line in the front. To me it should be the other way around.
 
SOS

Scratch model of the sloop Providence  is coming along. Thanks to a member here that loaned me with the plans of the Virginia Armed sloop, . I'm using it as a rigging guide.
 
Add to Post
 
In the image is a jig I made to rig up the top mast shrouds. A similar one was made for the main mast( see above post ). I found it easier to tie in the rat lines off the actual model.(fat thumbs get in the way )
 
Add to Post
 
Add to Post
 
In the other images( with sails showing) the  main shrouds are in place on the mast. but the dead eyes lanyards not reeved. This allows me to place the entire shrouds P&S out of the way to access the various lines of the running rigging to be belayed to their pins near the mast and the bulwarks etc. Near the finish of the running rigging the deadeyes will be rigged. Having the sails hoisted up for me needed a different approach to rig the model as they get in the way otherwise.
 
Notice in the images the yards are not braced. When finished they will braced like the sloop is on a close reach and the display will have the vessel healed on the port tack.
 
The top sail is just in place. It will be lifted off to enable me to place the topmast shrouds on the top mast as well as the jib stay. 
 
BTW I did find some (to me) errors in the V.A. Sloop plans.Like the orientation of the dead eyes ( sheet 5 middle deadeye holes reversed) and on sheet 4 showing possible rig with sail. plan shows the bunt line on the back of the sail and the clew line in the front. To me it should be the other way around.
 
SOS

Ahoy all Modelers,
 

 
Coming along on the model. and got the swivel guns mounted on the poop deck. Also an officer was piped aboard this week to help supervise the further construction. I got a different scheme for mounting the gun port lids that might be unorthodox. If it works Ill post it here. Still to go some kind of binnacle , channels and deadeyes ( awaiting the blackening agent).
Notice the cable going to a holes in the fwd. grating and below to the cable locker.
 
Thanks for the help in various questions I posted in other threads.
 
S.O.S.
 
 

]Lower deck guns rigged and run out .. ready for the first broad side... well ...almost. Got all of the poop deck to do as well as its fittings  rails and swivel guns. etc. (  deck not glued down in the image") For now I'd like to know just what sort of binnacle was typical for a 18th century ship during the American revolution. The plans I have show a deck box and I assume engine controls probably a compass etc . Also where the ships bell might be.
 
My big question is a rigging plan. My plans show only standing rigging and main peak & throat  blocks  halyards etc.with no clue as to just where they might go. So my question is any one here knowledgeable where all the running rigging should go and belay to?  
 
 
 
Thanks
 
S.O..S

Well the Providence is moving along. For me the rigging of the cannons was challenging but  I had to install at least 4 of them before the poop deck work was to proceed as the beams and deck would make access to those 4 cannons difficult. ( for me at least) I first tried to rig up the tackles separately, attach them to the cannon and then move the cannon into place tackle and all. That didn't work.as there was a lot to manage all at the same time So I next  stropped the block with becket & line to the bulkhead  by drilling a small hole that matched the stropped block in the bulkhead and just glue in the block, strop and line. Same goes for the  single block on the gun carriage Then I glued the gun carriage in place, let the glue dry. With tweezers, two needle threaders I rigged up the tackles as depicted in the photo. The coils are separate and all glued down. I still have to install the  gun barrels and iron work to hold down the trunnions.
 
The in place deck beams are not complete as there are two extensions P&S from the existing beams. All other deck work shown are removable for now to give more space for installing the other 6 cannons and tackles..
 
I gave up the idea of furnishing the main cabin as peering into it would be hopeless  with the eventual  poop deck, case would permit. I'll let the imagination of the viewer supply what John.Paul Jones and officers had for comfort. maybe even a wench or two. After all guys are guys.  Thanks for viewing.
 
S.O.S

Ahoy all Modelers,
 

 
Coming along on the model. and got the swivel guns mounted on the poop deck. Also an officer was piped aboard this week to help supervise the further construction. I got a different scheme for mounting the gun port lids that might be unorthodox. If it works Ill post it here. Still to go some kind of binnacle , channels and deadeyes ( awaiting the blackening agent).
Notice the cable going to a holes in the fwd. grating and below to the cable locker.
 
Thanks for the help in various questions I posted in other threads.
 
S.O.S.
 
 

I thought it would be informative to post a little about the ship.
 
BTW the attached image is of the vessel ( unfinished of course ) with the captured shallop she captured stowed on deck.

Stowed below are 8 swivel guns shipped by Chuck waiting for their mount and installation on the poop deck( not a refuge for gulls with digestive problems)
 
S.O.S.
 
