Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build

[yancovitch]

don't remember.....is the hull being widened?

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello Vic!  Yes, the hull is being widened by a half inch, in order to accomodate the six-light stern that is shown in the Berain drawing.  That is largely the reason why I am cutting the hull down to a waterline diorama - because doing so will enable me to cast resin bow extension pieces from the most bluff/flattest portion of the hull, near the stem.

 

When I approximate the new hull width, by standing the hull halves, opposite each other, the impression of the model as a seaworthy craft is, in my opinion, greatly improved.

 

I have been thinking for some time that I will recycle the kit's window frames for the stern, and simply make a resin casting for each missing sixth window.  Lately, I've been thinking that I might just try and buy someone's abandoned, and partially built SR kit, so that I can salvage the missing sixth windows, as well as the main deck arched gunports that I want to place in a more correct, vertical plane.

 

Right now, there is an early pressing of the kit, like the one I am working with, on EBAY for $36.  The shipping is more than the highest bid.  When one considers that I inherited this kit, a small cash outlay doesn't seem so bad.

 

Also, if I had a second kit at my disposal, I have an idea that I could lengthen the reclining figures of Europe and Asia (atop the tafferal) by splicing in two seperate 1/8" slices, from the kit-bash box of spare parts, somewhere in the figures' legs and the bodies of the horse and camel.  I could, then, re-shape the bottom edge of these figures to closely scribe to the new and altered cyma curve of the tafferal.

 

Theoretically, it would be easier than re-modeling the figures in polymerized clay.  I haven't, yet, given that idea a serious look to see exactly how and where that might be feasible.

 

Does anyone out there want to sell a partially built or damaged beyond repair Heller kit?

[popeye2sea]

I have my first kit of SR still boxed up in my basement.  The hull got warped somehow so I had to replace it.  I ended up buying a whole new kit so I still have the mostly unbuilt original. I will have to check what condition it is in but you are more than welcome to whatever you may need.

 

Regards,

[Hubac's Historian]

Wow, Really?!!  Henry, that would be incredible!  There are a few very specific pieces that I am interested in and they are the following, in no particular order:

 

The upper bulwark pieces (to cut out the arched port surrounds)

The upper stern plate for the windows

The bowsprit pieces (knees of the head) that support the figurehead and fit in behind the figurehead - these were particularly warped on mine and may only be salvageable with judicious use of heat

The bulkhead plate that fronts the forecastle

The figures of Europe and Asia (horse and camel)

The lower stern gallery corbel figures of Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall (that Battle of Barfleur painting that I posted recently has me wondering about something, if I could ever see a closeup of SR)

Perhaps, also, the middle and upper stern balconies, which I may be able to extend to the new stern width with a similar cutting and splicing effort - again, this was one of the kit details that was particularly nicely worked, and it would be hard to do better from scratch, especially considering that there is a pretty close fidelity, there, to the Berain drawing.

 

Come to think of it - if you still have the warped lower hull pieces, I could salvage the aft 3/8" for my stern extension pieces (cutting the same dimension away from the upper bulwark pieces);  these would then become the hull extensions I would have had to cast from resin.  Likewise, my 1/4" bow widening pieces could also be cut from the warped hull halves and fixed to my modified hull halves.  With that in mind, I would also need the bow hawser inserts, if you haven't already glued them in place.  That would be ideal - saving me an enormous amount of time and effort.

 

What would you like for your trouble and expense?  I would be more than happy to pay your price for them, and of course, the shipping.  But only so long as you don't see yourself doing anything with the kit now or ever.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Hubac's Historian]

And the list grows...

 

I suppose I could also do with 4 - 6 of the stern balcony corbel supports, since I'll be making the middle and upper balconies wider.

[reklein]

Looks like Dan is right on the scarf joint thing. My bad.

[yancovitch]

why not just grab the whole kit if possible ? ....ya never know what eltz you might need.....

[Hubac's Historian]

No worries, Reklein!

 

You know, Vic, that isn't a bad idea about taking the whole kit.  I'm not sure how enthusiastic my father would be about my stashing yet another model in his basement, which he is forever trying to get me to consolidate.

 

The Heller Victory, which truly is a fantastic model, is the crown of the fleet, and it is just waiting for me to own a home where it will have space to co-exist with SR.

 

My thought with the Victory was to convert her from the 1805 appearance to her 1765 appearance, which I think would be highly feasible, so long as I were willing to re-build the stern and trim down the heightened sheerline to the vestigial, ornamental rail.  But those are all musings for another decade in life.

 

For the time being, I only keep with me in NYC the parts that I am working on (again, space issues), while the rest sits in the box in PA.

 

The truth is, though, that the vast majority of what comes in the SR box will be better made from scratch, when the time comes for that.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[EJ_L]

Be careful what you wish for... If he gets both kits we may end up seeing two versions of S.R. being built side by side.

