Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - FINISHED - 1:72 - medium clipper

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Rob, Did glory get these instalments ? Seems to me from Michael book. 

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich.   You forgot the main pin rail just beneath the main rail molding.   
 

Rob

Rob, you're absolutely correct and here I thought I was being so accurate....

[rwiederrich]

6 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, you're absolutely correct and here I thought I was being so accurate....

Yep.  Even the most accurate can miss hidden details.   The photos of her conversion reveals the pinrail.   I’ll be adding them soon myself. 
 

Rob

Edited August 9, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rich, Rob You are helping me a great deal thanks a milion. I already have those numbers in head by now, its very useful. I must stress one thing though. 

There are compromisses in build and those include there instalments, not in measures but in style. There Will be less than 8 miniatures  strakes but 6 little wider - butvthose are still in my scale ratio as main planks are Also wider than original. Hovewer  I definitely want to maintain aestetic and form structure with 2 6" outsided planks from hull. 

 

I always jave to Keep eye on sheer line profile  from back to bow and install on IT strakes with samé thickness so i could sand Bulwark Columns correctly...

 

When it comes to moldings decoration, 

Im not there get. I want to Keep IS as beautiful and faithful as possible doing IT with boxwood. As ornamentals are from both sides of main rail and top rail, im installing middle wood to that i Will glue molded strakes from both sides. But IT wont be soon i dont have such Wood but found a suplier in hrany so ...far from IT yet. Gopefully i Will complete rails this week and poden structural form od Boat hull  Will be pretty much  completed.this IS today progress. 

 

I run to one issue though. Forecaatle bulkheads appear little  Higher than shpuld be so i have to cut those and lower them a bit nothing tragic. 

Here IS the progress. Always thanks for looking in etc....i took magnified photo by my macro feature from book to check molding detail

 

 

 

 

 

Rob, there are two illustrations of pinrail mountings.

 Detail F: continuous carved panel (clamp?) between Main Rail Molding then Pinrail is mounted inside to Intermediate Rail. Is that the same as Sheerail?

Detail J: pinrail is mounted inside directly below Main Rail Molding. 

Did Glory have both styles or just the one? From photos it looks like she had detail F style. Your thoughts? 

[rwiederrich]

8 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, you're absolutely correct and here I thought I was being so accurate....

I believe her pinrails were beneath her main rail.   See illustration and photo
 

Rob

Edited August 9, 2021 by rwiederrich

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

22 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad…….how are you cutting the molding into the planksheer ? 
 

Rob

Rob, i found a new way im no longer cutting curvature as teplote pre - drew by pencil but i use thinmer strikea so IT bends naturally only by the eyes. ...if that what you are asking...

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Spoiler...:) 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

10 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I believe her pinrails were beneath her main rail.   See illustration and photo
 

Rob

Rob, per your confirmation of Glory's Pinrail location, submitted here for your review is my revised bulkhead cross section with appropriate Pinrail included. I also cleaned up some of the dimensional call outs to be less confusing. 

And.... wouldn't you know it, as soon as I posted this sketch, I spotted an error. So it's been re, revised to indicate more accurately that from the exterior, the Planskeer Molding is actually 8 1/2" above the deck line, since the Waterways are recessed 3 1/2" into the Deck Beams. 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by ClipperFan
Updated information

[rwiederrich]

How will you create your moldings?

 

Just stack small molding to resemble molded trim?

 

Rob

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, per your confirmation of Glory's Pinrail location, submitted here for your review is my revised bulkhead cross section with appropriate Pinrail included. I also cleaned up some of the dimensional call outs to be less confusing. 

And.... wouldn't you know it, as soon as I posted this sketch, I spotted an error. So it's been re, revised to indicate more accurately that from the exterior, the Planskeer Molding is actually 8 1/2" above the deck line, since the Waterways are recessed 3 1/2" into the Deck Beams. 

 

Amazing. 

I found another tricky hidden ornamentals detail showing that glory was really overwgelmed by ornamentation. There IS another couple of small molding from immer side od monkey rail which IS clearly visible when looked closely at photo. Its really something . 

 

Sorry for quality of drawing i Also magnified detail. 

