Lancia Armata 1803 by mikiek - Panart - 1:16

[mikiek]

Thank you Cisco. I did some of what you described on the last stick I showed. It's full width at that bend, but narrows down considerably towards each end. It did pull out a little bit of the curve

[mikiek]

I have hit a little bit of laziness the last few days. Just didn't feel like bending and shaping sticks for the final few strakes portside. I did make 1 executive decision - it's going to have to be stealer mania for the rest of this side. Both stem & stern. I did manage to work up the gumption to get those carved out and in place. The job was far from perfect, but as I keep saying, no one will see any of this layer. It was good practice.

 

So I will end up with 5 stealers at the bow and 3 at the stern. Way more than I have ever had to use. The one lesson from this is to pay close attention to the curve mid-ship early on. Up to now my use of a stealer has always been a reactionary decision. One of those "Oh crap" moments. I think on the final layer I will be aggressive with stealers from the get-go. I'll lay 1 full width wale and the next strake will be a 1:2 stealer. That should start that mid ship curve downwards.

 

Back to the moment, I have laid all the stealer starter pieces. Just need to lay the sticks in between them. And of course, repeat on starboard. Here's a few images.

 

 

To figure out how long the stealer piece should be, lay as many scrap pieces as needed in the area.

 

 

Slide those pieces forward/backward until they will not move any further. Your stealer piece needs to extend that far.

 

 

Oops - missed the width a little bit.

 

 

Stern & stem stealer pieces in place.

 

In the last image you can see the mid ship bulging curve has been reduced somewhat. This was due to some aggressive shaping - leaving the stick full width at the curve and quickly narrowing down each end.I think a few more repetitions of this will fill in what could have been a big space after all the strakes were laid.

 

Thanks to all that are following!

 

 

 

[mikiek]

2nd layer portside is complete. It did bring out a few problems that I will have to deal with on layer 3. The most important, I had a few gaps in between strakes, especially the strakes that required a lot of shaping. I'm going to have to be much more accurate with the final layer.

 

Still need to finish the starboard side. I have been debating whether to just match the portside planking or try to do a better job which will likely mean strakes at each end don't match up. As always, nothing matters on this layer.

 

With some better strake shaping, the ugly curve at midship is smoothing out. It turns out I didn't need any sort of filler piece.

 

Here's a few shots of the final planking.

 

 

Big curve is smoothing out.

 

 

Still need 3 full sticks to fill the widest space. This is what made me go to 3 final stealers rather than 2 stealers plus one full stick.

 

 

2 sticks left to fill in.

 

 

 

 

You can see the bulge in the middle of this stick. This filled in the ugly curve in the planking.

 

 

Space for 1 more stick.

 

 

Port side finished!

 

 

 

 

As you might see, I have already begun opening up the rabbet and the sticks close to it. Hopefully allowing the 3rd layer sticks to fill in to the rabbet edge.

 

G'nite.

 

 

[mikiek]

OK - working on a couple of fronts. 2nd layer portside is done. I'm now working on finishing the starboard 2nd layer. In addition (for some bizarre reason) I have also begun the 3rd layer planking.

 

I laid the wale stick and then the couple of rear strakes (not sure of the proper term) above the wale. This turned up a new problem that will likely screw up all my plans for layer three. According to the specs - the limewood sticks used for the 2nd layer were supposed to be 6 mm in width. I found that claim to be unreasonable, as the sticks I measured were more like 5.8 - 5.9 after some lite sanding to square up the edges. The 3rd layer walnut sticks are also supposed to be 6mm, but from what I have seen they're not even close to that. I measured 6 sticks out of the bunch and the widest was 5.8mm. This is a total joke. Truly pathetic!

 

 

In the image you can see the upper edge of the (3rd layer) walnut strake way under the limewood 2nd layer. Those are supposed to be the same width. They are off by a significant amount.

 

A truly pathetic offering. I have had sticks be way off on width. Also way off on thickness which requires a ton of sanding. My 12 year old could have produced better sticks. Shame on PanArt!

 

 

[mikiek]

I'm still filling in the last starboard strakes but have done a lot of prep work for the 3rd plank layer. Mostly at the rabbet. Two things need to happen there - smooth down the edge of the 2nd layer (and 1st layer) garboard so that there is not such a severe angle into the rabbet groove. And deepen the rabbet a bit more.

 

Almost all of this work has been accomplished using my Corradi file and rasp sets. Not sure I could have completed the work without them. This is not a Corradi commercial, nor am I affiliated with them in any way. But I could not have progressed without them.

