US Brig Niagara by mikiek - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[mikiek]

singidunam - I went back and looked at their site - this is what I have.  288 LEDs. The rheostat is a good feature. The head has good reach and swivels around to almost any position. And it doens't get hot.

 

When you think about it, your eyes are your most used tool.   Protect them and do what's good for them. Having the 2 light setup has virtually eliminated eye strain for me. At the time I was fortunate to have some cash to throw at it. It was worth it.

 

Good luck....

Edited December 24, 2016 by mikiek

[donrobinson]

Sweet looking light Mike

[mikiek]

Thanks Don and happy holidays to you. It has been a good addition to the work bench. BAck when I was doing the all the gun rigging, the shadows were wreaking havoc on my eyes and my temper. Seeing things that weren't there and not seeing things that were there. Adding the second light was a great move. No place for shadows any more.

Edited December 24, 2016 by mikiek

[moreplovac]

Thanks Mike. Appreciate your feedback..

[mikiek]

Man I feel bad, I had to brush all the dust and bugs off this gal. She's been sitting in the "storage yard" for quite a few weeks. I just finished the hammock rail for my gun deck section build and decided I should see how to implement something similar for Niagara. The section build used a kind of netting or webbing - the stuff used for wedding veils. I found some at a fabric store today - black and it's a tighter webbing than the gun section. Better for the smaller scale. I've started working on a prototype and will post as soon as I have something.

 

The switch back from 1:23 to 1:64 was kind of a shock 

[6ohiocav]

Mike

 

I will pull up a chair and take some serious notes on how you accomplish the hammocks. I am still up to my neck in ropes, blocks and ratlines.

[mikiek]

Welcome - it's good to see the gal again.

[mikiek]

Nice job.

 

BTW there is a build of the panart san felipe ( not relevant but read on) ON SOS forumsby  a user called arizonasum. Check our page 5 of the log for some awsome rigging methods....

 

Paul - what site are you referring to?

[jbshan]

Mike, here's a pic of my hammock rail on a guns display.  The hammocks are 4 ft. X 6 ft., rolled up with blankets inside, doubled over so about 3 ft. long, and the resulting 'sausage' lashed into a bundle that is (in this instance) stood upright inside the netting.

I learned that it was called netting whatever the material, net or canvas.

This material much expanded was on my club's wiki page, but I had to remove the page as the price was getting exorbitant. 

[mikiek]

It's funny Joel - I was just reading several threads regarding hammock paraphernalia (you had several replies) and saw this pic along with some others. I am going to have to go back to my gun station build and redo the hammocks there. They were just thrown in between the stanchions haphazardly (per the instructions) - someone would have received 20 lashes for that.

 

For Niagara, I'm torn between trying to stuff itty-bitty hammocks in the rails or go by the instructions that show a canvas apparently wrapped around them. I am trying a trick I saw somewhere for the canvas. I'm not crazy about the canvas idea but I'm also not crazy about making 150+ mini hammocks. At 1:64 there are not many options.

 

Some quick prototypes just to see what might work

 

 

 

 

I get the feeling the plans showing the stanchions may be wrong. The hammocks in the pix should be 6' and doubled over so 3' and they tower over the stanchions. And a made my stanchions a little larger than the plans. I'm leaning towards doing the hammocks rather than the canvas wrapper. And I thought making 120 gun tackles was bad

Edited January 21, 2017 by mikiek

[jbshan]

Mike, if the hammocks were longer than the stanchions, they could be laid on a slant or even stacked flat.  Since the purpose was to protect the hammocks from the weather (except when used as a barrier against musket shot) you certainly could use a covered hammock rail.  Your second pic actually doesn't look too bad.  You could also have one corner or end opened up to show the hammocks inside and only have to make a few, the rest merely 'stuffing' under the cover.

[mikiek]

You're reading my mind Joel. I believe in one of those hammock threads it was mentioned to do one section uncovered and the others wrapped in canvas with faux hammocks.

 

I do think it would look very cool to have the whole thing done similar to the pic you posted. I just redid my gun section build with full size hammocks rolled, folded and placed soldier course and it looks good. Will post pics of that in a bit.

 

As a general rule of thumb - can we assume that the hammocks would be at least partially covered by canvas? The exterior side at least, to shed the water?

[jbshan]

Mike I just posted more on your section gunbay thread.

[mikiek]

Looks like the first weekend in some time that I will have to "play". Ahhhhh.