 

I have one question my friends -  pinrail follows All line along bulwarks or IT IS just in places around masts? Sorry my english IS terrible. Thank you. 

 

 

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Spoiler...:) 

 

 

Just beautiful Vlad...wonderful.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

11 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Just beautiful Vlad...wonderful.

 

Rob

Thanks much Rob, i must say this monkey and rails part its most difficult so far.  Challenging to keep all measures true and curvature and so on... still made few small mistakes i will elaborate on later but overall its not so shabby i hope. i will add more pics tomorrow. V. 

[ClipperFan]

26 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Just beautiful Vlad...wonderful.

 

Rob

Vladimir I echo Rob's sentiment about your 'spoiler' pic. Besides beautiful which Rob already expressed so eloquently, I would add the word 'imposing' as that's the sense I get from this view.

[ClipperFan]

34 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Amazing. 

I found another tricky hidden ornamentals detail showing that glory was really overwgelmed by ornamentation. There IS another couple of small molding from immer side od monkey rail which IS clearly visible when looked closely at photo. Its really something . 

 

Sorry for quality of drawing i Also magnified detail. 

 

I have one question my friends -  pinrail follows All line along bulwarks or IT IS just in places around masts? Sorry my english IS terrible. Thank you. 

 

 

Vladimir, great observation. You are of course correct, interior moldings are even more ornate than exteriors, which is amazing. I will try to sketch them from the enlargements you've shared.

As for the Pinrail, it strikes me that it would run across the Bulwarks of the main deck, starting at the Bow just behind the end of the Quarter Deck and terminating at the beginning of the Poop Deck. When you think of it neither of those other decks have need of belaying pins as much as the main deck would. Rob can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

46 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, great observation. You are of course correct, interior moldings are even more ornate than exteriors, which is amazing. I will try to sketch them from the enlargements you've shared.

As for the Pinrail, it strikes me that it would run across the Bulwarks of the main deck, starting at the Bow just behind the end of the Quarter Deck and terminating at the beginning of the Poop Deck. When you think of it neither of those other decks have need of belaying pins as much as the main deck would. Rob can correct me if I'm wrong.

Rich this would be very great as i constructed it the way it would g oalong from q deck to poop. 

 

it seems Michael did included those little moldings in his book or drew their position  ! superb. im not sure yet how or if to include those as those would be miniatures. should I try ?   V. 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir as promised, a quick sketch of my Artist's impression from the tiny enlarged pics of Glory's bulwarks. Keep in mind, this is entirely of the monkeyrail section (or fancyrail as it's also called). I did a perspective, trying to show how these moldings appear. As usual I'm not too thrilled with the result, so I threw in a rough cross section on the left corner. How I see it is that there are definitely 5 molded sections each, totalling 10 all together. Figuring the molding around the Waterways to be similar would add another 5 for 15 in total.

 

Top of the monkeyrail:

 

(1) thin line looks to be like a bead molding at center top

(2) larger molding almost a full circle

(3) half sized of larger molding almost looks like the big one above indents to create this one

(4) shelf molding is definitely further in, as it's noticeable by cast shadow from above it.

(5) a second shelf molding, just slightly shallower than first but otherwise same depth 

 

Top of Main Rail Molding at lower end of monkeyrail bulwark:

 

(5) mirror image of shallower shelf molding from above

(4) mirror image of thicker shelf molding from above

(3) slightly larger but similar round molding to #2 above 

(2) thicker but otherwise similar round molding to #3 above

(1) slightly thicker round molding to #3 above

Of course immediately below this would be the pinrail mounted just underneath. While my most recent sketch just showed a featureless pinrail end, it's quite likely like the tables of this era, it too probably had 2 or 3 moldings to it.

 

Nobody's saying you have to model all of these but this is what I can see. Also from the scene with the Ship's Boy, it's vague but you can see stanchions which appear to be 2' apart. So I illustrated them in the perspective sketch. 

 

 

 

 

 

[rwiederrich]

These closeups on both port and starboard show the pin rail and the fact the top gallant is not open like below the main rail.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Don’t want to forget this image.  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Some quick  Updates...plenty to work on.