 

The shapes and edges of these files has been my savior. Some have somewhat of a knife edge (with teeth) on one edge and a flat surface on the other edge. This has allowed me to dig a deeper groove in some cases, and also shave the edges of strakes with no damage to the underlying material. Other tools are even rounded and pointed (haven't had the need for those yet).

 

The two sets are not cheap. I don't know if there are any knockoffs. I doubt if the material and workmanship can be surpassed. I still don't know what metal/alloy is used. It is definitely not your basic cheap "stainless". I have owned the tools for about 4 years, they live in my garage (high humidity and summer temps) and there is no sign of corrosion.

 

 

Two most used tools to this point. The shape and edges are the same. One is a  rasp and one is a file.

 

 

Here is the flat side of the rasp I have been using. This is very useful for rubbing up to a upper layer strake while not damaging the layer below. Keep the flat side on the lower layer.

 

 

 

 

Again, no affiliation and I don't know if there are any cheaper alternatives. What I will say is that I will probably be able to pass these tools to my grandchildren and they even beyond that.

[CiscoH]

How are you clamping your second (and third) layer of planks?  I saw a few holes from brass knurled round thingers, but most of your planks don't seem to have those holes.  If your answer is "superglue" no problems but I hadn't seen which glue you use, or maybe I missed it.  In the not to distant future I have to put the second layer of planking on my AVS build and I no longer have bulkheads to clamp to.

[mikiek]

Hi Cisco - Those knurled clamps are pin clamps. I think I got them at Micro Mark. I didn't like them at first but they have really come into their own in my last few builds. Yup, they do leave holes but with some sanding some of the dust tends to fill them. The holes are more obvious on light colored wood.

 

With that said I do use some CA for planking. Since this build is going with full strakes rather than planks, I try to glue about 1/4 to 1/3 of the stick at a time. I leave a space for a dot of CA. Then run a line of white glue for a couple of inches. The another space for a dot of CA, white glue, CA.....Then I add the CA dots and apply the stick. The CA acts like a nail to quickly hold the stick in place. This gives the white glue time to dry but allows me to keep going.

 

I usually use the clamps when I can see the area where the white glue is is not laying perfectly flat to the substrate.

 

Of course the process is different for a first or single layer. I use CA to glue sticks to frames and use white glue on the edges of the sticks.

[mikiek]

Well finally a milestone - the 2nd layer is complete! Strangely the starboard side layout did not match how I laid the port side. It was almost 1 stick wider at the stem. Given that I did this layer mostly by eye, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. Also the poor quality of the stick edges surely contributed as well.

 

It came out pretty good I guess. The hull is much sturdier now - feels like a real build now. It's starting to get heavy too.

 

I think for layer 3 I'm gonna go back to laying a stick on one side, then doing the same stick on the other side. That way if things get off, they will be consistently off.

 

I have also been working on widening and deepening the rabbet some more so the stick ends have a place to get buried.

 

 

 

 

 

So now back to the walnut sticks. As you might see on the last pic I've already laid the port garboard. That laid out nicely so I guess I'm off to a good start.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by mikiek

[mikiek]

Taking an ambitious start on layer 3. I laid a wale on both sides. On layer 2, I had to deal with a planking curve that basically went upwards a little ways back from the bow. You can see some of that in previous posts. This ended up with a lot of bending which IMO never works out all that well.

 

For layer 3, I decided to aggressively reverse that pattern. After the wale I immediately added a 1:2 stealer to start to bring that same curve downwards. The next few sticks will be individual, but given the number of stealers required for layer 2, I will be watching closely. It will probably require more stealers and those are much easier applied in the wide area directly below the wale. On layer 2 I think I waited too long. The stealers were added where the hull shape had lots of changes - down around in the deadwood.

 

I have been bitching about the wood for this kit and I have to say it is only getting worse. The sticks for layer 3 are pathetic. Uneven trimming on the edges, extremely poor thickness dimensions and the overall quality (or lack of). When trying to cut or sand an edge a little off angle the sticks feather and fray to a ridiculous degree. I try to sand away some feathering and that only brings on more. The walnut sticks are garbage.

 

Here's some images of where I am

1/2 of the first stealer - You can already see that the plank curve is working downwards rather than upwards like in the 2nd layer.

 

 

As I mentioned above, each strake is being cut and shaped and the same strake on the opposite side is being duplicated. So far this has kept both sides of the boat in sync.

