Flying Fish by Jared - Model Shipways - 1:96

[gak1965]

Looking good Jared!

 

I didn't bother with clove hitches, too much bulk, too hard to get the line to hang right. Simple overhand knot, using a piece of paper with the pattern behind the lines.

 

Regards,

George 

[Jared]

Thanks George.  I fully agree with your ratline suggestion.  

[Jared]

All lower shrouds have now been lashed to the deadeye and sheer boards. Getting the deadeyes to all line up was quite tricky and required more than one try for several of them. 

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Jared said:

All lower shrouds have now been lashed to the deadeye and sheer boards. Getting the deadeyes to all line up was quite tricky and required more than one try for several of them. 

@Jared

your shrouds do indeed look quite uniform and well spaced.

[Rick310]

Looking good Jared!!

Rick

[B-Ram]

Hello Jared,

 

Your Flying Fish is looking great.

 

Bill

[Jared]

I have a question for the group.  The Flying Fish plans show the rope diameters for the shrouds and ratlines on the foremast as being 10.5 and 1.5 inches, respectively.  That works out to be 0.035" and 0.004" at scale.

 

I started the ratlines using very thin black thread line but don't like how it is looking (see photo).  Thevthread is very difficult to work with and I think it looks too flimsy on the model.  It is also near impossible to get it to appear linear.  I have had to stiffen it with white glue to reduce the ratline waviness. 

 

The topmost ratline in the attached photo was made with a much thicker/stiffer black sewing thread.  It is only fitted temporarily on the ratlines so the knots are not overly tight or small.  It is easier to work with and I think it will look better, but not to scale.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

 

Thanks

[Rick310]

Jared,  For what it’s worth, I like smaller line better even though it’s more difficult to work with.  I’ve always heard it said that it is better to be too small than to be too large.

Good luck, FF is coming along really well!

Rick

[Richvee]

Hi Jared. I've been following along silently. Great worK! I agree with Rick. The thinner line looks better. At this scale, I don't think you would lose much detail if you threaded the ratlines rather than tied them off. That might make working with the thinner thread easier. The naked eye can barely pick out the hitches anyway. 

[gak1965]

I'm also for the thinner thread. Also, FWIW, the line dimensions printed on the plans are circumference, not diameter. You may have already corrected for that, if so, my bad. I used boring, black, mercerized cotton sewing thread for my ratlines. Visible enough, but not too visible, and I found that it hung and tied better than the (I think polyester) line supplied by the kit.

 

Regards,

George

[Jared]

On 8/18/2024 at 7:58 PM, Richvee said:

Hi Jared. I've been following along silently. Great worK! I agree with Rick. The thinner line looks better. At this scale, I don't think you would lose much detail if you threaded the ratlines rather than tied them off. That might make working with the thinner thread easier. The naked eye can barely pick out the hitches anyway. 

Thank you.   What do you mean by "threaded the ratlines rather than tied them off"?

 

On 8/18/2024 at 10:37 PM, gak1965 said:

I'm also for the thinner thread. Also, FWIW, the line dimensions printed on the plans are circumference, not diameter. You may have already corrected for that, if so, my bad. I used boring, black, mercerized cotton sewing thread for my ratlines. Visible enough, but not too visible, and I found that it hung and tied better than the (I think polyester) line supplied by the kit.

 

Regards,

 

Thanks George.  For the ratlines I was using black polyester thread from my wife's sewing basket.  I will get some cotton thread.

[Richvee]

On 8/20/2024 at 10:56 AM, Jared said:

 What do you mean by "threaded the ratlines rather than tied them off"?

Use a needle. Obviously  thinner than the shrouds, “sew” the ratlines through the shroud. You can cut each rung long, adjust the curve and tension, then when satisfied dab some diluted white glue to hold the ratline to the shroud. Let it dry, shave off the excess on the outsides of the shrouds. 

[ClipperFan]

32 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Use a needle. Obviously  thinner than the shrouds, “sew” the ratlines through the shroud. You can cut each rung long, adjust the curve and tension, then when satisfied dab some diluted white glue to hold the ratline to the shroud. Let it dry, shave off the excess on the outsides of the shrouds. 

@Richvee

great advice! I've never heard of that approach before. You learn something new every day.

[Richvee]

33 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

@Richvee

great advice! I've never heard of that approach before. You learn something new every day.

Glad I could help. 

[Jared]

Thanks.  That is an interesting approach.  It would certainly simplify aligning the connecting rungs.  

 

When I receive some mercerized cotton thread I ordered I will experiment with this technique and George' and see which works best for me and looks best.  Having limited vision in one eye and consequental loss of 3d sense, elimination of knot tying is certainly an attraction!

 

Thanks for everyone's helpful suggestions and thoughts.  Jared

[Jared]

I started working again on my ratlines a couple of days ago, after a week of unscheduled rest due to an unplanned bout if covid.  Fortunately it was mild.  I am using the mercerized cotton thread that was recommended by George (much nicer to work with than the thread I had been using, all of which I removed from my model.  I experimented with the sewing needle method Rich recommended and really like it.  I will update my progress once I have completed one of the lower masts.

 

My question for the group is how high up the shrouds on the lower mast should the ratlines go?  The kit instructions are not overly clear.   It looks like they only go up as far as the lower end of the futtock shrouds, and not behind the futtock shrouds.  Instead it looks like attach to the futtock shrouds and continue up to the top.  Have I got this right?  I have quite a few books on rigging and model ship building and not one shows a clear drawing or photo.  I also looked at some of the build log photos of others but am still a bit unclear on this.

