Phantom by gulfmedic1 - Model Shipways - Scale 1:96 - Solid Hull - first wood ship build

[gulfmedic1]

Hi all

This is my first wood ship build period, so far I am really enjoying it, thanks for all the input on my other topics you guys are great.

I am in the beginning parts and have only done the Keel area and now I am about to start fairing the hull. These are my pics so far. Like everyone else any comments, hints are very welcomed. I will try to be as detailed as possible so anyone else who is new can follow.

Thanks for looking at my build

[gulfmedic1]

I followed Chucks instructions and used the kits instructions in combination. It makes it much easier the way Chuck explains by trimming an 1/8" off the stern post. For new guys understand there is still a good bit of sanding to get the templets to meet

[Anja]

Hello Gulfmedic1,

 

Gulfmedic1 is probably not your real name, how may we address you?

 

Good luck building your Phantom and happy modeling.

I will be following along

 

Take care,

 

Anja

[gulfmedic1]

sorry my name is Scott

[Anja]

Hello Scott,

 

No need to apologize. Nice to meet you.

 

Take care,

 

Anja

[trippwj]

Hello, Scott - will also be watching for ideas - my two sons each have a Phantom - one has just started and the other continues to circle the box warily!

[gulfmedic1]

I feel his pain i looked at the box for two weeks

[gulfmedic1]

ok all this is where I am, I am in the process of marking the hull to do the Keel (think thats right) and then start the fairing of the hull, but I have a couple of questions

I read the practicum and Chuck says to mark it with the red and blue lines i am having issues with this, i dont know if i have sanded the keel enough to be flat, i am looking at doing the black 1/8 stripe tape instead of the lines finding the center is killing me ( i really think i am reading to much into this)

i am using the build plans to mark my hull markings is this the right way

also when i line up the number 5 templete i see the letter "c" does this mean this mark should be in the center of the keel

 

[trippwj]

Looking pretty good so far.  Getting the keel flat and the center marked takes awhile on these solid hulls.  The "C" on the template should be at the centerline on the keel when the hull is shaped correctly.  In your last picture, you can see where the hull needs a bit more sanding to allow the template to fit correctly (note the part of the template along the side that is in contact with the hull while either side shows a gap).

 

Have you gotten the midship sections faired already?

[gulfmedic1]

trip

i havent done anysanding on the midship templet yet i was wanting to make sure i was on the right path

thanks for the input ill start that tonight and go from there

now when you talk about the hull needing more sanding are you refering to the hull templetes or the keel itself

[craigb]

Getting the keel flat is hard, and keeping it flat is hard too. Once you get it the correct width, it is easy to sand off your crisp edge as you shape the rest of the hull. 

 

I used a bit of drafting tape to mark off the keel and it worked really well.

 

the "c" should be the centerline.  

 

Also, I used gouges to help rough shape the hull then sanded to final shape. Especially around the stern with the narrow keel area, it was much better to just get aggressive with the gouges to remove wood in a hurry. In that area, the keel meets the hull at a rather acute angle whereas the blank is shaped with a really gentle curve that isn't even close. 

 

Watch your fingers! It is pretty easy to get carried away and plunge that gouge into a finger if you don't think about how you are holding the hull as you work on it!!!

 

All this is to say yes, indeed, the rough hull blank is sort of hull shaped, but getting it "correct" takes a ton of work. After building a bunch of balsa airplanes (essentially "plank on frame" method) I found working with a sold hull a total pain!

 

cheers!

[gulfmedic1]

got it thanks

[trippwj]

The hull itself. 

 

Once you have the keel flat and centerline marked, then you want to start from the midship templates and work outward.  Getting the waist (midship) fared then gives you a solid starting point working toward the bow and stern.  For the #5 template (which is the midship template), you would want to sand the hull where the template is in contact which should in turn bring the rest of the template into fairly good contact with the hull.  You will want to be checking the next templates fore and aft (#4 forward and #6 aft) as you work on shaping the hull to get the right curvature without overdoing it.

 

Sanding and shaping these solid hulls is a repetitive process - take off a little, check the fit, take off a little bit more.  When they come into true, though, it feels sooooo good!

[gulfmedic1]

ok here we go, I did some work on my build this weekend I fared the midship templete (you were right Trip just getting that part to fit was a great feeling) I did run into some issues, I think its because im not understanding somethin. I am still haveing issues with the keel. I put the false keel on the hull pins and seemed like everything looked good, but you cant fare the hull with the false keel on. when I finished the midship templet and it was correct where it showed the centerling would be is not close to where I marked. Not sure if im doing something wrong. the pics below show the templet number 5 after it has been fared also for those who are new like me the number two templete didnt fit at all so I will have to sand the keel some more for it to fit.

also how do you insert pics with comments above the pic?