[shipmodel]

Hi Marc - 

 

You are welcome to store stuff in my locker in the basement of my building.  Not really convenient, since you are in Manhattan, but better than PA

 

Dan

 

[shipmodel]

Hi again - 

 

When you get the second kit, it will give you lots of test pieces to work out solutions to issues like the grain.  As to that, I am sure that you have already worked out how you are going to simulate wood on the plastic surface.  Once you have that base layer on which should fill the grain a bit, you might consider a 'filter' wash of very dilute darker color.  It should settle into grooves of the grain to make them visible without overemphasizing them.  Just a technique that I read in FineScale Modeler.

 

Looking forward to seeing how you work it out.  Puzzle problems like this are the best part of ship modeling for me.

 

Dan

 

[CédricL]

15 hours ago, popeye2sea said:

I have my first kit of SR still boxed up in my basement.  The hull got warped somehow so I had to replace it.  I ended up buying a whole new kit so I still have the mostly unbuilt original. I will have to check what condition it is in but you are more than welcome to whatever you may need.

 

Regards,

Hello Marc (and others of course)

 

Well, Popeye' help will be maybe more easy for you than waiting spare parts from Belgium !

But if you need it, I also have some carvings and parts of the SR that will be useless for my own project....let me know.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Oh, before I forget it, I think the plans (side elevation and stern - but not sure for that - are in the Danish Archives. I'll try to look for when I'll have 5 minutes free.

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

You know, EJ, I haven't the heart to do it to the waterline model I'm making, right now, but a part of me thinks it would be really fun to do a diorama of a battle scarred SR, after the Battle of Barfleur, off the coast of Cherbourg, as the fire ship inches ever closer, off her starboard quarter.

 

I'm going to give Henry full license to retract his offer, if he is having second thoughts, but it would be fun to poke a few cannon ball holes into his warped hull halves to experiment and try to see whether I could achieve a good splinter effect, at scale.  

 

Cedric, I also appreciate your offer, but I will wait and see, first, whether Henry and I can work something out.

 

That is also a generous offer, on your end, Dan which I may take you up on in some way shape or form.  At some point, when my ship starts becoming a thing, I'll need to say farewell to my first SR.  A close friend of mine has always admired the ship, but his wife might have other ideas about the available real estate on their home.  Maybe she (the ship, not his wife😜) can live in your storage locker until I find a home for her.

 

Speaking to your advice on paint and finish Dan, I was quite delighted, yesterday, to hear from Herbert Tomesan, who's scratch work in plastic is largely the inspiration for this build.  I had written to him, asking about his particular finish protocal, and he wrote back in very specific terms that he gave me permission to share.  It is surprisingly simple, and the results are impeccable.  I will publish a post, later, when I can also publish pictures of his diorama models of Hollandia and the Provincien.  Thank you Herbert!

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[EJ_L]

That diorama would be really cool to see. With technology the way it is you could even include L.E.D.s to simulate fire, simulate smoke, canon fire and even put in speakers to project sounds of battle. Hmm... maybe one day... 

[Hubac's Historian]

No kidding, EJ!  I maintain a Pinterest board that I call "Scale Realism".  First of all, the water effects that some of these steel navy guys achieve are astounding - you would swear you're Gulliver staring down at these miniature worlds that are rendered with photographic realism.  Then, there are the fire effects guys who are modeling planes exploding on runways with blast point, changing fire and smoke intensity; it is just not to be believed!

Edited September 8, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Hubac's Historian]

Cedric - regarding the Danish website:  I had been methodically scanning through the list.  I found the image you had referenced a while ago, which was a starboard broadside view of maybe the Foudroyant of 1693.  Quarter galleries were indicated, but no ornamentation was shown.  Are you thinking of a different image?  Do you have an approximate idea where in the numbered list it can be found?

[popeye2sea]

I just checked what is left of the kit in the basement and I believe I have all that you are looking for.  Send me a pm with your address and I will forward the pieces to you.  I am not sure sending the whole kit will be a good idea.  It is very bulky and would be very expensive to ship.

 

Regards,

[Hubac's Historian]

So, without further delay, this is Herbert Tomesan's finish protocol, as related by Herbert himself:

 

"I sand the plastic first by grain 80 or even sometimes 40. Were you can't reach it, the tip of a scalpel will also create wood structure.

After that I spray everything with Humbroll 63. I have no experience with acrylics, but after spraying the primer and then applying something like acrylic dessert yellow you let it dry. After drying you paint everything with Winsor and Newton "van Dyck's brown". Use it as pure as possible. It will look like shoe polish. This you will have to remove directly after applying. Take most off with a piece of cloth (towel) after that taking more off by big brush (cheap one with tough hair, after that softer brush and at the end with Q-tips, or the tip of your finger. Do a test with a small shipmodel first (the rowing boat, or a santa maria.)"