 

Thanks for your help as always. 

 

[ClipperFan]

51 minutes ago, Jared said:

I started working again on my ratlines a couple of days ago, after a week of unscheduled rest due to an unplanned bout if covid.  Fortunately it was mild.  I am using the mercerized cotton thread that was recommended by George (much nicer to work with than the thread I had been using, all of which I removed from my model.  I experimented with the sewing needle method Rich recommended and really like it.  I will update my progress once I have completed one of the lower masts.

 

My question for the group is how high up the shrouds on the lower mast should the ratlines go?  The kit instructions are not overly clear.   It looks like they only go up as far as the lower end of the futtock shrouds, and not behind the futtock shrouds.  Instead it looks like attach to the futtock shrouds and continue up to the top.  Have I got this right?  I have quite a few books on rigging and model ship building and not one shows a clear drawing or photo.  I also looked at some of the build log photos of others but am still a bit unclear on this.

 

Thanks for your help as always. 

 

@Jared

Here's an excellent view of one of the shroud lines on the 1843 Whaler Charles W. Morgan. In her case the ratlines end at the junction of the futtock shrouds. I hope this image answers your question.

[Jared]

Thank you.  It makes sense.  It would be a rather tight squeeze I would think to climb up behind the futtock shrouds!

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Jared said:

Thank you.  It makes sense.  It would be a rather tight squeeze I would think to climb up behind the futtock shrouds!

@Jared

You're welcome. Honestly, I find the idea of hanging out upside down on them futtocks 40 feet in the air an intimidating thought. I'd probably squeeze my a-- into the shrouds through the lubber's hole until I got my sea legs.

[Jared]

My preference would be to captain the ship so I wouldn't ever have to do any climbing 🤣

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Jared said:

My preference would be to captain the ship so I wouldn't ever have to do any climbing 🤣

@Jared

while we're on fantasies, my preference would be to own the shipping firm. Then I'd just sit back and collect fat checks 😉

[gak1965]

Looks like it might vary. Both Anatomy of the Ship for USS Constitution, and if you look here: https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2023/08/07/main-mast-work-continues/, it seems like Connie has ratlines all the way to the top. Similarly, here is Niagara (from FLIKR)

 

That kind of makes sense since the lubber's hole is pretty useless if you can't reach it with the ratlines. I wouldn't lose any sleep over them though - they will be next to invisible.

 

Regards,

George

 

 

Edited August 29 by gak1965

[ClipperFan]

45 minutes ago, gak1965 said:

Looks like it might vary. Both Anatomy of the Ship for USS Constitution, and if you look here: https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2023/08/07/main-mast-work-continues/, it seems like Connie has ratlines all the way to the top. Similarly, here is Niagara (from FLIKR)

 

That kind of makes sense since the lubber's hole is pretty useless if you can't reach it with the ratlines. I wouldn't lose any sleep over them though - they will be next to invisible.

 

Regards,

George

 

 

@gak1965

it probably has to do with the size of the vessel involved or possibly naval ship standard vs civilian ones. Charles W. Morgan isn't small but she's dwarfed by "Old Ironsides." I have no idea of size comparison with USS Niagara though. It's probably a matter of whether the continuing ratlines were needed to gain the lubber's hole. In the case of the one example I shared it looks like the distance to get to that opening is short enough. Personally, since clippers had such lofty masts, I'd err on the side of caution and take ratlines to the top.

[Jared]

Thanks George and ClipperFan.   I have just completed the ratlines on the lower forecast stbd. side.   I decided to not worry about putting ratlines or not behind the futtock shrouds.  The shrouds are all so close together there I don't think you would ever see them if they had been mounted.

 

The finished assembly with 2 of the intermediate stages are shown in the 3 attached photos.  I printed a pattern with 10.5 line spacing units in Excel and clamped different sized pieces to the back of the shrouds.  Using the pattern it was easy to sew my way through the shrouds, maintaining a straight line.  As described in George's blog (pg. 15 I think), every 6th ratline extended across all 6 shrouds, the others only crossed shrouds 2-6 (counting from fore to aft).

 

I found it best to sew all the threads in place and not  adjusting them for tightness until all we're in place.  I used dilute white glue with a drop of detergent to fix all the ratlines in place.  I then cut off the excess thread at the ends of each ratline.

 

For the ratlines on the metal futtock shrouds I simple glued the thread across the shrouds.  When dried in place I tied a small knot at each end then cut off the excess thread.

 

 

Edited August 29 by Jared

[Rick310]

Nice job Jared, looking really good!

Rick

[gak1965]

Looking good!

[Jared]

Have now completed the ratlines on lower main and mizzen masts on the starboard side.  Really like the sewing method. 

[ClipperFan]

@Jared

Your ratlines look beautiful and authentic. That sewing method is brilliant. Afterwards, no one will know how these impressive shrouds were created.

[Jared]

Thank you.  

[Richvee]

Ratlines look great. Glad you liked the sewing method. It ends up with a clean look, and so easy to adjust before gluing and cutting. I came across this technique back when I was a kid building the 1/8" scale Model Shipways Benjamin W Latham in the instruction book.  Eric Ronnberg Jr  knows a thing or two about modeling. 🙂