A little about the sloop Providence"
On 10 May, John Paul Jones assumed command of Providence with temporary rank of Captain. After a voyage to New York returning to the Continental Army about 100 soldiers whom Washington had lent to Hopkins to help man the American fleet, and after returning to Providence, Jones hove down the ship to clean her bottom and sailed 13 June escorting Fly to Fishers Island at the entrance to Long Island Sound. En route he saved a brigantine bringing munitions from Hispanola from the British frigate Cerberus.
Providence next escorted a convoy of colliers to Philadelphia arriving 1 August. There, a week later, Jones received his permanent commission as Captain. On the 21st, Providence departed the Delaware Capes to begin an independent cruise, and in a few days took the brigantine Britannia and sent the whaler into Philadelphia under a prize crew. On 1 September, daring seamanship enabled Jones to escape from the British frigate Solebay. Two days later Providence captured Sea Nymph, carrying sugar, rum, ginger, and oil, and sent the Bermudan brigantine to Philadelphia. On the 6th Providence caught the brigantine Favourite carrying sugar from Antigua to Liverpool, but HMS Galatea recaptured the prize before she could reach an American port.
Turning north, Jones headed for Nova Scotia, and on 20 September escaped another frigate before reaching Canso two days later. There he recruited men to fill the vacancies created by manning his prizes, burned a British fishing schooner, sank a second, and captured a third besides a shallop which he used as a tender. Moving to Ile Madame, Providence took several more prizes fishing there before riding out a severe storm. One more prize, the whaler Portland surrendered to Providence before she returned to Narragansett Bay 8 October.
While Providence was at home, Hopkins appointed Jones the Commander of Alfred, a larger ship and the Commander in Chief’s flagship on the expedition to the Bahamas. Shortly thereafter, Capt. Hoysted Hacker took command of Providence. The two ships got under way 11 November. After ten days they took the brigantine Active and the next day took the armed transport Mellish carrying winter uniforms and military supplies for the British Army. On the 16th they captured the snow Kitty. The next night, Providence, troubled by leaks which had developed during bad weather on the cruise, headed back for Rhode Island and arrived at Newport two days later.
The British seized Narragansett Bay in December 1776 and Providence, with other American vessels there, retired up the Providence River. In February 1777, under Lt. Jonathan Pitcher, Providence ran the British blockade; after putting into New Bedford, she cruised to Cape Breton where she captured a transport brig loaded with stores and carrying two officers and 25 men of the British Army besides her crew. Under command of Capt. J.P. Rathbun, Providence made two cruises on the coast and about mid-January 1778, sailed from Georgetown, N.C., again bound for New Providence in the Bahamas, this time alone. On 27 January she spiked the guns of the fort at Nassau, taking military stores including 1,600 pounds of powder, and released 30 American prisoners. She also made prize of a 16-gun British ship and recaptured five other vessels which had been brought in by the British. On 30 January the prizes were manned and sailed away. Providence, with her armed prize, put into New Bedford.
 On the left the replica Providence(Boston, 1980) During the early part of April 1779 Providence was ordered to make a short cruise in Massachusetts Bay and along the coast of Maine. She later sailed south of Cape Cod and on 7 May, captured the brig HMS Diligent, 12 guns, off Sandy Hook. She fired two broadsides and a volley of muskets during the engagement and Diligent, with mast rigging and hull cut to pieces, was forced to surrender. Providence then was assigned to Commodore Saltonstall’s squadron which departed Boston 19 July 1779 and entered Penobscot Bay 25 July. Providence was destroyed by her crew, along with other American vessels in the Penobscot River, 14 August 1779, to prevent her falling into the hands of the British towards the end of the failed Penobscot Expedition.

In conferring with an ex skipper( who commissioned the model build) of the Sloop Providence  (Same rig as the Armed  Virginia Sloop ) The " brace" pair intended for the spreader yard leading aft were not used to brace the yard. They were used as a "utility" line, like to board cargo or cat the anchor etc.
 

 
In the image one can see the utility in a stowed position not bracing the yard.
 
To brace the spreader yard, the pair leading to the bowsprit was used.  
 
I wonder if the Armed Virginia sloop skippers did the same ??
 
SOS

Virginia Armed sloop ?
 
I'm using these plans to rig my model of the Colonial Sloop Providence as no plans of this vessel exist, presently, only a wrecked replica.
 
The Virginia Armed Sloop  plans make me ponder a bit.
 
 On sheet 7 detail 7A shows the view of the jeers. The parrel goes around the "horse" securing the spreader yard to the horse.
 

 
My concerns are :
 
When sailing off the wind, Is this sufficient to hold the wind filled topsail sheets, and spreader yard strongly to the mast.
considering there is a pair of braces from the spreader yard to the bowsprit, further pulling the spreader yard forward.  Another pair of braces are shown aft to each quarter of the vessel.
 
