Rattlesnake by ZevEisenberg - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[russ]

Finished fairing the bulkheads. All but three required bending, gluing, and sanding strips to both sides. This was the most difficult part of the build to date. It seemed like every time I finished fairing a bulkhead, its neighbors got worse. Some ended up having two or three layers of fairing strips added. hopefully, I’ll how get smooth planks to within a tolerance of less than a plank’s thickness, which still seems high.

 

How typical is this level of fairing? Is this an issue of model quality, experience, technique, or some combination?

 

bulkheads done.jpg

This is most likely an issue of an older kit where the bulkheads etc were laser cut from a plan that was CAD traced from the original hand drawn kit plan. If the plans had been completely redrawn and refaired in CAD, the bulkheads would accurate. This is an educated guess from my own inspection of this kit and several years now drawing my own plans in ACAD.   

 

Good work on the model so far.

 

Russ

[JPett]

Ahoy Zev

 

Welcome aboard

 

Your build and log look great. It is nice to see another Ratt build on MSW. Looking forward to seeing the transom mounted.

[sport29652]

Zev great to see that you have made the move. I think that makes for three ms rat builds. Will be following you closely

[Martin W]

Zev -- the best way to overcome cold-medicine induced drowsiness is to balance it with some Goat Brie!

 

You might find it useful to use a draw plate to get your toothpicks down to a proper size -- go check out the one on Jim Byrnes' site, http://byrnesmodelmachines.com/drawplate1.html

 

It's always important to fill your workspace with as many tools as possible so that you can spend more and more time trying to find the one you need and that you know you put somewhere.

 

But even with your injuries, I think you'll enjoy building the Rattlesnake -- it's an interesting model in lots of ways, and there are several of us now who are at various stages.  Good luck, I'll be following your progress.

 

Martin

[fish]

Zev

 

Looks good, looks like you are taking your time and investing for the future planking and beauty of the model. I have this one on my shelf and I am a few years away from building it so I will be watching your build!

 

Aaron

[fish]

I don't really get the fake window? Are you trying to be historically accurate or is there something I am missing?

[ZevEisenberg]

I think RiverRat is going to post a more authoritative answer, but I was in Boston recently and I happened to walk by the Boston Tea Party museum. There is a ship very similar to the Ratt berthed next to it, and it had a false window! It was night, and the other windows were lit from within, but that one was dark.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ZevEisenberg

[RiverRat]

Hi Aaron,

 

The Rattlesnake uses a tiller, no wheel, and the rudder post rises through the cabin up through the quarterdeck. It would block the use of a window in the middle, apparently. Here's a National Maritime Museum Admiralty drawing of the stern, showing the windowless space.

 

 

Just a frame or moulding for appearance it seems.

 

Other things to note:

 

The solid lines inside the "ears" of the carving may indicate a space between the sides and the carving rather than solid like in the kit models. See Pasi Ahopelto's scratch-build Rattlesnake here at MSW for example.

 

I believe the dark circle on the lower right might be the exit for the captain's "seat of ease"

 

Brian

[mog]

Zev Your build is looking good,

There are several of us  building Rattlesnakes ,  each has a different style, so there’s allot of  good  RS build info on the site.  Mine is also from Model Shipways, also  had some of the  problems with cuts  out of center on most bulkheads, plus the beams were so weak I had to cut them away as it was simpler, than gluing them every time they broke, also tossed all the precast parts preferring to build everything from wood.  I’m a big follower of  Frank Mastini’s work ,  following his style of using stain, rather than cover the wood with paint, it’s not for all but it works for me. Also I have found allot of good information in the Neophte Shipmodellers Jackstay by George F. Campbell. Look forward to seeing more from your build.. If you find the time have a look at my build log Rattlesnake by Mog  it's not the best build you will ever see, but it's where the path has taken me.

MOG

[sport29652]

Zev, have you taken a look at the cannons and carriages supplied with the kit? My carriage wheels are just plain stupid some look like eggs and others look like my wife's home made pizza's. looking to see if you have a souloution or a way of addressing these wheels

[ZevEisenberg]

RiverRat, that totally makes sense! Surprised I didn’t see it myself while dry-assembling things.

 

sport29652, my cannon wheels seem OK, although I haven’t cut them out yet. The cannon themselves are decent, except for the seam from metal casting. I don’t have a lathe, nor the lathe fu required to make my own. As this is my first build of this scale, I’m trying to keep it by-the-book as much as possible until I find my sea legs, so to speak.