[ClipperFan]

13 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

These closeups on both port and starboard show the pin rail and the fact the top gallant is not open like below the main rail.  
 

Rob

Rob, based on the 3 images you shared, I owe Vlad an apology for slightly misleading him on the monkey/fancy/t'gallant rail (do you think they had enough names for the same rail? Sheesh!)

Anyhow, Vlad I hate to be wrong because it means I misdirected someone, which I never want to do. 

In my own "shallow" defense, I put too much emphasis on this scene with the ship's boy. Enhanced, there definitely appear to be ribs intersecting the t'gallant rail. However, they do not appear in any other scene which means these must be cast shadows. 

Most of what else I sketched appears to be correct, with the exception of the  (1) top bead which doesn't show up in the clear image of the t'gallant Rail top molding, so that bead must run alongside the lower edge of that upper molding. When I get a chance, I'll submit a revised illustration.

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Some quick  Updates...plenty to work on.

Vladimir beautiful work. I particularly like the bow straight on. She really reveals her imposing Clipper entrance in that one!

[rwiederrich]

40 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, based on the 3 images you shared, I owe Vlad an apology for slightly misleading him on the monkey/fancy/t'gallant rail (do you think they had enough names for the same rail? Sheesh!)

Anyhow, Vlad I hate to be wrong because it means I misdirected someone, which I never want to do. 

In my own "shallow" defense, I put too much emphasis on this scene with the ship's boy. Enhanced, there definitely appear to be ribs intersecting the t'gallant rail. However, they do not appear in any other scene which means these must be cast shadows. 

Most of what else I sketched appears to be correct, with the exception of the  (1) top bead which doesn't show up in the clear image of the t'gallant Rail top molding, so that bead must run alongside the lower edge of that upper molding. When I get a chance, I'll submit a revised illustration.

Indeed.

 

Your image of the bulwark with the boy is exaggerated by being out of focus.....look at this image and zoom in on it, it is much clearer and it definitely shows the topgallant and all its details along with the main pin rail.

 

Rob 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Indeed.

 

Your image of the bulwark with the boy is exaggerated by being out of focus.....look at this image and zoom in on it, it is much clearer and it definitely shows the topgallant and all its details along with the main pin rail.

 

Rob 

Oh yes.thanks Folks. No need to apologize Rich, besides  i didnt work on IT yet. I see clearly now that main mold Has only two ! Ornamental Lines, one below IS pinrail attached. Samé topgallant. Looks All settled now. Thanks much.V. 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir as promised, here is my, ahem revised Artist's impression of Glory's somewhat troublesome and confusing "T'gallant...Monkey...Fancy... Rail" as I can interpret it through somewhat limited images we have of this area of the ship.

I have also added the curved Iron Rail which can be seen at the start of her Poop Deck turned Stanchion Railing. Indented line of the rail itself is visible in the picture as well as the inclined angle which is also accurate. It appears the Stanchions follow the curve of the Hull below. They begin slightly chanted inwards, straighten up as they run alongside the Rear Carriage House then cant just slightly outward as they go around the curvature of the Poop itself.

Another tricky detail I missed before until Rob pointed it out: the last molding is actually the Pinrail mounted just below the upper Main Rail Molding. It doesn't project much at all, apparently just enough to allow belaying pins to fit inside.

Of course, how much, if any of this fancy work you actually want to replicate is entirely up to you. I'm just trying to provide the most accurate information to assist you in your goals to model Glory in all her wonderful details. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by ClipperFan
Grammar correction

[rwiederrich]

11 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir as promised, here is my, ahem revised Artist's impression of Glory's somewhat troublesome and confusing "T'gallant...Monkey...Fancy... Rail" as I can interpret it through somewhat limited images we have of this area of the ship.

I have also added the curved Iron Rail which can be seen at the start of her Poop Deck turned Stanchion Railing. Indented line of the rail itself is visible in the picture as well as the inclined angle which is also accurate. It appears the Stanchions follow the curve of the Hull below. They begin slightly chanted inwards, straighten up as they run alongside the Rear Carriage House then cant just slightly outward as they go around the curvature of the Poop itself.

