Cutty Sark by bcochran - Revell - 1/96 - PLASTIC

[bcochran]

7 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

I’ll second that. It also had me looking again at the museum model you posted; I too want a fairly busy looking deck by the end of the process but haven’t yet given much thought to how I’ll achieve this. I’m not too keen on making loads of figurines but they do give the model some life. About as far as I’ve got is to have some random coils of rope and other ‘stuff’ dotted around. What are your own plans? In that vein, I’ve wondered and wondered where the fourth, missing from the kit, ships boat would have gone. On the quarterdeck cabin roof perhaps?

I might use the kit figures on the deck and rigging. I don't know about the 4th boat. Longridge talks about two lifeboats over the aft deck house.  Woodget had a boat he would use when he photographed the Cutty Sark.  It had a sail, I think.  I don't remember where I read about it.

[shipman]

Refer back to your post #38....small boat on deckhouse, Sydney 1891.

 

I have seen drawings/plans/models where there were 2 large boats, with a smaller one between on the aft deckhouse.

A similar small boat on the fore deckhouse.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to adopt such a scheme. Never come across mention of a 5th boat.

 

As far as deck clutter; unless she was loading/unloading cargo, the decks would need to be free to allow working of the ship.

 

It's worth looking up Alan Villiers photographs on wiki...obviously a later period, but not dissimilar ships.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Re' the deadeyes, I'm planning to reeve these off the ship, using some sort of jig, and then dropping the wires (that we've discussed previously) of the lower deadeyes into their respective holes in the pinrail. Is that not going to work?

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Re' the deadeyes, I'm planning to reeve these off the ship, using some sort of jig, and then dropping the wires (that we've discussed previously) of the lower deadeyes into their respective holes in the pinrail. Is that not going to work?

That is my plan also.  I have seen some ship pictures and plans where one boat is placed on top of another.  The Bounty pictures and plans sometimes show a cutter above the lifeboat.

 

I would think a fourth boat on the Cutty Sark may be a cutter and be place upside down on a lifeboat, or right side up.  Though I don't think it would be on a boat hanging from davits. Possibly placed on the boat on the forward deck house, both boats right side up, the cutter being the smaller.

 

Here is a picture of a cutter. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

By the way, I did a little experiment; drilled a small hole in the bottom of a deadeye and superglued in a piece of thin brass rod. It's rock solid, so having the rod/wires glued into a similar hole in the waterways at the other end should mean there's no strain at all on the pinrails.

 

I don't know how I keep missing things in the Campbell plans, the fourth boat (a little jolly boat) is upside down inbetween the two lifeboats. I may have a go at scratch building this presently.

 

 

[bcochran]

Just for fun, a Revell HMAV Bounty I have been working on for years. Last time I was putting on standing rigging.  I want to build the Airfix 1/87 Bounty.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think the revell Beagle is a reworking of this, isn't it. 

[shipman]

Indeed, the Beagle is a re-hash of the Revell Bounty.

 

The 1:87 Airfix Bounty is a much better kit, the scale providing scope to get all the details correct.

The AOS book shows how accurate that kit is (at least compared to the drawings in the book).

[bcochran]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Indeed, the Beagle is a re-hash of the Revell Bounty.

 

The 1:87 Airfix Bounty is a much better kit, the scale providing scope to get all the details correct.

The AOS book shows how accurate that kit is (at least compared to the drawings in the book).

AOS book?  Something about the Airfix kit does not look right to me. The deck at the bow is below the top of the bow bulwark where Revell has it even.

 

J Tilly at Fine Scale Modeler said, "Airfix made some excellent sailing ship kits (the Wasa is one of my favorites), but the Bounty isn't one of them.  The designers apparently ignored virtually all of the excellent available source material about this ship, and introduced some mistakes that are downright silly. "

Edited May 5, 2022 by bcochran

[shipman]

Your #154 looks to be the same book but an edition I'm not familiar with.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353978898254?hash=item526ac9574e:g:DewAAOSw45FiQJ-needs c

This book turns up regularly on ebay, often much cheaper. I got one recently for under a tenner.

 

As with all kits, there's something needing a bit of fettling. That deck issue isn't the end of the world and not hard to put right.

[shipman]

#154 is the German language version.

[bcochran]

3 hours ago, shipman said:

Your #154 looks to be the same book but an edition I'm not familiar with.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353978898254?hash=item526ac9574e:g:DewAAOSw45FiQJ-needs c

This book turns up regularly on ebay, often much cheaper. I got one recently for under a tenner.

 

As with all kits, there's something needing a bit of fettling. That deck issue isn't the end of the world and not hard to put right.