 

Hammocks have been the order of the day - working on a prototype of what might work on the build. The general idea came from my gun station build mixed with the plans from this build. As I've said previously, I like the look of the hammocks in the gun station - all lined up, lashed, held in by some netting. However to do that on an entire boat - ehh. I figure 150-175 hammocks and they are not easy to roll or lash at 1:64.

 

So we came up with the idea of a canvas wrapper that runs inside the stanchions - stuffing something inside the canvas to give it some volume and shape. This is what Niagara plans call for. That's always looked a little funny to me - one reason I had considered not doing hammocks at all.

 

The idea here is to start with the wrapper, but fold back a corner and show a few hammocks so you get the idea what's inside. Your comments are welcome here. What looks right and what doesn't? When we get the look just right I'll post a how-to. Keep in mind this is just proof-of-concept. I already know the rope used for the rail is too big (just some scrap) and I will have to find a better way to cut the fabric so it doesn't fray.

 

 

 

My first try at this was to wrap the canvas around the square stick and a dowel. And that's pretty much what it looked like. This time I loosely glued a piece of material over the dowel so there was a little fluff when I wrapped the canvas over it. It is an improvement.

 

 

A couple of lashings around the hammock for a bit of detail

 

 

Backside. I presume this would be the side facing outwards.

 

 

 

 

The stanchions were epoxied to a piece of scrap. For the real thing they would be fastened to the handrail. The plans call for a small post fixed to the underside of the stanchions and then stuck into the rail. I don't see a lot of point in that.

 

So there it is. Whadya think?

Edited January 28, 2017 by mikiek

[jbshan]

Umm... My stanchions are U-shaped with two prongs soldered to the bottom and stuck into holes in the rail and the rings soldered to the tops.  This is one option I got from the literature.

You can see on the HMS Warrior and Jylland pics somebody posted    http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14557-typical-stowage-hammock-stowagehow-was-it-done-edited-by-admin that the finished product is pretty much a big rounded snake-like shape.  If the canvas is not to gather water, it has to be pretty smooth.

 

Just fixed link.

Edited January 29, 2017 by jbshan

[mikiek]

Joel - I based the stanchions off the ones from the gun section build. Didn't even check the Niagara plans - foolish move on my part. However the plans show squared corners at the bottom sitting flat on the handrail. I got lucky I guess.

 

The link you posted didn't work for me

[donrobinson]

Hey Mike, just a couple of thoughts on the hammocks and cranes:

1) the hammocks would have had ropes sewn on each side with tails on each end to secure or a post or hook. Do think they may have used these to tie up the rolled hammock or used a separate piece of rope to get the nice bundle as Joel showed(I like the looks of these)

2) canvas vs netting, which would have been cheaper as that is probably what they used then.

3) I like the looks of the canvas sides, but don't think the hammocks would have been wrapped up in a "tube" like that. It would be just another place for water to collect and rott the canvas

4)I'm thinking if canvas was used and they were to cover the hammocks it would be the outside piece being longer in order to fold over the top or a separate piece that was lashed to the top

5) Do you would think that there would be some sort of grating or rails to hold the hammocks off of the surface of the main rail in order to allow air flow and to prevent water from wick-king into the hammocks?

 

 Just some thoughts.

They have special tape for making hems that is just ironed on, any fabric or hobby store usually have this, try using that before cutting the material it should prevent any fraying.

[jbshan]

Don,

1. Yes

2. They had lots of spare canvas aboard, both as spare and as used, unserviceable sails.

3. The canvas kept the water out to begin with, and was painted to further water proof it.  They got the hammocks up and washed and dried them when they could.

4. Yes.

5. Maybe, but you'd never see it, being covered up with the hammocks.

 

You could use a little thinned white glue or acrylic paint to seal the edges.  My 'bag' is hand-sewn, with the seams inside.  Eventually I'l put a thin coat of paint on, off-white probably.  That'll further seal things up.

[jbshan]

Try this link:

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14557-typical-stowage-hammock-stowagehow-was-it-done-edited-by-admin

And here is one of the pics if the link doesn't work.

 

[mikiek]

Hello Don & Joel - good idea with the hem tape. Now to make some sort of eyelets for tie downs.

 

I had made the canvas tube originally to hide what was underneath. I didn't want to have to make 175 of those little buggers so most of what's under the wrap is a square stick and a dowel. But now I'm seeing that maybe I can do the same by tying off the canvas on the outside, going over the stanchions and tying off on the inside. There would be nothing on the underside. Edge on it would look like an inverted U.

