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    Ancient Greek, Roman, and Medieval Ships

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  1. Ok! Here you go - first there was a good HD turnaround of the 3D model they made, but also some good shots of some of the visible deck features. Looks like one hatch by the foremast and some bitts (is that the correct term?). Also captured a shot of the aftercastle area showing what looks like a space underneath. You can also see a fallen rail with some posts that might have held some lines? I'm still very green with this ship stuff, so I'll leave it to you to interpret! I've been experimenting with photogrammetry recently and out of curiosity I'm going to try extracting some frames and seeing if I can create my own 3D models of parts of this ship. Should by high enough quality images to get a rough model. If I get anything decent I'll post a link to it so you can have a look around as well.
  2. Looking beautiful Dick! The Black Sea documentary available here had HD closeups of some deck furniture I believe. Would it be at all helpful if I took a few screenshots for you?
  3. Thanks Vulcan. The end ribs are angled, but they are not part of the deck assembly. I double checked the next steps and also the plans. They definitely show the main frames/ribs as vertical, and with vertical slots:
  4. Just seeing this, very interesting! Thanks for sharing. The construction details seem very similar to those of the Skuldelev ships which are only 120 or so years earlier. The keelson looks nearly identical to the Skuldelev 2 one. Found a more detailed article about these Wismar shipwrecks (there were 3 apparently) here: https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/viking-shipwreck-0011764 There is also a PDF and video of their 2018 ISBSA presentation on their 3D documentation techniques: https://www.academia.edu/38365079/Mass_Documentation_of_Archaeological_Ship_Timbers_-_Introducing_a_Novel_Time-Efficient_Approach https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipORtq65p5PVkZFpvN0eSDwLThD1u_DojX0TXdgZmYQIDhtOdS26GMytmS_yadI-gA?key=b3dMczJHbG53VElZNHZQQk1EQjg0Nm5rVVljMUhR
  5. Ok, so I’ve gone back a step and detached the deck from the frames again as I was not happy at how they were aligned. I’m having problems with this step in the instructions. It calls for the deck to be glued to the frames first, and then the whole assemblage to be glued to the keel: The problem is this deck assembly is flat, while the keel is rockered. So once the deck is curved to fit the keel profile the frames are no longer vertical and need to be more or less forced in to the keel slots, which is bad. I think this is one of the reasons the keel got so warped in my previous attempt. I dry fitted everything again and you can see how far out of vertical alignment the frames are being pushed by the deck. You can also see my new additions to the building jig to make sure the keel stays straight: My plan, unless anyone has a better approach, is to make the frame slots in the deck much wider so the frames fit nice and square. Then with the frames still in the keel I will glue the deck to them first, and once everything is dry will make sure everything is still aligned and finally glue it all to the keel. This step has been very frustrating so far. Hopefully then I can finally move on to planking!
  6. Update time! I dry fitted the frames and the deck, using clips to try and keep everything centered and aligned: I then glued the deck to the frames as per the instructions, and try fitted it again. The alignment of the rear to frames looks a little off, but that should be fixed when the deck gets glued down: it’s not perfect but it’s looking a lot straighter at least! I’ve glued some keel reinforcements on as well to further try and keep everything straight. Hopefully it works! I’ve been working on the oars as I go, 16/60 done. Made some shields too, 2/60. Also purchases a great book on the Skuldelev ships. It’s usually $80-$100 but I found a used one like new for $45 and couldn’t pass it up. Very interesting book with lots of good info (and plans for all the ships too).
  7. Quick update. The replacement keel arrived about two weeks ago. I also got some books: Mastini’s Ship Modeling Simplified and Wolfram zu Monfeld’s Historic Ship Models based on recommendations on other threads. So I’ve been doing some reading! Today I just glued the keel pieces together. I also bought a nice flat MDF board to make a building jig, as suggested in the books, to try and keep everything straight this time!
