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1577 Revenge - Cannon Inhaul Tackle Inclusion?


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I'm still very new at this so I'm trying to understand why the kit doesn't show adding the cannon inhaul tackle on the main deck cannons. There is an eye added on the back of the cannon carriage where it would attach but it's left empty. Would it make things look too cluttered maybe? It would require adding an eye to the deck for each cannon and then two blocks similar to the outhaul tackle but as I imagine it, it seems like it would look good. The blocks to accomplish this aren't included but that's a minor issue, easily resolved so it boils down more to a matter to me of how it would look. I'm going to try and mock one up without drilling any holes and see if I can get a better idea but even then one will look different than 14 and there might be other issues that I haven't thought of to consider.

 

I'd think that the scale of the ship could influence this decision quite a bit, there's a lot more room at 1:64 than there is at 1:90 or 1:100.

 

Thought I'd see what the thinking is on these. Maybe it's just something you can add if you feel like it.

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In use, the inhaul was usually not in place on the guns as it got in the way while serving the gun.  This, of course, was dependent on the officer in charge.  If not fitted, they could use one of the training tackles for this or (again subject to practices) there would be one hung near the gun in case it was needed.

 

The only reason it was really needed would be if for some reason the gun didn't recoil during firing or to remove the shot and powder after action.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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I checked the Vasa-forum, and there Fred Hocker describes that on Vasa the inhaul and outhaul tackles were actually the same tackles. Inhaul actually not very often needed, so if needed, the outhaul was released from theringbolt in the side, and attached to the ri gbolt inthe deck.  

the inhaul was probably  rigged to the ringbolt on the other side of the deck.

 

Jan

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Good Evening Jonathan;

 

I would not take the presence of an eye bolt in the rear of a kit's gun carriages to be any evidence that the real Revenge would have had such a thing. Certainly the Navy did not issue train tackles as separate items until much later; and in the 17th century one of the gun-tackles was used as a train tackle when needed. If you are depicting your guns in the run-out position, then the train tackle would have already been detached anyway, as it was only used to retain the gun in its recoiled position for loading.

 

However, the whole issue of train tackles is closely linked to the method of using a ship's cannon. There has been some considerable discussion of this recently on MSW (see topic 'the early use of cannon at sea') which discusses the evidence that in the time of Revenge, the guns were fired from a fixed position, with no recoil. In these circumstances, there would certainly be absolutely no need for train tackles at all.

 

May advice would be don't fit them, and if possible, remove or don't fit the eyebolts in the rear of the carriages. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

 

Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans.

2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans.

 

Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB 

 

On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research.

 

Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. 

 

Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS

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Thanks for all the great information. I'm realizing that understanding how a specific ship rigged their cannons is a dang complex question, which could have several different answers depending on which time period you choose over the course of the ships life. It also seems that the information gets murkier as we go further back into the history of these ships and 1577 is a pretty long way back. I find that researching the practices is pretty interesting but at some point you're probably going to have to make your best educated guess and go with it also considering what will work on a model of the scale you're working with. I'm also learning that ship kits (by necessity) use standard parts for cannons and carriages that might not be completely accurate for a specific ship and it's up to the modeler to decide if they're going with that or they want to do research and construction to try and be more historically accurate. I'm really not sure where I fall in that spectrum of build the stock kit/painstaking historical accuracy right now. I've seen research on some builds that boggles my mind coupled with amazing construction techniques that I'm not sure I could match so I have to find what works for me. I'd like to make things as accurate as possible but not bog down the build for an extended period of time deciding how to rig the cannons. This applies to more than cannons, of course, but that is what initiated this investigation and awareness of the possibilities.

 

For now I think I will forego inhaul tackle on the cannons and concentrate on doing a decent job on the outhaul and stays.

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Good Evening Jonathan;

 

I would say that you have summed it all up nicely, and made the best decision in the circumstances.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans.

2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans.

 

Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB 

 

On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research.

 

Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. 

 

Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS

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