Edited May 20, 2013 by gulfmedic1

[trippwj]

You are correct about not installing the false keel until after the shaping is done since all the templates are proportioned to the solid hull without the false keel.

 

Template 5 is getting very close - may need to shave a smidgeon (highly technical term meaning an amount approximately half way between a hair and a touch) right at the point where the hull takes the curve (you can just see that small gap above the turn toward the rail).  That should bring #5 into alignment with your centerline on the keel line on this side.  Of course, then you have to do the other side as well!

 

Once you get #5 set, move forward a template and aft a template and keep gradually establishing the shape.  By the time your reach #2, it should flow quite smoothly for you.  As you move from 5 to 4 you will also be working the run into frame 3, and then as you get 4 finished and move to #3 you will also be leading naturally into #2.

 

As to posting pictures with narrative, see the tutorial posted here by Danny Vadas.

 

Keep it up - you are doing great on this one!

[gulfmedic1]

awsome thanks Wayne

hey just curious, what is the difference between POB and POF. I am looking into the future and if a good sale pops up I would like to grab my next build and have it waiting. any suggestions on a good starter plaking build. I read the article in MSW and they had some suggestions but I was looking for some input.

[SkerryAmp]

Hi Scott,

 

Coming along nicely on that Phantom.  You are going to have one very nice looking vessel when all said and done.   I used the Phantom to cut my teeth on the hobby myself and now am hooked!

 

As for your POB/POF question.

 

POB is plank on bulkhead.    Those models you use an inner skeleton made up of the bulkheads which give you the shape of your ship.  The planks are laid on the bulkhead with the deck laid atop the skeleton.  The ship is built up around the skeleton with it hidden once finished.

 

POF is plank of frame. Similar in that you build a skeleton to lay the planks on, however when the planks are done where you either pop the skeleton (frame) out (but not always) or build up and around.

 

 

 

-Adam

Edited May 20, 2013 by SkerryAmp

[trippwj]

Not a problem - each of my sons have a Phantom kit on the shelf here at home, so learning about it via other builds so I can steer them in the right direction when the time comes!

 

A POB (Plank on Bulkhead) uses more or less solid bulkheads transverse to the keel to simulate frames as shown below.  There are generally not as many frame pieces as in a POF (Plank on Frame) model.

 

 

 

In a POF model, the individual frames are used.  These can be fairly simle as in the Emma C. Berry (shown here) where the frames are laser cut as a single piece per side, to very complex where the frames are built up out of pieces (futtocks) that scarph (join) together from keel to rail.

 

 

 

A POB is a great way to learn how to plank and turns out some beautiful results.  A POF is nice if you want to build it in a manner similar to the way the innards of a real ship was built and also if you want to add a great deal of internal detail and perhaps leave some of the planking off to show off the structure.

[michaelpsutton2]

Good morning Scott

 

 I have been a fan of this forum for some years although I have been up to now a painter not a model maker.

 

Tonight I will be starting my first wooden model......the phantom.

 

I look forward to you encountering and then solving all the problems ahead of me, so keep it up

[gulfmedic1]

hi MIke

glad to see someone else new like me and you are from Louisiana woo hoo

as you will see in my build log I am not very far into the build, my biggest issue todate was the keel but Im working through it and getting good progress, as mentioned here each little succes is a great feeling I will be posting more pics by the weeks end if you come across something you found that worked for you please let me know.

[Micklen32]

Hi Scott

It will be interesting following a solid body build

I can't say I have ever seen one

 

You seem to have made a fair start

Good luck

 

Mick

Edited May 29, 2013 by Micklen32

[gulfmedic1]

thanks Mick it is slow going but going i finished one templet and now im working on numb six templet pics will be coming soon

[gulfmedic1]

Well I have gotten the midship templet all done and it feels great I am now working on number six templet but I am having some issues. I notice there is a little hump by the top rail so I am working to get that then trying to get the whole templet set in.

I have put in about 5 hours total on the project, not sure if thats a lot of time or normal lol but this is where I stand any little hints are greatly appreciated.

 

[hopeful]

Hi Scott,

 

Am following your build and everything looks real good. Take your time and have fun,  By the time you are finished with the hull you will have a great appreciation of how to read drawings and translate them to the vessel. Don't lose sight of the 360 degree centerline as you continue shaping the hull.