  8. Thanks for the tips Doug and Mark. I contacted Daniel via e-mail, and he very kindly offered to send a replacement keel free of charge! Very much appreciated! So build is mostly on hold until then, might make some more oars and shields while I wait. Alberto
  9. Unfortunately I haven't seen The Castle Glad the site might be useful! I've been procrastinating and looking through his Asia and Africa galleries, and found some dhows for you too. Appears to be the same concept as the Italian and Spanish ones, but slightly larger ships. Red Sea Sambuk calcet and truss: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/AF/slides/af_0077.html Dhow calcet and truss - interesting that it has a counterweight: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/AS/slides/As_0017.html Omani dhow, with interesting parrel: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/AS/slides/As_0018.html Persian Gulf two masted Baghla: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/AS/slides/As_0045.html Sambuk main mast rigging plan: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/AS/slides/As_0062.html Man, so much good stuff here! Should get back to doing what I should actually be doing, lol. Looking forward to your next dromon update! Alberto
  10. +1 for the 'goosewing' sails, looks cool I was doing some unrelated research, and completely by accident I stumbled on an Italian website that may be of interest to your lateen sail/yard dilemma. This website has hundreds of drawings of traditional ships and boats, mainly from the 1800-1900's but some earlier. Unfortunately, the images can't be embedded so you'll have to click through. Here are some sail positions of a small Spanish lateen rigged vessel from the 19th century. Maybe this is common knowledge on here, but was new to me Drawings progress from close hauled, to full downwind. A bido describes when the sail is in front of the mast, don't know the english term. Yard was horizontal when wind is coming from behind - looks very much like what is going on in your paintings!: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/BEU/slides/BE_873.html He also has some detailed close ups of how the yard was fixed on to the mast on Catalan vessels: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/BEU/slides/BE_887.html And also on small-medium (~15m/30 tons) sized 19th century Ligurian trading vessels of the leudo type: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/Italia1/slides/023 Leudo.html EDIT: Even better, a simplified version of the above showing exactly what was going on: https://www.cherini.eu/etnografia/Italia1/slides/032 Liguria - leudo rivano - bozzelli - trozza.html I suggest looking through his galleries, might be a lot more useful info that I missed! Even just for fun, they are great drawings
  11. Hmm, what would be the best way to go about making a new keel? I’ve found a model shop in town that sells wood for model airplanes. Would that be good enough quality? And what sort of saw should I use to cut it?
  12. Thanks Steven! No, I won’t be doing a figurehead. Was aiming to keep everything as stock as possible for my first go. The figurehead I used on the CG model was based directly on the figurehead created for the Helge Ask, the reconstruction of the Skuldelev 5 wreck by the Viking Ship Museum: http://helgeask.dk Yeah, google searching Viking stuff can be difficult! They’ve been so heavily mythologized at this point, a lot of it is pure fantasy. I know they found some posts and some tent poles in the Oseberg and Gokstad ships with dragon decorations, but both of those ships are earlier than the Skuldelev ships. For the Skuldelev 2 reconstruction, the Sea Stallion, the only decoration they made was a weathervane based on the one found in Heggen, Norway, from the same period and in the Ringerike style. Apparently there is a carving from the 13th century showing those styles of vanes on the prow of ships (see the weathervane link) I pulled out the keel again and after sitting away for a week it’s even worse than before!
  13. Thanks Steven! That's a really useful link, haven't decided what to do with the shields yet. Not much progress on the model. The books got most of the bend out, but it's still not great. I'm considering my next step now and doing more research on here if there are any other keel-straightening techniques. In the meantime, here is a CG model I teased in my introduction post that I finally finished and put online: (Unfortunately the embed code for Sketchfab doesn't seem to work here!) Viking Longship by Opus Poly on Sketchfab
  14. Thanks for the links Steven! I am familiar with both of them from my previous research for my Skuldelev 5 3D model The Viking Ship Museum's website is really great for research, they put up a lot of info there. Hopefully my second attempt goes better! I already sanded down the slots in the frames so they fit better. Tomorrow morning I'll slip the soaked keel under some heavy books to try and flatten it out. My toe will take 2-4 weeks to heal, which sadly means no fieldwork for awhile and just a lot of office work. Oh well!

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