Cisco - this is actually the proper way to use the pin clamps. You stab the pin in the substrate, and then use the edge of the knurly part to actually hold something down. This leaves no holes in the final layer. This works most of the time but there will be occasions where where you have to stab a pin in the final layer.

 

The plank edge obviously still needs some shaping. But you can already see how we are initiating a curve downwards. This truly helps the overall layout of the strakes. That upwards bend of the curve on layer 2 really gave me a lot of grief,

 

 

 

 

Looking forward, not sure what this piece is called but it is obviously not sitting square inside the hull. Major gaps on each side. Not sure if this is by design, or due to the inability to glue hull strakes to a frame which ends up compromising the hull shape. Richard, if you are still following, let me know if you experienced the same issue with your build.

 

Have also been doing a ton of sanding on the inner planking. I thought a lot of it would be covered up, but you can see by the above pic that almost the entire inside hull will be visible. Bummer!

[Sparky21]

Could that piece be reversed?  Looks like the longer flat side might be placed towards the bow.  I'm probably way off on suggesting this.   

[mikiek]

Sparky - interesting thought. I do sometimes get so intense on one way of thinking that I overlook the obvious. After reading your suggestion I immediately jumped up and out to the shop to check it out. Sadly, flipping that deck base just made things worse.

 

But I do appreciate your slap in the face to sometimes rethink things.

[mikiek]

Still working on plank layer 3. Unlike the other layers, I am working strake by strake. Shaping a stick for starboard and then duplicating the same shape for a port stick. Honestly, while this is the suggested method for planking I am seeing some holes in this theory. Mainly, it is based on the fact that both hull sides are shaped identically. Obviously to me, at least in this build, that is not the case. I suspect that this is the same situation in a lot of builds. I have had to do additional shaping after a strake is glued, which means that the strake on one side probably doesn't match the strake on the other side.

 

I have laid about 3 strakes down from the wale. Since then I have been working up from the garboard and have a total of 4 strakes up from the keel rabbet. As was my intention, there is a very mellow downward curve in the strakes below the wale. This will come into play much more as the lower and upper strakes get closer to each other.

 

As with the 2nd layer, so far I have been totally eyeballing the strakes. No bands or dividers so far. I suspect that when I get down to a 2" - 2 1//2" space between the upper strakes and the lower, I will need to inject a single band and use the dividers to help shape the last few sticks.

 

I still gotta gripe about the wood in this kit. It is really sad. I find it almost impossible to sand. It starts out feathered and frayed after cutting. But even sanding with 1000 grit sponge it just keeps splintering. The surface of the wood is totally destroyed, tons of flakes and feathers. I'm tempted to shoot a pic with a macro lense close up to show just how poor the wood is.

 

 

Here you can see some of the splintering. This was after using 1000 grit sanding sponge.

 

More splintering. Not just at the strake edge, but look closely at the 3 sticks. This was after using a 1500 grit sanding sponge.

 

Nice downward curve on the upper strakes.

 

 

 

Here you can see the pathetic irregular thickness of the plank sticks.

 

I have a bunch of walnut stock which I could use and probably eliminate a lot of these problems. I am resisting using that stock because I still have this gut feeling that I may at some point just trash this entire build. Don't want to waste good wood for this project.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by mikiek

[mikiek]

While still futzing with the 3rd plank layer, I have realized that I can start working on the interior components. There are 4 "deck" levels. Each has a base layer cut from a laser template. Every base will be be planked. Here is the biggest base.

 

 

There is one serious problem that is coming up and I am not sure how to handle it. As I have mentioned from the start of this thread, most of the frames are breakaway, cut to allow for the top 2/3 of the frame to be broken off. You can see this in the above pic. You can also see that in the few remaining full frames (the 1st and the last) there is some extension at the sides.

 

 

Well now surprise, all of the circled material needs to be removed. The problem is that it is all plywood. Thick stuff. It will not be removed with a knife. Given the position, it will also not be removed with some sort of handsaw. So WTF? The only thing I can think of is to break out the Foredom flex shaft and grind it all away.

 

If anyone has a better idea please let me know.

 

I guess I need to rag on Panart a bit more. According to plans, those frame extensions looked like they were going to be permanent and like a fool I glued plank strakes to them. Now not only do the extensions have to go, but all the strakes have to be unattached from them. Another pitiful design decision.

