Viking Longship by Binho - Dusek - Scale 1:72 - Model based on the 11th Century Skuldelev 2 wreck

[Binho]

 

Thank you!

 

On 10/8/2020 at 6:50 PM, Louie da fly said:

So the layers on the mast fish are the grain of the timber? Or do I still have it wrong and the fish itself is made of plywood? I take it if you stain it again it won't change anything - that the different colours will still be obvious?

 

The layers are the different layers of the plywood. I'm assuming the difference is since the grain direction alternates, one layer probably absorbs more stain than the other depending on the grain orientation. I'm sure the glue between the layers plays a part too! I'm just going to leave it as is, I can always repaint it later.

 

Otherwise, happy to report the oars, mast, and yard are finished and stained. 60 oars was a lot of work! What's left is the oar ports, attaching the rudder, the rigging, and the sail in roughly that order.

 

Right now I'm on a bit of hiatus as life overtook me again, and I've been doing more 3D on my spare time. I'm also kind of nervous to drill the oar ports! I drilled one, and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Since the holes are only 2mm, I thought I could just drill it directly to that dimension with my pin vise. But because of how the strakes overlap, 2mm means the bit has to go through two strakes. I'm afraid I'll crack a strake, so I'm definitely going to have to do pilot holes. I might even consider doing a 1mm pilot hole, and then just sanding up to 2 mm, but that would be a lot more work.

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

12 hours ago, Binho said:

But because of how the strakes overlap, 2mm means the bit has to go through two strakes. I'm afraid I'll crack a strake, so I'm definitely going to have to do pilot holes. I might even consider doing a 1mm pilot hole, and then just sanding up to 2 mm, but that would be a lot more work.

 

Maybe the best thing to do would try it on some scrap - duplicate the overlapping strakes as best you can and drill a 1mm pilot hole and see if it breaks. Then follow it up with a 2mm drill. Scrap "feasibility studies" are always worthwhile. If it stuffs up, you haven't lost anything.

[liteflight]

My favourite for (largely) round holes in thin, delicate material is a needle file, preferably of the diamond-embedded type twiddled in the fingers sensitively.  
The choice of shape depends on the job but most have needle points.  I might make the first hole with a round file then change to triangular or square to enlarge the hole slowly.  Yes, they will make odd polygonal holes but these can be circularised (is this a word?) with the round or half round file either twiddled or used as a file (!) 

 

there should be no splitting tendency so long as the file is just rotated without the taper being pushed in.

[Cathead]

Both of these comments match my experience. Testing on scrap is never a bad idea, and I've had good success using needle files (twisted, not pushed) to gently widen holes. Good luck!

[luponero]

Congratulations Roberto, your shipyard is very interesting, as are the mutual "analogies" that exist, the passion for long and ancient ships, surely the ship you are masterfully building was one of the models I had thought of making, then I chose to la triere, starting from a drawing by Dusek and elaborating it, necessarily (another analogy), I visited your sites, very beautiful,
maybe another analogy deriving from your name, are you of Italian origin?
If all these analogies are interconnected I assume that a Venetian galley is a type of boat that you could build, I think it would give you great satisfaction,
I will follow your construction site with pleasure and interest,

with regard

black Wolf

[Binho]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I'm definitely going to try some ideas out on a scrap replica. The real issue is the hole would have to go straight through the overlap in the planks, so I'm afraid the bigger drill bit will push the planks apart. I might end up doing a small pilot hole and then the file. I'll try some different things tomorrow when I'll have some time to work on the model.

 

On 11/3/2020 at 4:07 PM, luponero said:

I visited your sites, very beautiful,
maybe another analogy deriving from your name, are you of Italian origin?
If all these analogies are interconnected I assume that a Venetian galley is a type of boat that you could build, I think it would give you great satisfaction,

 

Thanks Lupo! Yes, I'm from Italy but I grew up outside of Italy and now I live in the USA My parents now live near Rieti and my sister in Milano. I've always been a big fan of Venetian galleys too, I like all the long oared ships! I've always wanted to one day build this galley:

 

 

I would probably try it digitally before I do it in wood though. I'm still more comfortable with digital - at least you can CTRL-Z to undo any mistakes

[Binho]

A bit of progress! Wednesday has become my ship model working day while my wife is taking a class. Continued drilling the oarports. After messing with some scrap, the solution I settled on is drilling with the 2mm bit through nearly 1 plank thickness, then using a circular file to widen the hole and file out the top plank. It’s slow going, and unfortunately the glue joint between the oar strake and the strake below partially popped. It was an easy fix though! I’m sure it’ll happen again before I’m through, but I don’t see any other way. 12 down, 48 to go!