 

Martin W, I actually have a draw plate, but it’s a pretty lousy one I got on Amazon. The holes are inconsistently cut and unmarked. If I end up actually needing it for anything else, I will likely buy the one you linked to.

[russ]

Zev:

You can get that seam out with some careful filing. A small jeweler's file would do the work. A good set of 4-5 inch files with various profiles will be a good thing to have in the shop.

 

As for the Byrnes plate, I also have one and I am entirely satisfied with it. Just made some treenails with it a while back and it is the best one I have used yet.

 

Russ

[ZevEisenberg]

I’ve been having some trouble with the tricky curves on the stern filler blocks. I don’t have an electric saw, and when I cut them with my coping saw, I must not have been perfectly vertical because they went inside the lines on the side that was on the bottom when I was cutting. It’s more obvious on the starboard block, which is not finished, but you can see how much extra wood I took out. I’ll probably get a new block of wood and try again. I will also use my Dremel to speed up some of the shaping. Does anyone recommend any particular techniques for this type of carving and shaping, other than a Dremel and a couple of sanding sticks and files?

 

An alternative would be to sand them to shape as best I can, glue them, and then patch up the gaps with a wood putty that hardens enough to sand it. Is that a viable option? What kind of wood putty is best? This section will be planked over, so color and paintability is not important.

 

 

[russ]

Given your situation with tools, you might be better off using wood filler with the pieces you have now and then sanding them down. I have used Elmer's wood filler with some success. I let it dry hard over night and then sand it out the next day. I would use coarse sand paper, probably 80 grit to start with, but do not use too much muscle. Let the paper do the work. Check with a plank often to test for fairness.

 

From your pics, you have a good deal of sanding to do, especially at the cross seam which is the bottom of the upper stern block in your photos. The planks run up to that cross seam in a fairly gentle curve.

 

Russ

[JPett]

AHoy Zev

 

When I beefcaked my fillers I stuck another piece of wood behind them pushing them out. Then I resanded. I had to put mine on the bulkhead side but see you would be better served putting it on the keel side

 

The little corner I would sand flat and glue wood to then resand  

 

PS: if you do this make sure you have the grain running the same way in both pieces

Edited May 8, 2013 by JPett

[Martin W]

Hi Zev -- I'd second (or 3rd) what JPet & Russ say.  Using a coping saw will almost inevitably end up leading you to have an uneven cut, no matter how well you think you're keeping the saw on a perfect vertical.  But you do want to get that filler as close to the actual curve as you can, since it will be the shape your planks follow.  --When I started this part on my Ratt I thought, oh, how easy -- then 3 weeks later I sang a different tune.  And now that I think about it, that's been pretty much the pattern I've followed with every step since.

 

And this goes back a few pages in your log, but I recall reading something about that extra stern window that some plans have it as a door, some a window.  Since we're dealing with drawings of something that ended its existence over 200 years ago, we get to speculate about these little details.  And I always think that unless you want to go for real historical accuracy, you can decide (and debate) how you want to handle those touches.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[ZevEisenberg]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I think I'll end up combining bits of all of them. I'm going to try squaring off and regluing the chipped corner, and I'll pick up some wood putty tomorrow. I got a couple of spare blocks of wood today, just in case, but if I can salvage these I'd prefer it.

Edited May 9, 2013 by ZevEisenberg

[ZevEisenberg]

From your pics, you have a good deal of sanding to do, especially at the cross seam which is the bottom of the upper stern block in your photos. The planks run up to that cross seam in a fairly gentle curve.

 

Russ, not quite sure what you mean by this. Do you mean the large gap in the first picture? If so, yes, that’s one of the things I want to fix when I repair or redo these. Or do you mean a different part?

[russ]

Zev:

I was referring to the area where the bottom planks will end at the transom. That is still quite full and will need some sanding. Dio not worry though. Right now, fuller is better.

 

Russ

[RiverRat]

Hi Zev,

 

Let me preface this by saying I'm a novice at this wooden ship building, I've done one of the two-layer planking of a (Mamoli) Rattlesnake and absolutely no others before, so you may easily ignore my advice. But, looking at your filler as-is, I feel that it would induce some radical plank bending near the ends, rather than forming a smooth transition from the previous bulkheads to the termination. I've marked a red line where it looks like severe bending might occur, where I would lessen the bend a bunch.