 

I think I'm a netting fan but was being lazy. I figure if the canvas was covering everything why bother with the netting? With the new plan for the canvas maybe I should consider adding netting. Of course if my netting shows then my faux hammocks may show too.

 

I'd love to add the ropes to the hammock ends but not sure I want to try it. Unrolled the hammocks are 1" x 3/4" . That's pretty small. I will reconsider the lashing I added to the hammocks. I was trying to add anything just to keep them from looking like a piece of rolled up material. They need something to add interest. Any ideas?

 

Joel mentioned and I have seen some stanchions raised off the rail by one or more posts. I was basing the stanchions off my gun deck section build and they were not raised. The Niagara plans show them flat on the rail. If I raise the stanchions then I would need to add netting between them to keep the hammocks off the rail.

 

Thank you gentlemen! Some great feedback and you are making me rethink the design.

[donrobinson]

Hey Mike, I think the way you have your hammocks tied looks real good, I wasn't suggesting you change them I was just curious how the ":real ones" may have been tied. And I sure wasn't thinking you should sew ropes to the sides of the hammocks either that is............unless I can come watch   ....from a distance of course.  

[jbshan]

In 1/2" scale, so about the size of your gun deck, Mike, I got some square rod, annealed the brass and made big 'U's.  I made rings from round stock and soldered them to the tops.  Using more of the square rod, I made shallow 'U's with points on the ends.  These I soldered to the bottoms of the big 'U's, and these short 'U's are stuck into holes in the cap rail.  I think you can just see the double thickness.  The short ones are beside the tall ones, not underneath.

The photo is kind of poor, so I didn't post it anywhere.

 

[6ohiocav]

Guys,

 

I am soaking up all of this wisdom in anticipation of tackling this project myself.  Thanks for all of the input.

[mikiek]

Joel - is your last pic from the same build as the similar pic you posted earlier (the one with the guy dressed in white)? Did you add netting? That pic had canvas on the sides but nothing on top.

[jbshan]

Yes, Mike, the same display for the gun.  This is an early stage in making and setting up the hammock rail.

[mikiek]

Try this link:

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14557-typical-stowage-hammock-stowagehow-was-it-done-edited-by-admin

And here is one of the pics if the link doesn't work.

 

post-8878-0-86273400-1478334421_thumb.jpg

 

Wondering about some of these pix. The canvas almost looks like it is draped over some hoops or something. The shape is too perfect. Also assuming any hammocks underneath would lay horizontal? The whole thing looks rather modernized.

[mikiek]

Bummer! I ran into a few snags this evening. I remade one of the stanchions using a beefier piece of wire. Went to check the measurements and both the new one and the others that I made yesterday are too big. And if I follow the plans, the stanchions should be only about 1/4" tall. That leads to another problem or at least a big question. Bare with me.

 

The hammock inset on the plans is at 3/8" = 1' . Twice the actual scale of 3/16" = 1'.  The plans show the stanchions as 1/2" tall, so at actual scale they would be 1/4" tall. If you scale that up to life size I believe that means the stanchions would be about 16" tall. Now take a 6' hammock, fold it in half to get 3' and that is what the stanchions are supposed to hold. I think it would look pretty goofy even if covered by canvas.

 

I've already decided to change the stanchion height to about 3/8". Given that there will be a thin wood rail (probably a 3/32"x3/32" stick) at the top of the stanchions and at least 1 rail under that (the plans show 2) I need the extra length and it doesn't look funny on the actual boat.

 

But I don't think the hammocks will look right standing vertical. So horizontal? End to end or stacked? Could also lay them diagonally semi stacked?

[jbshan]

Horizontal or diagonal, whichever fits best.  An old photo of a US Navy ship (on DANFS, probably) showed the hammocks stowed on a diagonal, in a wooden hammock rail (the wooden closing called berthing, for some reason).

I make the hammock rails about 28", in both the sheer plan and the detail view, so 28/64" or 7/16".  I have a dial caliper with a fractional scale, in 1/64", which makes this particular model scale easy to measure.  If you can't find one, perhaps one of the digital ones will have a fractional scale.

[mikiek]

I'll look around for some pix Joel. If done diagonally are the hammocks still doubled over? Seems like it might make more sense to roll them but NOT fold them in half.

 

Given everything I've described I'm beginning to wonder if I just make the entire run covered over with the canvas and not show any hammocks.

[jbshan]

The hammocks in the photo were folded in half, in fact that was the best view I found showing this.  The covering flap was usually closed up tight.  This particular view showed a bit of one end of the line of hammocks.