Fair American by KenW - FINISHED - Model Shipways - 1:48 Scale

[KenW]

Hey Alistair, thanks for the advise.  I see why putting the tackle bolts wider does give you more room.  The breeching lines can easily go closer together.  I will make that change on the rest of my guns.  I will continue using 28 gauge wire until it drives me crazy.  My wire seems to break easily - are there different types of wire; some stronger than others?  I got mine from a jewelery shop as well.  My fat fingers are probably just too rough.

My blocks are 3.2mm (or 1/8 inches); I don't think I can handle the 2.5mm ones.  Your line thicknesses look to be very close to mine.

Thanks again for the help; and I am enjoying following your HMS Fly build.

[GaryKap]

Hey Ken -

There is an interesting thread in the Ship Modeling Tips Forum under "Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns Boats, etc." and the thread "Gun Tackel Coiling-perfect coils vers some variations Questions".  The information there gives us model ship builders more latitude in how much rigging we put on the gun carriages.  If I read it correctly, the outhaul tackle would not normally be stored in place on the gun carriage, but only rigged for combat (Jud and Stockholm Tar).  If that's the case, I am considering only rigging the breech lines, and I would STILL be correct.   I would put on the eyebolts for the outhaul tackle but not rig them.  Consider that most people put on the deck eyebolts for the inhaul tackle, but nobody ever rigs the inhaul tackle on their models . 

<<Gary>>

[aliluke]

Hi Ken

That is good thread that Gary pointed you to. The most common method on the photographed ships shows the ropes of the side tackles frapped (I think that is the term). Blue Ensign has done this on his Pegasus model and it gets rid of the coils. The advantage of the coils though is they allow you to adjust the tackles after placing them on the eye bolts. When adjusted the rope end can be glued to the deck and the coil used to cover that. If they are frapped I'd guess you have to get the length exactly right before placing the tackle on the hooks. While I'll be doing side tackles - I like the detail that they add - I think I will leave off the rear tackle. I might try frapping as it seems authentic and keeps the deck clear.

 

As for wire - the blackened copper wire I use is very soft - I don't know the gauge, it is very fine - but is unbreakable. Even worrying it back and forth to make it fatigue won't break it. It is called "Jeweiry Appropriation Copper Line" and is made by "Lucky & Lucky". The NZ agents are Craftrunner - www.craftrunner.co.nz.

[KenW]

I have decided to have the out haul tackles (side) but not the in haul tackles (rear).  (I think have the names correct.)

And my family really thinks the coils look neat.

So, my boat is in harbor and the admiral is due to inspect at any moment.

[GaryKap]

Ken - OK - please keep the progress reports and pictures coming.  I am looking forward to seeing how you do.  And please pass along any tips and tricks that you learn along the way.  I am assembling the gun carriages now and will put in all of the eyebolts.  I am keeping my options open...but those TINY blocks in tight spaces for the outhaul tackle really freak me out.  (note that the instruction manual calls for 3/32 inch blocks).

 

One suggestion for you.  When I was doing all of the loops of line around the belaying pins on Rattlesnake, I found that beeswax was a great help in forming coils that would stay put and look realistic.  I have never done deck coils, but you might experiment with beeswax and see if it does the trick.

 

The admiral has me spreading mulch, trimming bushes, and painting trim these days, so work in my shipyard has slowed down.

 

<<Gary>>

[KenW]

For deck coils, I use diluted white glue (around 50-50).  I apply it with a paint brush and it looks good when the glue dries.  I also found that Chuck Passaro's line is much easier to work with than the kit supplied line.

Good luck with the coils and gardening.

Edited May 4, 2014 by KenW

[wq3296]

Thanks Ken,

 

Yes it does. I thought the plan gun ports were too small, so I made mine 3/8" square. At the 1:48 scale, the openings are 18" square which seems logical in terms of trying to "fight" the guns at the size supplied. It just makes sense.

 

I use thin black steel wire to make the eye bolts and hooks for the gun rigging. You strop the block with the wire and terminate it in a hook. My wife got the wire from a craft store. I use it for other rigging components as well.