 

And here are a few examples of the results.  All models are completely scratch-built-up upon vaccu-formed shells with an assortment of sheet and strip styrene.  Herbert is amazing!  And, in my opinion, his models really capture the essence of the Van de Veldes.  Just look at Hollandia (last two pictures):

TheT

The Provincien, below (first pic only.  Not sure what ship the following two pics are)

 

Hollandia

Edited September 14, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[shipmodel]

Hi Marc - 

 

I used a very similar technique when I did the Heller Sovereign of the Seas.  First a primer, then a base coat of buff yellow flat acrylic.  The difference is that I then used a wash of brown wood stain rather than a full opaque layer of brown paint which has to be partially removed.  The issue I found with an opaque coat is that it is difficult to remove equally, especially around protrusions.  Thus you get dark patches, like the lines across the stern of the Hollandia.  You may have similar problems with the bolt heads on your wales.

 

I completely agree with Herbert that you should do a lot of testing before committing to the final model.  I know that your artistic talents are up to the job.

 

Dan

 

[Hubac's Historian]

I certainly agree with you, Dan, about experimentation, and experiment I will!  The results you achieved on the Sovereign are very good.

 

I'm glad you mention the darkening effect around the boltheads of Herbert's models.  I believe this effect is intended to represet the iron staining of the fasteners in the oak; a happy convergence of technique and intent.  

 

One of the things I will experiment with is lightly dry-brushing the through-bolt heads (at the scarfs and the transom knees, only) with some kind of dark grey, almost black color.  I think that, along with the staining residue left from the opaque wash will create a nice effect.

 

I will also probably use a more translucent wash coat, sparingly, to see what sort of depth that adds.  Even though the period of time I am trying to represent is relatively brief (1689-1692), and the ship was newly re-built, her hull would already have darkened considerably, just being on the water.  But then, a lighter sand base coat, would be another way of modulating the oxidation so that it is appropriate for the age of the new timber.

 

The other thing that I find interesting about Herbert's model of Hollandia (last two pictures) is the darkened band of the two lower wales, which I suppose would represent a protective coat of creosote, or black stuff.  On SR, this is always represented as being painted black, but might it be more realistic to indicate a darkened appearance?

 

I have likewise been debating, for example, whether to paint the wales, up to and just below the main deck guns, a near black, in a matte finish.  The argument for painting the wales is that, with so many through-bolt fasteners, the paint would effectively seal the area right around each bolt head.  But, then again, would a darkened creosote color be more appropriate?

 

All of these are points for debate!

 

In other news, Henry (Popeye2Sea) has very graciously agreed to send me the extra parts I need for my splice and dice experiments into broadening and lengthening the hull.  It is really heartening that this community is so supportive and helpful with their knowledge and advice, and spare parts!  Without it, I'm not sure what the status of this project would be.

 

Thank you, Henry!  And thank you, Dan and everyone else who stops by, weighs in, and likes this or that.  It is all greatly appreciated.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Hubac's Historian]

With the continuous bolting of the wales complete, I turned my attention to the hawser insert pieces, and I think I've done a fairly Doogie Hawser job of surgically in-letting the port side hawser piece.

 

The issue at hand is the dark ridge that you see, here, on the starboard side.  The planking is moulded and intended to be a smooth continuum, but the piece does not fit flush, and this is unnatural.

 

However, after using my fabulous Dremmel Micro to cut a diminishing rebate into the mounting edge of the piece, the aft edge sits flush with the rest of the planking.

This is not at all difficult to do, it is simply a matter of holding the piece in place, as you scribe the lower edge of the upper wale into the plastic, and the upper edge of the lower wale, with a single edge razor blade.  An emmory board cleans up the transition and the piece fits perfectly.  A little work on the aft joint, where it meets the hull, is required in order to minimize the need for putty - a touch of Squadron, though, and a little judicious leveling should make that transition line completely disappear.

 

I will have to do the same on the starboard side, obviously, and I will also have to fill and re-drill the hawse-holes, back closer to the stem, after I have performed my magically surgical widening of the hull, at the stem.

Just as the prior example illustrates my desire to make this model look less like the plastic kit that it is, the next example strives for a greater verisimilitude with real practice.

 

Here, I am showing the transom profile, which previously, I had trimmed back a generous 1/16", to the mounting ledge for the transom piece.  That's why the hull thickness seems so exaggerated, below the main wale, because it includes the mounting ledge.  The reason for doing this was so that I can model-in the round-up of the square-tuck stern.

 

However, even after grinding away the existing mounting ledge, the side planking still is way out of scale.  Ordinarily, with plastic models of this type, one would glue in the transom piece, and then fill-in any gaps - and then maybe, maybe scribe back in the partially filled plank lines.  As I will be building up the transom and stern from scratch, on the other hand, I saw this as an opportunity to thin the hull wall at the transom edge to a more scale-realistic plank thickness.