 

 

I've have seen some builds with such severe bends into the keel or counter, but it just doesn't seem ship-shape to me.  Look at some of the sterns, at the horizontal transom pieces below the counter (which these filler blocks emulate), in some of the plank-on-frame scratch builds, how there is a smooth gentle curve into the keel.

 

And I wouldn't worry about those little gaps/spaces unless there needs to be a strong glue bond there, such as the very end of a plank.

[russ]

RiverRat:

That area of the red arrow is exactly where I was talking about. Thanks for the edited photograph. That should explain it well.

 

Russ

[JPett]

Ahoy Zev

 

I would suggest you use the 1/32nd by 3/32nd wood in your kit and pin it to the bulkheads like a plank. (predrill it too).  When it comes across the fillers it should run into the sternpost and counter without too much effort. With what you have now they will need to make a sharp turn (bend) to get there. That is what you don't want. You will clearly see this with the plank.

 

Use the wood "Luke"

 

PS: I glued sandpaper to a dowel to sand this close then on a piece on wood the same width as a plank to finish it. On mine, I should have sanded it more then I did and paid for it when I planked

 

Take the time to do this right, it will pay off later

Edited May 9, 2013 by JPett

[sport29652]

Zev,

havent heard from ya in a while? whats goin on

[ZevEisenberg]

My other hobby has temporarily taken over. I’m also an iOS developer, and with the announcement and imminent release of iOS 7, I’ve been spending most of my free time playing with that. Fear not; I shall return to Rattlesnaking!

[sport29652]

No worries I understand, the past few months have slowed me down a bit, now that little league is over ill have me time too, good luck with the new iOS. I always look forward to more software like I

Look forward to a new strain of

The flu. Just kidding...... Not really

[ZevEisenberg]

After a long hiatus, I’m back! I took a break for a few months to work on another hobby of mine. Now that’s done, and I’m resuming work on my Rattlesnake.

 

When I left off, I was carving and sanding the bow and stern filler blocks. I think that part of the reason that I took a break was that it seemed like these things were taking forever with no real progress being made. Now, coming back to it, they needed only a light touchup before they were good to go.

 

For anyone reading this who has built the Model Shipways Rattlesnake recently (lookin’ at you, @JPett), I have a question. On page 12, steps 7 and 10 in my instructions, it talks about the knighthead and timberhead. I can’t find any mention in the plans or instructions as to which wood stock to use here. Should I just take my best caliper-assisted guess? What did you use on yours?

[JPett]

Ahoy Zev

 

Welcome back

 

As for your question

 

Check the plans there is a top down image that shows both the Knighthead and timberhead. I measured from these and used the kit wood. I upgraded my timberheads though, same thickness just deeper so that it sits further back in the hull. I was afraid I would break off the recommended size bending planks around the bow. The Knightheads must past through the laser cut forecastle covering boards so I kept those the same. These laser cut pieces were very helpful in aligning both the Knightheads and timberheads as one terminates there and the other passes through.

 

I found a pic, I hope it helps

 

After all that work to carve the fillers it was for me a little unnerving to start cutting into them

 

PS: My timberheads are only that thick on the top of the fillers. I cut out the part in the filler

Edited October 4, 2013 by JPett

[ZevEisenberg]

Thanks for the tips, @JPett. I like your solution of making the timberheads thicker, and I believe I’m correct in thinking that they won’t be seen because they are on the inside anyway?

 

I was looking through your build, and as far as I could tell, you haven’t yet installed the waterway? Is there any particular reason for this? It is next in my instructions, so here it is being bent on a pegboard I threw together. Also, my finished bow and stern filler blocks. Some of my carving on the stern blocks was a bit aggressive, hence the wood putty.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by ZevEisenberg

[JPett]

Ahoy Zev

 

If you look at early pics of my build you will see I had installed some wood between the bulkheads at the deck line. I figured the instructions had you installing the waterways to reinforce the hull for planking which I had already. In hindsight installing the water way is best. I will just do mine when I plank the interior wales. I am very good at making extra work for myself

 

PS: You will find the filler does not like pins. Keep this in mind when you plank your stern.

Edited October 4, 2013 by JPett

[NenadM]

Good work