Here is a free pdf download.  https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=A6841197E6064168&id=a6841197e6064168!80203&parId=a6841197e6064168!80201&o=OneUp

 

I need to get back to the Cutty Sark it's been days 

Edited May 6, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

Here is where we stand today in the kitchen, almost a week off after having screwed up the stern etching again. I hope to get going again today. Not too much left on the main ship body.  Need to start the masts and spars and begin rigging.

 

I was really not into it after the etching boo boo, Hismodel is sending a free replacement.  I spent a lot of time reading "The Log of the Cutty Sark" to keep my interest up.

 

Playing around with the edit function on my i-phone gives the picture a more dramatic effect.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

15 hours ago, shipman said:

#154 is the German language version.

I copied that image online to show stacked boats

[shipman]

Stacked boats on the Bounty for sure.

I'd be surprised if boats on the Cutty were stacked though.

 

Interesting techniques for stacking boats. The height of the top boat (in that image) suggests it's resting on the thwarts, which was done.

 

To keep the center of gravity low, the thwarts of the lower boat would be removed so the top one 'nested' snugly; 'nesting' I believe is the correct term.

[bcochran]

I was wondering if the Revell sail plan was before or after the masts and yards were cut down. 

 

Here is what it says in  "Log of the Cutty Sark", "Thus it came about that in March 1880, 9 feet 6 ins were cut off her lower masts, 7 feet off her lower yards, and her upper yards were shortened in proportion, whilst her skysail yard disappeared altogether."

 

The Revell sail plan has a skysail yard, so I think it represents the ship before March 1880, before the cut down.  That would mean another inaccuracy for my model because I think the white panels on the deck houses and poop cabin sides were there in the late 1880's after the cut down. I am not sure when they were painted, but the reason was to reduce the labor needed to keep all the teak varnished and reduce the crew size.  The cut down was because the tea clipper days were over due to steam ships getting the tea cargos. The steam ships went through the Suez Canal cutting the number of days for the return trip by half of that of the clippers going around Africa. Thus, there being a lower profit and need to cut labor costs as a wool clipper and a reduction in sail area.   The crew size was cut from 30 sum to 28 in 1880. 

 

I don't feel like changing the Revell sail plan, so I will live with the inaccuracy. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by bcochran

[Kevin-the-lubber]

3 hours ago, bcochran said:

Here is where we stand

That looks good. The white panelling gives it a bit more shape than the all teak scheme. I've asked over on my log but hope you dont mind me asking here too - what size rope should be used for threading the lower deadeyes?

[bcochran]

42 minutes ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That looks good. The white panelling gives it a bit more shape than the all teak scheme. I've asked over on my log but hope you dont mind me asking here too - what size rope should be used for threading the lower deadeyes?

I will research that. I have the answer somewhere in my books.  Give me a bit of time.  I also bought the Amati ropes from Hismodel. I haven't got them yet. I have somewhere the rope sizes for the Cutty Sark, and we need to convert that to the Amati threads.

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That looks good. The white panelling gives it a bit more shape than the all teak scheme. I've asked over on my log but hope you dont mind me asking here too - what size rope should be used for threading the lower deadeyes?

I replied on your log, but here it is again.

 

This is from Hackney's book on the Airfix Cutty Sark , tpi = turns per inch. We would need to convert that size to 1/96.  Airfix kit is 1:168 14 ft to an inch.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by bcochran

[rwiederrich]

23 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

By the way, I did a little experiment; drilled a small hole in the bottom of a deadeye and superglued in a piece of thin brass rod. It's rock solid, so having the rod/wires glued into a similar hole in the waterways at the other end should mean there's no strain at all on the pinrails.

 

I don't know how I keep missing things in the Campbell plans, the fourth boat (a little jolly boat) is upside down inbetween the two lifeboats. I may have a go at scratch building this presently.

 

 

On my last two builds I directly glued the chain plate to a hole I drilled in each deadeye.  Worked fine and was very strong and secure. This trick works well if wire stropping is too hard for your application.  
 

Good job

 

Rob

[shipman]

Don't want to teach what you may already know.....

 

eg. assuming that's from Hackney: 5'' full scale rope at 1:168 would be 104 tight turns around a stick over the length of an inch.

That would be fine thread indeed.

[bcochran]

9 minutes ago, shipman said:

Don't want to teach what you may already know.....

 

eg. assuming that's from Hackney: 5'' full scale rope at 1:168 would be 104 tight turns around a stick over the length of an inch.

That would be fine thread indeed.

I would not "reeve" ? deadeyes at 1/168 scale.  That would be akin to self abuse I think.

.

[shipman]

LOL it can be done!

