Mayflower by LCdr Dave - Billing Boats - 1:60

[kirill4]

Good day,

Nice tops You made!

Your question about blocks...

"  The rigging drawing shows a couple of blocks hanging from the bottom of the trestle tree with now part numbers. They seem to be part of the running rigging attached to the spars. I think using eyebolts to attach the blocks will be the way to go - there is no indication on the drawing. ..."     

 Which one, these blocks ? Could You show them on the drawing?

Most often, such blocks  , under the tops, used for buntlines and leechlines rigging lines...

All the best!

Kirill

Edited May 28 by kirill4

[kirill4]

Probably there are no such blocjs at all need to be attached here...

look at these drawings from some german book , unfortunately I don't know who is the author of this book

[LCdr Dave]

If only I could read German! 🙂

One of the blocks takes line #27 (brace?) which is anchored somehow under the top, I think. The other one takes #34 I think, which seems to be a tackle ? 
on the foremast, these would be #10 and 13 I think. 
Trying to figure out how much I need to attach before stepping the masts so I don’t end up trying to tie tiny knots in hidden spots. 
I have attached pics of my drawings. 
 

 

 

thanks for looking,

Dave

[Knocklouder]

Dave I think line 10 and 27 are for controlling the yardarm. And 13 and 34 are for the bow lines. My Mayflower is rigged different,  but the lines your talking about are tied on to the top of the block,  on the mast then run to  block at the yardarm and back though the one on the mast then down to a cleat  on the mast. The same for the Bowlines.  You did  nice work on the mast tops , looking forward to seeing it finished. 

 Hope that make sense. As far as how much to leave , we all rig different,  I like to leave lots hanging over the side with  clips to hold them till I am ready to tie everything of.

Man I hope that's right lol   

Bob M

 

Edited May 29 by Knocklouder
More info

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

Lines 10,27 -they are just fore and main course lifts , for correct rigging see apropriate pages in Anderson book, or drawing" fig.49 Toppnanten,Schoten.".. from that german book I posted above.

By the way, in your kit drawings they wrongly shown running lines 11, and 28, which supposed to be topsail sheets... there should be two blocks rigged very close to each other (in english fashion) on the yard arms end -  bigger one -for topsail sheet and smaller for passing  lifts line...all details of this arrangements clearly explained in Anderson book and could be seen  on that fig.49 as well..

Lines 13,34 - leechlines or martnets - see Anderson P168-169 or  see page 64 fig 53 poz 67,66,65 in that german book scans which I posted above.

As You could see, for this period, no leading blocks supposed to be secured to the top crosspiece as shown in your kit drawings, all these blocks need to be secured to the fore and main stays loops under the top , and lead blocks for fore and main / lifts running end , as a rule , stropped to the long strope to the mast tope above shrouds loops(fig.31 block A), and block itself attached to this long strope was placed bellow top platform... there are a few pictures and explanation much better than mine :)))  about it in Anderson book...

All the best!

By my opinion, those pictures from german book in combination with Anderson book( I see this german  author very closely followed Anderson guides in rigging)  , are very handy for rigging your MF... better use them than kit drawings for your model rigging...

All the Best!

Kirill

Edited May 29 by kirill4

[LCdr Dave]

Kirill, you have outdone yourself again! Thank you so much for the info and guidance. Taking the time to scan those drawings and provide the detailed instructions takes time and effort - I can’t say thank you enough. 

I’m learning so much about rigging and model ship building - it’s awesome.

Bob, thanks for keeping an eye out for me. You did a great job finishing your MF. I can only hope to come close.

Cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

I redid the gammoning in what should be a better-scaled rope size. Then I finished up the masts (minus cleats) and I still have to decide on how the yards are to be hung. I think ropes through the hounds are the way to go vs jeers. Anderson does mention jeers but I can’t figure out the arrangement. 
I am unwilling to completely redesign the model and am not looking for an accurate replica so I am OK with carrying some inaccuracies forward. I did opt to make new deadeyes for the stays since these are obvious. 
 

 

I laminated two pieces of wood, drew a pattern based on Anderson’s measurements, and filed them to shape. 
 

 

The finished one compared to the kit-provided. 