 

[Binho]

17/60...

I decided to throw on some butterfly clips to hold the strakes together while I drill, and the glue joint seems to be holding better.

 

 

I’m also considering doing a weather vane instead of a dragon head. We have depictions and descriptions for both, and have some actual weather vane finds. I think the gold would go really nice with the red and black scheme. Here’s a 12th-century carving of ships prow, an actual vane, and the Sea Stallion with a vane.

 

[Louie da fly]

Very nice Ringericke style (late 10th - early 11th century Viking) decoration on that vane.

[Binho]

Yeah! There is also this other super intricate one from Soderala, Sweden from the same period. They survived because they were repurposed as weather vanes on churches.

 

[Louie da fly]

Please tell me you're not going to duplicate the engraving on this thing. Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire . . .

[Binho]

Lol, no I wasn’t planning on it! At this scale I would need some insane equipment to do that. Mine will probably look about as detailed as that carving, haha.

[bigpetr]

Definitely go for a vane, I love it .

 

Do you, knowleable guys, know if vanes were used in the end of 9th century? I would love to do vane on Gokstad ship, but as far as I know vanes were probably not used yet in this period in Norway.

[Louie da fly]

As far as I know there's simply no information for or against. The two extant examples can be dated by the decorative style to the late 10th-early 11th century. But that's all that exists, and those only survived by chance. If others existed, the likelihood is that they were melted down for the gold.

 

But there's nothing to say they didn't exist in the 9th century, any more than that they did.

[bigpetr]

Thank you Louie, that is the information I hoped for . My hands are free to do what I like

Edited November 18, 2020 by bigpetr

[Louie da fly]

I think so. I don't think anybody out there - not even academics who specialise in such things - is qualified to tell you you're wrong . . .

Edited November 19, 2020 by Louie da fly

[Binho]

Steven is right, we don't know. We actually know even less about the "dragon heads" on the prow, none has ever been found. I think they've become more of a visual meme than a historical truth. One carved ship's figurehead from Belgium, currently in the British Museum, was initially claimed to be Viking. However it turned out to be late Roman after radio-carbon dating.

 

As far as I'm aware, all the evidence for dragon heads is from the sagas (which are 12th-14th century) and 11th century or later art and graffiti. And even then, the dragon-heads seem to be associated with the larger ships, like Skuldelev 2, dating from around the late 10th-century onward.  So a vane is just as likely as a dragon's head, in terms of evidence, I'd say!

[Binho]

@bigpetr here is more info on the weathervanes: https://sagy.vikingove.cz/scandinavian-cloak-pins-with-miniature-weathervanes/

 

Seems that in art prior to the 11th century the weather vanes tended to be placed at the top of the mast.

 

Here are all the known vanes, which date from 1000-1300. Aside from the horse, there are a few other known finials.

 

Here are their depictions in iconography, from 800-1300

 

A cool candlestick holder (1100-1300) in the shape of a ship with weather vanes at both ends

[Louie da fly]

That's fascinating stuff, Binho. One thing that the link makes clear is that many, if not most weathervanes originally had short metal "streamers" coming out from them - there are still holes showing where they used to be. The "miniatures" show them as they must have been - 

 

    

 

The other thing is that the ones that had their decoration just engraved rather than "pierced" through the metal plate probably had different decorative motifs on the different sides.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Louie da fly

[bigpetr]

Great info on vanes. 👍

[Binho]

Yeah, I learned a lot from that link! Here is the weather vane from the Sea Stallion with the metal streamers, a reconstruction of the Soderala vane. It's a beautiful work of art imo:

 

[Louie da fly]

Exquisite!

[Scott N]

Binho, reading your progress descriptions and seeing the photos is both inspiring and intimidating!  I bought this kit earlier this year and am just getting started on it.  I'll use your experience as a helpful guide!

Scott Newland, Minneapolis, MN

[Cathead]

Binho, how's your project coming? It was a hard winter for many of us but I hope you've come through ok and will be able to work on this model again soon. It's been such fun to follow!