 

Just got confused between these two builds, pardon me. I just added a comment to Kevin's log which should have been for yours (though most of my 'interuptions' may apply to both your logs) .... It's my way of showing some appreciation for what you are collectively doing.

 

As for scaling up from 1:168 to 1:96, unless you're going to get too technical, simply doubling the dimensions you're talking about (to the eye on a completed model) would look just fine.

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That looks good. The white panelling gives it a bit more shape than the all teak scheme. I've asked over on my log but hope you dont mind me asking here too - what size rope should be used for threading the lower deadeyes?

I like the way your poop cabin looks.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks again, and now I also understand the tpi. Gosh, I don’t think I’m going to bother getting that technical (the tpi), an ‘artists impression’ will do for me at this scale. Painting the strops is going to be hard enough.

[bcochran]

28 minutes ago, shipman said:

LOL it can be done!

 

Just got confused between these two builds, pardon me. I just added a comment to Kevin's log which should have been for yours (though most of my 'interuptions' may apply to both your logs) .... It's my way of showing some appreciation for what you are collectively doing.

 

As for scaling up from 1:168 to 1:96, unless you're going to get too technical, simply doubling the dimensions you're talking about (to the eye on a completed model) would look just fine.

I'm beginning to post to Kevin's log too.   I learn a lot from him as I did from Bruma

[rwiederrich]

17 minutes ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Thanks again, and now I also understand the tpi. Gosh, I don’t think I’m going to bother getting that technical (the tpi), an ‘artists impression’ will do for me at this scale. Painting the strops is going to be hard enough.

You know you can add the wire via drilled hole and glue, then paint the entire leading edge of the deadeye white along with its iron support bar……then simply slip it through the pre drilled hole in the pin rail and glue.  
 

Simpler method. IMV
 

Rob

Edited May 6, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Kevin-the-lubber]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Simpler method. IMV

That's more or less my plan. After testing the wire in the hole bit already and seeing how strong this is, I don't think it'll need glueing at the pin rail, just down at the bottom, which should mean the wire itself can flex at the pinrail and find the natural angle. Less risk then of the deadeye itself breaking, which is a real risk with very thing resin parts. That's the theory anyway, and I'll test this out over the weekend on a mock up.

[bcochran]

I noticed on Kevin's log a discussion of chain. I bought 45 link per inch chain on Ebay HO model railroad section.  I bought all he had but there may be more later.

 

I learned long ago to look to model railroad parts for planes, boats and automobile details.  They sometimes look like what you are after even though they are really something else in train scale.  It helps that I have been playing with trains for 70 years.  Ships are a sideline.

 

Crescent Locomotive works Inc, blackened brass chain. Great for freight car and flatbed loads,  logging, rigging and many other applications. This chain is 45 links per inch and can be easily cut with an Xacto blade. Chain is sold by the foot at 1.95 per foot.  

Edited May 6, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

I noticed something about Longridge's model. He has white panels on the deck houses, a skysail boom, stun sail booms and brown wood masts.  He also does not have the name board on the bow.  

Is that accurate? Cutty Sark's skysail was gone in March 1880 when the yards and masts were cut down.  What period of Cutty Sark's life did he model?  His forecastle break is not like the ship today, which is what Revell has modeled. When was that changed on the ship?

 

By the late 1880's, I read John Sankey to say, that masts and spars were black and no stun sail booms in the cut down version.  If one was to alter Revell's mast and yards to represent the cut down version, how would you go about it?

 

I want to know when the panels were first painted white.

 

John Sankey's model is what I aspire to, a wool clipper.  Sankey's grandfather was an apprentice on the Cutty Sark during Captain Wallace's hell voyage.

 

Sankey said "G.F.Campbell made detailed drawings of her 1870 tea rig for the Cutty Sark Preservation Society"  If we follow Campbell are we building a tea clipper?  I guess so.

 

I wonder when we in 2022 decide what details to add to our models based on our assumptions about the ship in the years 1869 - 1922 how certain can we be that what we are doing to our models is accurate?  At what point in time are we modeling her? Do we ask ourselves that?

 

I know my model is based on what Revell has done and my deciding to paint it as I like, along with an unpainted deck and the few changes I made.  Mine will be in the vain of Longridge's, not an exact replica of the ship at any certain point in time.   I think the same goes for most models.

 

My unsolved mystery and I really wish I knew is when were the panels first painted white? Another question I have is what was Revell's source of information when the model was designed? Its inaccuracies have been referred to many times in these forums and others, yet some authors consider the model very accurate.

 

This morning I have begun reading Longridge's book after having read Lubbock's book twice. Maybe I will find an answer.  In his book, plans by Underhill show white panels on the deck houses.  I have posted a potion of that plan. So what year was he referring to in his plan?

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by bcochran