It seems to me that only one brace aft would be effective, on the windward side. The leeward brace would have to be un shipped or else  it would cut into the main sail.
 
So what was the practice in the days of Colonial sailing vessel ?
 
I would rig up another parrel around the yard and the mast , especially if it came on to blow, and strike the spreader leeward brace. ( I might be sailing for a prize   or escaping a superior enemy Man o war)   
 
BTW I wonder how often the spreader yard would actually be lowered back in those days. The Providence replica for all practical purposes had it's spreader yard fixed. in position.  But unfortunately failure to strike it when on the hard and lower the top mast probably contributed to the Providence  replica to be blown over during a winter storm. 
 
Thanks for any imformed response.
 
SOS

In conferring with an ex skipper( who commissioned the model build) of the Sloop Providence  (Same rig as the Armed  Virginia Sloop ) The " brace" pair intended for the spreader yard leading aft were not used to brace the yard. They were used as a "utility" line, like to board cargo or cat the anchor etc.
 

 
In the image one can see the utility in a stowed position not bracing the yard.
 
To brace the spreader yard, the pair leading to the bowsprit was used.  
 
I wonder if the Armed Virginia sloop skippers did the same ??
 
SOS

In conferring with an ex skipper( who commissioned the model build) of the Sloop Providence  (Same rig as the Armed  Virginia Sloop ) The " brace" pair intended for the spreader yard leading aft were not used to brace the yard. They were used as a "utility" line, like to board cargo or cat the anchor etc.
 

 
In the image one can see the utility in a stowed position not bracing the yard.
 
To brace the spreader yard, the pair leading to the bowsprit was used.  
 
I wonder if the Armed Virginia sloop skippers did the same ??
 
SOS

Virginia Armed sloop ?
 
I'm using these plans to rig my model of the Colonial Sloop Providence as no plans of this vessel exist, presently, only a wrecked replica.
 
The Virginia Armed Sloop  plans make me ponder a bit.
 
 On sheet 7 detail 7A shows the view of the jeers. The parrel goes around the "horse" securing the spreader yard to the horse.
 

 
My concerns are :
 
When sailing off the wind, Is this sufficient to hold the wind filled topsail sheets, and spreader yard strongly to the mast.
considering there is a pair of braces from the spreader yard to the bowsprit, further pulling the spreader yard forward.  Another pair of braces are shown aft to each quarter of the vessel.
 
It seems to me that only one brace aft would be effective, on the windward side. The leeward brace would have to be un shipped or else  it would cut into the main sail.
 
So what was the practice in the days of Colonial sailing vessel ?
 
I would rig up another parrel around the yard and the mast , especially if it came on to blow, and strike the spreader leeward brace. ( I might be sailing for a prize   or escaping a superior enemy Man o war)   
 
BTW I wonder how often the spreader yard would actually be lowered back in those days. The Providence replica for all practical purposes had it's spreader yard fixed. in position.  But unfortunately failure to strike it when on the hard and lower the top mast probably contributed to the Providence  replica to be blown over during a winter storm. 
 
Thanks for any imformed response.
 
SOS

Virginia Armed sloop ?
 
I'm using these plans to rig my model of the Colonial Sloop Providence as no plans of this vessel exist, presently, only a wrecked replica.
 
The Virginia Armed Sloop  plans make me ponder a bit.
 
 On sheet 7 detail 7A shows the view of the jeers. The parrel goes around the "horse" securing the spreader yard to the horse.
 

 
My concerns are :
 
When sailing off the wind, Is this sufficient to hold the wind filled topsail sheets, and spreader yard strongly to the mast.
considering there is a pair of braces from the spreader yard to the bowsprit, further pulling the spreader yard forward.  Another pair of braces are shown aft to each quarter of the vessel.
 
It seems to me that only one brace aft would be effective, on the windward side. The leeward brace would have to be un shipped or else  it would cut into the main sail.
 
So what was the practice in the days of Colonial sailing vessel ?
 
I would rig up another parrel around the yard and the mast , especially if it came on to blow, and strike the spreader leeward brace. ( I might be sailing for a prize   or escaping a superior enemy Man o war)   
 
BTW I wonder how often the spreader yard would actually be lowered back in those days. The Providence replica for all practical purposes had it's spreader yard fixed. in position.  But unfortunately failure to strike it when on the hard and lower the top mast probably contributed to the Providence  replica to be blown over during a winter storm. 
 
Thanks for any imformed response.
 
SOS

I'm working on my Providence model and would like to know.
 
Thanks 
 
S.O.S