More detailed drawing of anchor windlass

[Moxis]

Hello colleagues, I wonder if anybody could help me finding better and more detailed drawing or photos of a vintage wooden windlass. I am building a model of a side wheeler  from 1830 era in the scale 1/24 and have so far only an approximate drawing of her windlass, like in attached pictures. I would like to build it more accurately with more details, perhaps also a working model of it.

 

 

 

 

 

[wefalck]

Looking at the rudimentary drawing, this looks like a patent windlass that would be worked with the T-shaped handle bar. These did not exist yet in the 1830s. Off the cuff, I am not sure, when they were introduced, but probably not on a larger scale before the 1850s. Their construction involves the casting and machining of larger pieces of iron, which was not available everywere.

 

Originally, a boat of the 1830s would have been fitted with a simple windlass, operated by handle bars. A patent windlass may have been fitted later, of course. What do you know about your prototype ? Ships that did not need to anchor frequently would have retained the simple windlass for reasons of economy.

 

A frequently reproduced illustration of a patent windlass you will find in Paasch's 'From Keel to Truck', which can be downloaded on the Internet.

 

I have a collection of windlass pictures, but it would be useful first to ascertain what kind of windlass may be required, before pulling them out of my collection.

[Moxis]

Thanks a lot for your answer Wefalck. I think you are right when saying that this rudimentary drawing is not correct for a 1830 vessel. It is included into a drawing of the complete ship which was drawn around year 2000 and concentrates more to show the lines of the ship and not her details. And because there exist no original documents of the ship any more, so nobody could say if the whole drawing is correct or not. So I think a hand operated simple windlass would be more correct in this case as you suggested. So if you have any drawings or pictures about that kind of a windlass, or a link where I could find them, I would be very thankful.

[Moxis]

Sorry guys, but I am still waiting some more information about those simple windlasses. I tried to find something with google, but that wasn't very succesful. So if somebody of you had pictures or detailed drawings of them or could give me a link where to find them I would be very very thankful.

[bruce d]

Can you tell us in what country the ship was made?

In the meantime, maybe you have seen this thread?

 

[Moxis]

Thanks Bruce. The ship was made in Finland 1830.

[jud]

Often wondered why the load side of the line was led out to the load over the top of most windless's seen on models and some paintings. Man is built to lift more than his own weight if in shape, the load coming off the top of the drum requires the Seamen to pull down if on the opposite side of the load, they can only exert enough force equal to their own weight that way, and would be subject to launch over the top if  the equipment failed under load or you teammate's lever broke unexpectedly and the dog failed. Might be a logical reason why so many display the loads being off the top, I haven't been able to find any, and it bothers me, Anyone know the practical reason, could it be that the Winfless's were powered from the load side of the fixture?

 

[wefalck]

"... if in shape" is perhaps the keyword. Very few of us, including the old-time sailors, would be in such shape. The idea is not to work with your muscles - and break your back, but to use your own weight. There are alway several palls, so if one breaks that is bad, but not an immediate disaster.
 

[Roger Pellett]

Three Points

 

The most detailed information on windlasses that I know is contained in Howard Chapelle’s book American Fishing Schooners.  This book is in two parts-  the first discusses the development of the ships.  The second is an extensive “glossary” complete with sketches, drawings and period catalog cuts of construction details and fittings.  The entry about windlasses is particularly extensive.

 

The most successful of the improvements to the handspike windlass was the Armstrong Patent Windlass that Incorprated ratchets to allow up and down motion via pump handles.  I don’t know exactly when this improvement was patented but you might be able to track down the patent on the Internet.  The Schooner Alvin Clark built in the 1840’s and sunk in the 1860’s on Lake Michigan was found by modern day salvagers to be fitted with an Armstrong Patent Windlass.

 

The Armstrong Patent Windlass did not require massive iron castings.  The small lever and ratchet system could and was used with wooden barrel and whelps throughout the Nineteenth Century.

 

Roger

 

 

[wefalck]

Perhaps of interest: https://catalogs.marinersmuseum.org/media/Media/00002/Design of Winches00636165427321700621.pdf

 

[jud]

13 hours ago, wefalck said:

Perhaps of interest: https://catalogs.marinersmuseum.org/media/Media/00002/Design of Winches00636165427321700621.pdf

 

Thanks wefalck. Page 165 addresses my observation and even mentions the launching of seamen. Figure '6; F', shows that much effort and thought went into preventing that. Think that were I in charge, those windless would have been driven from the front. Suspect that gravity and strong anchor points dictated how the pawls were positioned allowing gravity to be the driving force in their operation. being gravity powered plus the need for working space had more to do with the arrangement than concern about men's back, seems there were many ruptures in those days. Wider drums allowing more sockets for Bars and men would overcome the loss of lifting power over the weight of the men on the bars. My thoughts were based more on the Figure 6 G', with a single Pawl or Dog, a broken bar would provide the speed and force for a single pawl to fail, shortening the free wheeling would help avoid that, as the paper indicates..

 

[bruce d]

7 hours ago, Moxis said:

The ship was made in Finland 1830.

Moxis, here is a windlass from 1842.

Source= Danish archives, reference G5284

Edited February 3, 2020 by bruce d

[Moxis]

Thanks a lot guys, I think now I have enough information to continue building. This is really the best forum for us ship model builders!

[wefalck]

Of course, the archive of the Danish naval yard is an on-line treasure trove of period details ...