Another tricky detail I missed before until Rob pointed it out: the last molding is actually the Pinrail mounted just below the upper Main Rail Molding. It doesn't project much at all, apparently just enough to allow belaying pins to fit inside.

Of course, how much, if any of this fancy work you actually want to replicate is entirely up to you. I'm just trying to provide the most accurate information to assist you in your goals to model Glory in all her wonderful details. 

Great drawing Rich....cept the pin rail stops at the start of the poop deck.   Great drawing.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Great drawing Rich....cept the pin rail stops at the start of the poop deck.   Great drawing.

 

Rob

Rob thanks. I took a little ill advised "artistic license" to throw in the poop deck rail. I also caught another mistake too. The iron bar doesn't just sit on the top of the t'gallant Rail, it actually bends down and goes straight in, mirroring the way it enters the poop deck Rail. When I have time I'll revise it to reflect how it is on the actual vessel.

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, as I told Rob, after I posted the other Artist's impression I recognized that the iron bar handle was shaped wrong. This illustration has the right configuration and I reworked the turned stanchion.

Rob pointed out that the pinrail doesn't continue to the Poop deck but didn't specify when it ends. Either he knows exactly or we have to dig a little further.

Edited August 11, 2021 by ClipperFan
Grammar correction

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

14 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir as promised, here is my, ahem revised Artist's impression of Glory's somewhat troublesome and confusing "T'gallant...Monkey...Fancy... Rail" as I can interpret it through somewhat limited images we have of this area of the ship.

I have also added the curved Iron Rail which can be seen at the start of her Poop Deck turned Stanchion Railing. Indented line of the rail itself is visible in the picture as well as the inclined angle which is also accurate. It appears the Stanchions follow the curve of the Hull below. They begin slightly chanted inwards, straighten up as they run alongside the Rear Carriage House then cant just slightly outward as they go around the curvature of the Poop itself.

Another tricky detail I missed before until Rob pointed it out: the last molding is actually the Pinrail mounted just below the upper Main Rail Molding. It doesn't project much at all, apparently just enough to allow belaying pins to fit inside.

Of course, how much, if any of this fancy work you actually want to replicate is entirely up to you. I'm just trying to provide the most accurate information to assist you in your goals to model Glory in all her wonderful details. 

Rich have i mentioned how much i like your artistry/ drawing? if not i do again. its really something. so clear with littel shading. if you are for it and patient enough with me im so looking forward to time when we discuss  cabins ...and there is plenty of those artistry oh .... 

steel endidng of rail is surprising to me did they copy cutty sark ?   joking it was probably fancy modern eelgant feature of late 18 century throughout continents apparently. gosh i have headache those inner moldings believe or not make 1 milimeter in my scale ! now it is impossible to make line in middle ( i bet no problem for Rob  ! but im not that good in miniatures so i will try what can i do. ) it looks astounding on paper. 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, thanks for the kind compliment. Actually I'd love to help with the details for the Rear Carriage House, Wheel House, etc. Michael Mjelde's books contain some decent references as a starting point and then we have some nice photos to go on too.

As for how to reproduce the complex Fancy Rail moldings, since they'd be so tiny, I wouldn't worry about it. 

I think keeping details to scale is more critical. Outsized moldings to try and capture those multiple features would mar your vessel more than help it. 

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, thanks for the kind compliment. Actually I'd love to help with the details for the Rear Carriage House, Wheel House, etc. Michael Mjelde's books contain some decent references as a starting point and then we have some nice photos to go on too.

As for how to reproduce the complex Fancy Rail moldings, since they'd be so tiny, I wouldn't worry about it. 

I think keeping details to scale is more critical. Outsized moldings to try and capture those multiple features would mar your vessel more than help it. 

Yes...it is always a challenge for the modeler(Namely myself) to forgo details that at a certain scale would either be impossible or impractical.

 

Nothing worse then adding a detail that is out of scale.  However..in some cases it is possible to get away with it, because you can mask the error either in quantity or by way of simple communal acceptability.  A good example is fudging with copper plate scale for your model.

 

Personally I expect to attempt to replicate the cabin moldings and box work as authentic as possible....and if not, I will employ the skill of illusion and mimicry.   My coat of arms.😄

 

Rob