 

Look forward to your next post.!

 

Hopeful aka David

 

"Standards set are standards met".

[gulfmedic1]

Thanks hopeful what 360 line are you referring to

[hopeful]

Hi Scott.

 

I was referring to the centerline that extends 360 degree around the vessel, e.g. keel, bow, deck, and stern. Keeping that line constant will help you end up with a hull in the correct proportion.  Suggest you measure the distance from the centerline of the deck to the bulwarks on both the starboard and port sides of the vessel to make sure they are dimensionally the same. This will help you avoid probems later.

 

Cheers,

Hopeful aka David

 

"Standards set are standards met".

Edited June 5, 2013 by hopeful

[gulfmedic1]

Well all here is another post, first off thanks to all the folks following my build more so thanks to everyone who has given me hints and suggestions they are very welcomed and appreciated. As I tell my son when you are reading pay attention to what you are reading, I need to take my own advice, I missed the part in Chucks instructions that stated to get the keel reduced before getting the hull shaped with the temples so I am kind of backwards right now, at least I caught it before I went to far.

 

I have enclosed a pic of where I am, I tried very hard to do it the way Chuck suggested with the red and blue lines but I had a lot of problems finding center, so I used a trick I saw on another post and used the 1/8th x 1/8th strip of wood as a reference and pinned it to the keel. (red circle 1) if you will notice on that same spot I think my keel is not exactly flat the strip of wood seems to be slanted also I noticed that it seem that in different spots there was more to shave off of one side in comparison to the other.

 

Also reference point #2 you will see where I came up with my centerline, I basically did some measuring down the stern post and came up with a center. I tried to use the drawn plans but can see to figure out if I was getting the right spot on the plans

 

reference mark #3 shows the curve at the top of the stern post, I assume this will be squared off when I trim down to the 1/8th size.

 

please take a look at the picture and let me know if I am on the right track.

 

 

David/Hopeful

 

thank you very much for the information about measuring and getting everything square (so to speak) unfortunately my dilemma is (and maybe I am overthinking) I don’t understand how to get these measurements since the entire body of the boat is not set to spec yet. If I measure from bow to midship, the bulwarks are not at the required with so wouldn’t that throw off the numbers, same with measuring port to starboard with the bulwarks.

 

As stated earlier thanks everyone for the help, I am truely enjoying this build

 

[hopeful]

Hey Scott,

 

The most challenging aspect of solid hull modeling in my case was establishing the centerline of the hull 360 degrees all around the hull as mentioned earlier.

 

The key, as a first step, is to get the false keel perfectly flat, not as easy as it sounds. You noticed, when adding the strip to the false keel that it did not lay flat but at an angle in some places. I suggest you carefully work to get the false keel perfectly flat by sanding and checking for flatness until you are satisfied its perfect. I use a small triangle level (3" X 3") which works well for me. Unfortunately level ain't nothing but level!  Stick with it. If you get frustrated walk away and try again later.

 

Once the false keel is level you can  pencil in the centerline. I placed a small pencil dot at the stern and another at the lowest part of the bow end and joined the dots with a fine light pencil line. By eye balling the line you can tell immediately if its right If not, give it another go. Then mark the centler line on the stern of the vessel from the end of the false keel to the top of the transom. Then give the centerline at the bow a shot. Once you are satisfied the centerline looks right from the top of the bow to the top of the stern, mark the centerline on the deck by connenting th pencel line at the top of the stern to the one at the top of the bow. At this point you will have the 360 degree centerline aroung the hull. It does not matter that the hull has not been frared  to the shape of the templates in order to establish the 360 degree centerline.  

 

....Regarding the centerline indicated by your #2 above, you should continue that line to the top of the transom as noted in para 3 of this post.

 

....Yes you are correct, the material at your #3 will be removed as you fair the hull in the stern area. I had a lot of fairing to do in that area.

 

Shaping the hull is like anything new. Once you work at it a bit the task gets easier. By the way, I find it easier for me to fair the hull on both the starboard and port sides as I moved from station to station.

 

Kep on.....

 

Cheers,

Hopeful aka DAvid

 

"Standards set are standards met".

Edited June 7, 2013 by hopeful

[Micklen32]

I used to think planking was a difficult way of making a hull

I am not so sure now 

That looks very tricky 

After planking one hull I found it came together quite easily

I am not sure I would have the courage to attempt one of those 

Keep it up 

Mick

[gulfmedic1]

David thank you very much for the info it helps a lot