 

I will already start to warn anyone - Panart kits are extremely difficult to work with. Materials are sub par, instructions/plans are really bad - they often contradict each other. If you are a beginner, I would look elsewhere for something to build.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by mikiek

[mikiek]

As stated above I had to grind out all the extensions. The planking at all those points, broke off easier than I had anticipated. It took a little sanding to remove all the crusty glue remains from the inner hull.

 

 

As I have begun to apply the various deck base pieces a few pics will show how pathetic the fit actually is. Some I was able to sand down to make a reasonable fit. Others just simply suck.

 

 

Most likely the deck planking will end up covering the big gaps.

 

And then there are some frame pieces that have some sort of chunk taken out of them and then a separate piece that fills in the same chunk. This has happened on multiple occasions.

 

I mean really WHY? How stupid can it get?

 

My laziness has me working on the hull interior rather than finishing the 3rd hull layer. I discovered one big screw up this evening. While  working on the interior I have been using wood from the same bundle that was supposed to be used for the final planking. WRONG!  I kinda happened to remember that there was another bundle of sticks still remaining in the kit box. Some of those sticks are supposed to be used for all the decking planks. So I have been using the wrong sticks to plank all the decks. Hopefully I will have enough plank sticks to finish the hull.

 

The fun never ends.....

 

Apparently the editor has gone bonkers again. Not sure why the above pic has been embedded again. I can't delete it.

Edited April 27, 2022 by mikiek

[mikiek]

Still more going on with the hull interior. I will have to get back to the exterior very soon (see below). It has been fun working on the innards of the boat. A nice break from finishing the 3rd layer planking. A few pics of what has been done:

 

 

 

The biggest problem I see is that the instructions (if you can call them that) specify limewood for a lot of the trim. This wood is hideously ugly and when laid on top of some shredded walnut looks absolutely pathetic. And somewhere down the line I expect the instructions to say "just paint all the limewood". I say this because the limewood pieces look totally hideous. They are going to have to be colored somehow and it would be way easier to paint them before they are glued to the build.

 

I did finish off planking the transom and was about to trim up the edges when I realized that I can't do that until I complete the 3rd planking.

 

 

 

So, sadly I will need to get back to the 3rd planking. Yup, I'm a procrastinator for sure, but the time has come. 😒

 

 

[mikiek]

He-he - so much for "back to planking".  I have added the ribs to the inner hull. The drawing was kinda confusing. One drawing showed the hull with no ribs, the next showed the hull with ribs in place. No mention of size or spacing. I finally noticed a side drawing and determined I needed 2x3mm sticks. There is a full scale drawing that showed the ribs on 19mm centers. Rightly or wrongly that's what I went with.

 

 

 

 

The rib size looks a little wimpy IMO but it is what it is. I thought I would have to physically bend a few of them to fit but it turned out that brute force and gluing with CA worked OK.

 

I'm thinking pretty soon I need to stain & finish the inner hull. There's a whole bunch of stuff that will be going on the decks and inner hull. Trying to color them later will be problematic. I suspect I will go with my old stand in - Natural stain with a satin finish. It will be interesting to see if that revives the walnut or not. It looks pretty shabby at this point.

 

[mikiek]

Went ahead and colored the inner hull. Probably the first time of many. I used Minwax PreStain and then Minwax Natural stain. This stain doesn't have any color but it adds a "wet" look to the wood. I use it probably more than any other. I think it did help to revitalize the dead looking walnut.

 

If I decide that's what I want, I will lay down a couple coats of matte varnish.

 

 

 

I have also started work on the cap rails. Instructions call for making several trapezoidal pieces up at the bow in order to get the correct bend. I was tempted to try to just bend an entire stick, but the sticks are 3.5x10mm and they are not interested in edge bending 😒

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by mikiek

[mikiek]

Been working on the cap rails. As mentioned above and according to the instructions, the bow end of the rails requires 4-5 trapezoidal pieces shaped in an effort to lay on top of the bow curvature. Sadly, there is no pattern provided so it's totally up to the builder to figure out the shape of each piece. In other words a WAG. I guess I got lucky - it came out reasonably well.

 

 

 

 

 

The ugly part is the curve between the upper and lower rail.

 

 

The kit provides a "wood ring" that you are supposed to cut out a chunk and lay it on the curved edge.

 

 

Unfortunately there was no direction at all on how to shape that curve. And the shape I ended up with doesn't come close to matching the ring. Will either require a buttload of sanding or I will dump the ring and try to bend something to fit the curve.

[mikiek]

As usual I am bypassing all the difficult decisions that are in my face. The instructions call it something different, but I call it the waterways as would any credible plans. There is a stick that needs to wrap around the ribs from the inside.

