PIllars

[allanyed]

There are pillars between decks and I have found scantlings for them circa 1800 in Steel as well as the Establishments, but what I cannot find, so far, is if they are in a single row or double row depending on the deck.

 

What I need at this point is specifically for a 32 gun, mid to late 18th century.  I can see a double row of pillars in the photo below under the QD but cannot find information on the pillars under the upper deck beams.   I did look at quite a few inboard profile drawings of 32s and similar size vessels but none of the ones I researched show any pillars on the plans.  

 Any help would be appreciated finding a book or other source that gives specifics or even general information on pillars on various size vessels.  At this point I am assuming a double row would be appropriate for the UD but would love to see more information based on contemporary sources.

TIA

Allan

 

[Mark P]

Good Morning Allan;

 

A 32 gun contract from 1778 states that the pillars under the upper deck are to be 6 5/8" at the base, and 6 3/8" at the top, turned; but it does not state if these are to be single or double rows. However, the lack of this detail does seem to suggest that it was a standard arrangement, meaning that if you can find information on a different sized ship, it probably applied to yours also.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[allanyed]

Thanks Mark

 

What I recall seeing is mostly see single row for the orlop and double rows on decks with a larger number of hatches as well as ordnance.  Barring anything more concrete that is the route I am going on this experimental project.  At 1:200 scale a lot of details are being left out or simplified but the pillar rows can be seen thus my desire to do a little research into it.

 

Allan

[SJSoane]

Hi Allan,

 

Peering down into the first model of the Bellona (74) 1760, I saw mostly pillars down the center, but in a few places there are two beside each other. They double up at the wheel, as you see below, at the capstans, at some partners. There seems to be some practical reason for the switch, adapting to particular circumstances in a particular location. At the wheel, it is to line up with the bitts; at the capstan it is to find clearance in a tight spot behind a ladder.

 

I found it helpful to draw the pillars on the deck plans overlaid with each other, so I could see where the tops and bottoms of the pillars would hit. Then I could see why the shipwright (or at least, the Bellona model builder) made adjustments to the general rule of one row down the center.

 

Just one more piece of information to add to your design challenge!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

[druxey]

Many instances of 'doubling up' would be to resist greater forces on the beams where there will be stress or weight.

[SJSoane]

And here is my reconstruction of the Bellona upper deck with pillar locations as I could see them in the model, or what logically made sense given the location of the beams above and below (none in the waist, of course):

 

[allanyed]

Hi Mark

Many many thanks for the photos and drawing.   I hope you don't mind my asking, but how did you get those great photos?  

Allan

[SJSoane]

Hi Allan,

 

I wrote to the National Maritime Museum in 2011, and asked if I could visit the Bellona model. I showed them the work I had done on my research and model. They arranged for a private viewing in one of their back workrooms, and I was allowed to take as many photos as I wanted. They hovered in the background working on something else, but I really was left to look it over. I was so, so, tempted to touch it, just to say I had, but I honored the conservator's golden rule of not touching.

 

I was also given permission to show these photos on our website, as long as I or anyone else did not use them for personal profit.

 

I visited Chatham in mid winter, and so all of the galleries were closed to visitors back in 2011. I didn't see anything but the Bellona model. Maybe someday I can get back and go through the galleries!

 

Great memories!

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

Hi Allan,

In passing these on to you, I noticed something I had not seen before. Directly afore the ladder from the quarterdeck down to the upper deck, there is a pillar on the center line right at the base of the ladder. It also required an additional carling on the centerline, which seems like redundant structure with the two carlings either side of the ladderway nearby:

 

And then I see again the same situation at the ladder from the upper deck to the gundeck, a pillar directly at the base of the ladder:

 

 

It would have been so easy to put pillars on the carlings either side of the ladder way, not blocking the access to the ladder. So there are other considerations going on, whether pillars are on the centerline or not. Just when you think you understand what those guys were doing!

 

BTW, I use your Scantlings book quite regularly. Great book!

 

Mark

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by SJSoane

[allanyed]

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the additional photos, they are great to see.

11 hours ago, SJSoane said:

BTW, I use your Scantlings book quite regularly. Great book!

MANY thanks for the compliment on my scantlings book, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness in mentioning it.

 

Allan