 

Into which, I then engraved the plank butt-ends

 

This process also creates, on the inboard hull a new mounting ledge for the transom planking that will be installed later.  Rinse, and then repeat on the starboard side!

 

Following that, I will glue in the hawser pieces, and then scribe-in and detail the 15th "hunting port," at the bow of the lower battery.  As this is already a fairly long build-log, and I've only just gotten started, I will periodically mention "the truth," or what "should be."  What the first battery should consist of is 16 piercings (to be consistent with what is known of SR1), with 15 armed at all times;  the 16th "hunting" port at the bow would only be armed by shifting the next gun, aft, into position when SR (and La Reyne, for that matter) were appropriately in pursuit of the enemy.  For my purposes, even a vestigial scribed 15th port - while it's not 16 - is still closer than 14.  Comme-ci, Comme-ca; a compromise of sorts.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Nek0]

Hello Marc, 

I follow your build and I like what I see so far. Great job with the nails on the wales. Concerning the hauser insert piece you did a great job, but you could have filled the gap making the oversized planking (oversized in this area to make the planking as thick as the wales so the anchors don't hook when pulled up). 

15 gun ports will do. "comme ci, comme ça" as you said but it's a point of detail, it's not critical.   

Concerning the hunting port on such big vessels as the Soleil Royal or La Reyne, it's highly doubtable that they ever hunt anything and in fact this gun port was never used. 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello NekO,

 

Great to hear from you!  Yes, thank you for your kind comments.  The protective sweep of planking that matches the thickness of the wales; this is a detail I will be adding, just after I scribe in the "hunting port".  I wanted to get the placement of the port right before adding in the sweep of thicker planks between it and the next port aft.

 

My decision to scribe the hunting port - as opposed to actually cutting it in - is based mostly on the fact that it wasn't an armed port.  Also, this is one detail where I can allow myself to be a little lazy and not go the extra mile.

 

What's new with the Royal Balsa, these days?

Edited September 17, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Nek0]

Ok you're right, these are good steps. Scribe the hunting port instead of cutting it is a good idea. 

The Royal Balsa has awoken and goes on, since I have less work than the two previous years. The plans have been slightly re-drawn concerning the quarter galleries, I worked on the guns, did a good mixture of colors to match the red of the inside plankings and the gunports, added the final gunports and windows openings, and the planking goes on on the left side. 

I will show pictures on the French forums (and maybe on this one if you think it's of some interest for you guys ??)  when some more work is done.  

[Hubac's Historian]

Are you kidding?!  If I think it would be "of some interest for you guys?"  Marc, people need to see what you are doing.  Your model is incredible and an interesting counter-point to Michel's equally impressive model.

 

Of course, if it were up to me, this would be a site entirely devoted to Soleil Royal, but I am an obsessive fan of the ship .  Please post pictures of your ship.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Hubac's Historian]

Marc, what specific aspect(s) of the quarter gallery did you have to change?  Can you show an original and revised drawing?

[CédricL]

13 hours ago, Hubac'sHistorian said:

Are you kidding?!  If I think it would be "of some interest for you guys?"  Marc, people need to see what you are doing.  Your model is incredible and an interesting counter-point to Michel's equally impressive model.

 

Of course, if it were up to me, this would be a site entirely devoted to Soleil Royal, but I am an obsessive fan of the ship .  Please post pictures of your ship.

I agree at 100 % (even 110).

 

The amount of work made just for the drawings of the ship is awesome in itself. This plus the model....

Also, I'm really happy to hear that the R.B. will be soon continued.

 

[Nek0]

Ok thank you !! I will post pictures of the Royal Balsa here !!  

I was just writing a PM to you to show the changes I did, let's show it on this thread. From a long time I wanted to re-align the gunports of the quarterdeck, it's done. The decorations have moved slightly. I listened to your advice and retouched a little bit the line above the gunports: lowered and a bit more arched. Consequently the space for the gunports and the decorations in this area is narrowed and it's better: less empty spaces. At last the above sheer cap railing is untouched, but I may give it a little bit more curve when building the model.

Below are a picture before and another after the mods.

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Very interesting, Marc.  The changes are subtle, but effective.  Not only did you relieve dead space around the quarter deck guns, but you gave just enough breathing room to the frieze above that it does not look cramped.  Most significantly, though, the acanthus escutcheons are better aligned with the gunports.

 

Will your main deck stern balcony wrap to an open walk at the quarters, with the two-window amortissement set in low relief against the ship's side?  Or will the quarter galleries be completely closed?  

Edited September 19, 2017 by Hubac'sHistorian

[Nek0]

Yes it was exactly the purpose.

And yes, it will be an opened gallery, exactly as you describe it.