 

wq3296 

[KenW]

I will have to look for steel wire.  I don't know what mine is made of.  I only know it is 28 gauge.

Cheers.

[KenW]

I mounted four more guns using recommendations made by Russ and Alistair.  I adjusted the placement of the eyebolts for the outhaul and breech lines.  And, I threaded the blocks and attached them to the carriage before mounting the guns.  It was much easier.  However, I noticed that because I made the gun ports closer together, there was less room between the guns.  So the outhaul coils had to be wound tighter.  I’m glad that Chuck Passaro’s line is so easy to work with.  So, I have 6 guns installed and 8 more to go.  But I’m going to work on some deck furniture next as a break from gun installation, and install more guns next week.  (I notice that when I took the photo the inhaul eyebolts weren’t there; but they are now.)

[russ]

Ken:

The tackles look good. You are right. It is cramped in there, but I suspect that it was something like that, especially on these privateers. Good work.

 

Russ

[KenW]

Gary:  I have been thinking about whether the outhaul tackles (and possibly the inhaul tackles) were stored when the ship was not "cleared for action".  A ship not involved in combat was still sailing on the sea in all types of whether.  These guns must be prevented from 'moving around' at all times.  I would think these lines were needed to keep the guns in place.  I have rigged the guns "out hauled", i.e. pulled up against the water way assuming that they were therefore not able to move about.  Would this be sufficient?  I don't know.  I do know that a 'run away' gun was dangerous to both the ship and its crew.  I would like to hear what others think.

[russ]

The breeching was what prevented the gun from moving when not in action. The side tackles were there to haul the gun back to the port for firing.

 

Russ

[GaryKap]

Ken -

Thanks for the update.  Your work looks very good.  I believe Russ is exactly correct about the function of the breeching and the outhaul tackle.  My understanding is that the outhaul tackle (attached by hooks) would be removed and stowed when the gun was not in action; especially for guns on weather decks (like Fair American's).  The inhaul tackle would not normally be needed because cannon recoil would move the gun inboard.  Here is a link that described how the guns would be fired:

http://www.navyandmarine.org/ondeck/1800gundrill.htm

I am still undecided about how to rig the guns on my model.  I'm not sure that I am at your skill level.

<<Gary>>

Edited May 8, 2014 by GaryKap

[wq3296]

Greetings All,

 

First time I have ever heard this. I believe that the main function of the breeching line was to control recoil after the gun was fired. It may be that it was also used to secure the guns while under way, but I don't believe that was the main function. While underway, I expect that the guns would have been hauled in as far as practical, closer to the ship's center line. Their weight, if they were not hauled in, could cause the ship to roll more heavily. Gun weight was a serious design issue. In fact, one of the reasons many ships had so much tumble home was an attempt to get the gun weight as close to the center line as possible.  

 

I am not so sure how much of the gun firing rigging was used to secure them while under way - probable the reason why hooks are used on the tackles.

 

wq3296

[russ]

Actually, the guns were secured to the side when not in use. There are contemporary illustrations showing how they bound the gun barrel to the sides. The breeching was an important part of this.

 

See the illustration and description in Lavery, Arming and Fitting, pg 141.

 

Russ

Edited May 8, 2014 by russ

[KenW]

Thanks for the reply.  I don't have that source, but I find it interesting.  I will do some research.

I still like the look of the out haul rigging, however.

Thanks again.

[GaryKap]

Hi Ken -

If I were you, I would continue to rig the remaining guns exactly as you did the first six.  You clearly have the skill to do it, and your results thus far look great.  Your family likes the deck coils, and most important, it is YOUR ship.  The finished result can only enhance the appearance of your Fair American. 

 

The rest of us looking over your shoulder can continue to jawbone about other rigging alternatives, and learn fine points of nautical history from each other...

Keep up the good work!!!