 

 

Once this stick is in place, there is a gap between the stick and the inner hull.

 

The plans call for placing a shaped piece of stick placed in between each rib. YEAH RIGHT. Are you freaking kidding me? There is no way to even tell what that shape would be. This is a total joke.

 

Instead, I have cut 2x3mm sticks into pieces that fit between the ribs and then just glued them into place using white glue.

 

 

After 10-15 minutes (before the white glue dries) I just go in with a sharp knife blade and shear off the excess. A little sanding helps to smooth out the surface.

 

I just can't keep from thrashing the wood in this kit. Total garbage. As you see in the pics below, the more I sand the worse it gets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I thought sanding was supposed to remove shreds and splinters. Not bring on more. 😒

[mikiek]

Checking the date from the last post - I have been lazy. I walk by the build almost every day and just keep walking. I want to begin some of the fun stuff - starting with the deck. But I know if I don't finish planking, it may never get done. Honestly the last layer (the 3rd) looks pretty decent.

 

I did a few sticks from top down, then the garboard and a few sticks bottom up. The one thing I have stuck to on this layer is to shape a stick for one side then make a matching stick for the opposing side. Then glue them both. This has helped to keep both sides fairly even, particularly at the bow & stern. I know that is always the recommended approach, but I rarely do it.

 

Interestingly, I have done this whole layer by eye. No bands, no plank markings, no dividers. Frankly I think it has come out the best of the 3 layers. I have added a few stealers, again just when my gut told me to do so. The area that is left to plank is pretty even from bow to stern. Sticks at the bow will need some tapering, but that is normal.

 

Here's a few pix:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for reading!

 

[Richard44]

Keep at it Mike, you're nearly at the fun stuff. 😁

[mikiek]

Thanks Richard. I have been cheating a little bit - already working on some of the interior. That has been one of the things I like about this kit. There's a lot of other tasks that I can do while planking.

[Sluicemaster]

Hello mikiek;  Boy oh boy, planking this model is enough to drive one to drink, eh!?  Your frustrations are completely understandable, and I felt the same on many days doing my launch.  I like how you did the planking at the stern.  I pretty much followed my 25 year old instructions, and will end up laying planks flat on the keel as shown.  I didn't do a rabbet as you did because I couldn't figure a good way to do it, especially for three plank layers, on the cheap plywood supplied.  I beveled the ends of my planks, hoping they would fit flush.  You are at a point I hope to be by the end of summer, but I have already noticed some of the issues that will be encountered.  

[RLindsey]

Rank beginner here, not yet started my first model, but I thank you for posting this build.  I am sure the time will come when I am faced with some of the same issues and I will be coming back here for inspiration.  Looking good so far!

 

How do you like the foam cradle for supporting the model while you work?  Is it a worthwhile purchase?

Edited July 8, 2022 by RLindsey

[mikiek]

The foam is absolutely worth it. No stress or strain on the keel as some other options incur. It allows for easy angling, even to radical degrees when you need to plank either the wales or garboard. If your build has a painted hull the foam reduces scratching. I have also found it in a league of it's own if you ever have to transport your build. Worth every penny.

[Jonas]

Wow! Can't believe I found this! I am currently building the same kit, and it is my very first build 😄just as you say; its a bit frustrating. Some, or a lot of parts fit very poorly, some instructions a plain wrong or just vague. I found the planking instructions to be okey though. Did you check the last pages of the manual? Your planking looks a lot better than mine though! But glad to see that it's not just me stuggling a bit with this kit!

[Jonas]

I wanted to share my progress. You can see that I fashioned a different 6a than you did, and that the rest of the "a" parts, I had to cut in order to make them fit after my not-so-perfect planking. The "floor" parts fit so badly, and I am still working on those.

[mikiek]

Rats Jonas - I didn't realize there was a hatch in the stern deck. That'll be fun trying to cut out now.

[Richard44]

6 hours ago, mikiek said:

Rats Jonas - I didn't realize there was a hatch in the stern deck. That'll be fun trying to cut out now.

Hi Mike,

 

If I were you, I wouldn't attempt to cut out that hatch. Simply lay some thin strips on top of the deck (ie. double plank it) and add the coaming around them.

 

Keep at it Jonas, it does make up into a nice looking model if you survive the instructions etc. 

 

I remember just how much frustration I had at times when building that kit. Terrible instructions!

 

Cheers

[mikiek]

Yeah Richard - I kinda had that idea a little later. No one but you and me will know the difference.