 

Thanks for looking. 
Cheers,

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

I’m just starting the rigging on my Billing Mayflower, which has a dearth of instruction or info. The forestay collar, according to Baker, is “secured around the bowsprit with a deadeye seized in”. I cannot see how to actually tie this. I tried (and maybe my piece of rope was too short) but after an hour of fumbling I just had two severely frayed ends and nothing tied. Should I make a loop, and seize the ends together and then insert the deadeye and seize it in? I was trying to seize the two ends at the bottom of the deadeye but maybe it needs two steps…

 

 

thanks for looking. 
Dave

[Baker]

1 hour ago, LCdr Dave said:

according to Baker

have I written a book? 😉

 

[LCdr Dave]

Patrick, if you haven’t, maybe you should. 
So…..I won’t be wrapping the rope but how did you actually go about tying the deadeye in?

BTW, I really like your hole pattern

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day Dave,

I liked your variant "A "!

All the best!

Kirill

 

 

[kirill4]

I did it like this 

[Baker]

2 hours ago, LCdr Dave said:

Patrick, if you haven’t, maybe you should. 
So…..I won’t be wrapping the rope but how did you actually go about tying the deadeye in?

BTW, I really like your hole pattern

Dave

 When an old men makes a drawing on a smartphone ...🤣

Bleu = seize

Kirill is more professional 😉

 

Edited June 20 by Baker

[kirill4]

Good day,

Your Variant A looks not so bad...!!!

First I also used this one, but later on I cganged my mind and borrowed idea from Batavia ship replica rigging... :)...

I could suggest first to prepair piece of rope with imitation of parcelling , than making kind of loop of necessary diameter from preliminary processed thread ( have been painted by artistic oil  or acryl paints of suitable color and semi parcelled and painted again - painted threads much easy to work with, and they look more realistic than just unprocessed thread taking strait from the spool), let it good dry ,than making diagonal cutt in place of future connection and to glue them here by CA gel( not liquid CA).... for more reliable connection You can apply set of seizing here by simple knots applied very close to each other at this place... for making seizing better to use some kind of very thin mono thread or very thin any kind of thread , than thiniest than better which You could find...!

Edited June 20 by kirill4

[LCdr Dave]

Gentlemen, thank you so much! I will make this work and it will probably be some kind of combination of these ideas. 
cheers,

Dave

[kirill4]

Good day,

Dave,

There are a few photo of W.Barents ship replica...

there are also a couple of working ideas how to secure lower part of the stay gear

- one - attaching main stay to the fore mast and

another one - connecting fore stay to the bowsprit....actually both could be used for connecting fore stay ... 

 

Edited June 21 by kirill4

[Thanasis]

Hello. Having inventing this "my way of seizing" I would suggest to take a look in the below sketches.

A. Shows how you should fold the thread around the bowsprit if there are already other rigging stuff alongside. It also shows the "premade" seizing, from which all the thread's edges should pass.

Here the seizing is off the tool but it would be easier if you pass all the edges of the threads while the seizing is on the tool.

B. Shows the already placed seizing (still a bit loose) and the deadeye in the upper loop.

C. Shows that first you have to tighten the maine thread and then the thread of the seizing.

At the end there will be a double loop around the bowsprit and a single one around the deadeye.

Cut all edges and a bit of glue will secure the whole set.

I hope it could be helpful.

Thx

Edited June 21 by Thanasis

[kirill4]

All  these performed examples are good... but, consider ,there are a few realy arrangements things which they works , on the full size vessels...  Batavia replica, and Swain ( W.Barents ship replica) ... but how it was arranged on MF replica?

Dave, If You will found something interestings,  please give us actual arrangements of MF replica as it shown on the photoes..?

This part of connecting fore stay and bowsprit and MS tay and F mast sray znd bowsprit ???

There must be here a lot of pictures of this thing in the  internet....? ... may be there would be a photos of Susan Constant replica pictures, Half Moen replica, Golden Hind replica and  so on .?where we could see later on such   their rigging details and so on... that would be very interesting!

All The Best !

Kirill

Edited June 21 by kirill4

[kirill4]

Good day,

I have found this resource interesting , there are a few pictures of Mayflower II 

https://plimoth.org/plan-your-visit/explore-our-sites/mayflower-ii

 

[LCdr Dave]

I think I have it figured out. Thanks so much for all your help. You guys are awesome. This project would have been binned long ago without you. 😁