<<Gary>>

[aliluke]

Hi Ken

Page 40 of Dafi's Victory log shows stowed cannons with the barrel elevated to be above the port and various lashings. No idea how correct it is but given his thoroughness it must be close - it is a nice page for other reasons as well...

Your rig looks great to me. I'm still going to go down the coiled route on Fly. As Gary says it is your ship!

[russ]

Alistair:

Your description is how Lavery depicts the gun lashing in Arming and Fitting.

 

Russ

[KenW]

Gary:  I am definitely going to rig the remaining 8 guns as I did the first. 

The 'defi' Victory build log seems to be a great source of photos and modeling techniques.  (Thanks Alistair).  I now have another site to use as a reference. 

[wq3296]

Greetings Gary,

 

I believe Ken requested suggestions on how he might rig his guns, and good faith suggestions were offered up. I think folks ask questions in order to learn how to do things better. I have learned much from this forum, because there are folks here who have more experience or knowledge than I. My point is that if you learn how to do things better, why wouldn't you want do them better? To me, it's a matter of building a better ship and not about doing it my way because it feels good. Let's not turn this site in an Oprah Winfrey show of "I'm alright and your alright". Our goal should be to assist each other in building better models based on hard facts. 

 

wq3296

[KenW]

Hey wq3296. 

I think one of the main things I have learned from our discussions on this and other sites is that wooden ships of the period did not have a static appearance.  Even the guns looked one way when the ship was 'cleared for action' and another way when sailing in heavy seas.  Even in port, they were rigged one way for normal daily routine and another when awaiting an inspection by an admiral.  As modelers, we research these appearances and get to choose how we want our model to be displayed.  "Its all part of the adventure."

Cheers.

[KenW]

I now have a total of 10 guns mounted.  I also added the bilge pumps and the aft gallows, although it isn’t glued.  I acquired a new spool of 28 gauge wire that is annealed and it is much stronger than the wire I was using that I got from a craft store.  It’s much easier to work with.  My method for rigging the guns is to do everything before the carriage, with barrel attached, is installed on the deck.  The holes on the bulwark are drilled and the eyebolt for the outhaul tackle is in; and the barrel attached to the carriage before installation.

I do agree that the whole process of setting up the carriage/gun is lengthy, but I try to break it up by doing 4 guns and then working on some deck furniture.  So I have 10 down and 4 to go.  Next up is the capstan – and I’m not pleased with the kit supplied one.  I’m going to have to create my own somehow.

 

[russ]

It looks great so far. The side tackles came out well. Nice work.

 

Russ

[rafine]

Very well done Ken. You are so right about the tedium of doing the guns. I also do them in manageable batches.

 

Bob

[KenW]

Thanks Russ and Bob.  And Bob: I got the idea of breaking gun installation into manageable batches from you.

[KenW]

I looked at several sites that featured capstans and their designs.  But, finally I realized that the answer was right in front of me – on the plans.  So I did my best to create a capstan that matched the one on the model’s plans.  I think it came out alright and I like the look better than the capstan that came with the kit.  (Still need to add the pawls, of course.)

[aliluke]

Hi Ken

Hmmm. Honestly, I don't think that capstan is up to the rest of your build. These are pesky things to make but they are also central to the deck fittings. I think you'll not like this later on. Sorry if I'm being too frank.

 

What height and diameter is the capstan - the cap that is - at 1/48? I have two spare kit, multiple, pieces from Fly/Pegasus that you are welcome to try as an alternative but they are 1/64. They are built in my log but I have an extra set of un-built laser cut parts for them.

[KenW]

Hey Alistair - Sorry you don't like the capstan.  It was a hard piece to construct because it is so small.  The height is @7/8 inches, which is taller than the plan's capstan at 3/4 inches.  The diameter is the same as the plan's (5/8 inches).

I like the hexagon shape; but I may want to try to reduce the height.  I'll have to take some time to think about it.

Cheers.

[russ]

Ken:

The capstan is something that will catch a lot of attention. I think what you have so far is okay, but it could use a little refinement. Maybe softening the various edges a bit etc. Will you paint it?

 

Russ