popeye2sea Posted June 15, 2023 Share #811 Posted June 15, 2023 For my SR I am definitely making my own t'gallant masts from wood. I am still debating replacing the top masts. They seem sturdy enough but I am just not sure. I am not that concerned with the length of the top masts. As Marc mentioned, the French seemed to go for longer top masts. Regards, Henry Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share #812 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) Henry my topmast are pretty strong now with the wood dial glued inside. I am studying the topgallants to determine how to make my own. I saw in your early build posts that you filled the unneeded recessed area at the top of the lower masts (intended for the shroud tops) with thin Evergreen strips. I am going to do that as well before painting. Edited June 15, 2023 by Bill97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 15, 2023 Share #813 Posted June 15, 2023 58 minutes ago, Bill97 said: Henry my topmast are pretty strong now with the wood dial glued inside. I am studying the topgallants to determine how to make my own. I saw in your early build posts that you filled the unneeded recessed area at the top of the lower masts (intended for the shroud tops) with thin Evergreen strips. I am going to do that as well before painting. Yes, I saw this on Henry’s build and did the same. Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share #814 Posted June 16, 2023 Ok guys I mentioned the other day that I was either crazy, bold, or both! I am now thinking it is both! Looking way ahead to a time, maybe a year or so from now, that I am finishing up building my SR. I have contemplated trying a wooden model ship. Have not made one before but I do have a lot of experience with wood working. So I have done some research and decided on the he one I would someday purchase. I wanted one that was large enough scale to allow for plenty of detail. I wanted one that is made of several different woods that would be beautiful to look at, and I wanted one with a moderate to high difficulty level. After building the two Heller ships I find I really enjoy a high level of difficulty. With that as my criteria I made my decision and stored it away in my memory bank for a someday purchase. Still very enthusiastic about my SR and want nothing to distract from it. Well as luck would have it I saw that model for sale at an excellent price. Figuring that there was nothing wrong with having it in my stash for some day, I jumped on the sale. So here it is my next project some day in the future when I finish my SR. The OcCre Endeavor! Hubac's Historian and Ian_Grant 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share #815 Posted June 16, 2023 Ok I have the bow all stripped, reguilded, and paint touched up. Much more pleased with the gold leaf now. Just one layer of leaf and top coat allows so much ch more details to show. Baker, Ian_Grant, Hubac's Historian and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 16, 2023 Share #816 Posted June 16, 2023 I always liked the Endeavor replica! Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share #817 Posted June 17, 2023 I am about ready to have what I used to accuse my kids of having when they were little. A full fledged “hissy fit”! I am working on two different areas that will be united in the future. One area is preparing and painting the masts sections. The other is making my chain plates. I am using 22ga copper wire to make my chain links. The upper one around the deadeye, the middle link, and the bottom link that is bolted to the hull. For some reason that I can not figure out (something I must be doing wrong) my solder is not holding the joint in the link. I have tried using Solder-It and when that was unsuccessful I tried solid solder. I have joint tight together. Apply the side solder using my soldering iron. Then when it cools I test the joint and it easily separates. Can not figure out what I am doing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted June 17, 2023 Share #818 Posted June 17, 2023 Does the copper have a coating on it that you need to sand off maybe? Is that tube some kind of liquid flux? Bill, chain plates were not always like the ones on Victory. According to Andersen, all nations used plates, not chains, at least for the first forty years of the 17th century. Then everyone switched to chains for 15 years, then English ships switched back to plates. I'm not even sure what year SR purports to be from. I remember seeing Dafi's SR with plates. Take everything I say here with a grain of salt, I haven't done any research. Andersen states (twice) that chains/plates is a difficult matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #819 Posted June 18, 2023 Ian I think I discovered my issue. But I will sand a good length of wire to see if it makes a difference. The tube is a product called Solder-It. It is a simple solder paste you apply to the joint and then apply heat. When it works it makes almost an immediate soldered joint that is strong. I was using my soldering iron as the heat source. The iron tip pulled the solder around uneven causing a weak joint. I ultimately tried applying the solder paste to the joint and then touching it to a candle flame. There was then the desired instant sizzle and smooth solder joint. I applied pressure to the joint and it seems solid. Isn I read that same information in Anderson’s book. And I must admit I was completely confused. What is the difference between chains and chain plates? I am (was) planning to make chains just like the Victory. It seems as if other builders have done it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted June 18, 2023 Share #820 Posted June 18, 2023 A plate is (was?) a single piece of metal with a hook at one end for the deadeye strop and a hole (sometimes two) at the other end to bolt to the hull. I know Dafi's SR had single plates in the form of straight bars, I've seen the photos. But he made that a long time ago; maybe he would differ now. In later centuries chains ie the 3-piece link you are used to, were used by all. But Andersen is quite definite that from 1600 to 1640 all ships used plates as he shows in the diagrams. What year is this SR supposed to be? Marc would know. As to your soldering, is the tip dirty? It needs to be cleaned and tinned for effective use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted June 18, 2023 Share #821 Posted June 18, 2023 According to the plans, 1669. But, if it is indeed actually a model of the second SR then 1692? Regards, Henry Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 18, 2023 Share #822 Posted June 18, 2023 From 1670, onward in France, chains are appropriate. Ian_Grant and Bill97 2 Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #823 Posted June 18, 2023 So I am authentic using the the 3 chain links as I did on my HMS Victory? The strop around the deadeye that extends down through the channel, the toe link that attaches to the hull, and the center link that connects the strope and the toe? The Victory has a fourth link that attaches at bottom of toe (same nail) and extends down the hull a little further. On the SR the toe is nailed on a wale. To add this fourth link would require it to be bent around the bottom of the wale like a tiny step. Would this be the case or was this fourth link just not used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 18, 2023 Share #824 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) A Dutch ship of the mid 1660s: The Frolich model of L’Ambiteaux, 1680, which was produced from the Boudriot monograph: I think these are reliable guides for period practice on the Continent. Edited June 18, 2023 by Hubac's Historian Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted June 18, 2023 Share #825 Posted June 18, 2023 I seem to have caused a fruitless digression, again. Sorry. I wasn't sure which half of the century SR was from; Andersen states that in the latter half everyone did indeed have chains. BIll, that 4th part is called the "preventer plate". Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #826 Posted June 18, 2023 Again not a problem Ian. I always enjoy the discussions. So do I use a preventer plate stepped under the wale? Soldering issue solved. Stropes for the lower deadeyes on the fore and main mast being shaped. I am using a 5mm deadeye for the fore sms main mast lower deadeye. I find putting the soldered joint on top the deadeye provides the less stress on the solder. Will shape them then open a little to get the deadeye out for blackening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 18, 2023 Share #827 Posted June 18, 2023 An interesting particularity of French practice: on the Frolich model, you can see that the preventer plate spans two wales. The French fill the space between wales, flush to the surface of the wales, and for the length of the channel above. Bill97 1 Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted June 18, 2023 Share #828 Posted June 18, 2023 They look great. Just make sure you orient your deadeye the other way around with the middle hole pointed towards the 'haft' of the strop. Regards, Henry Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #829 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) Oh yes Henry, that is for sure. Just shaping the strop. Thanks for the reminder. Wow Marc that would be some special detail. Do you plan to do that with your preventer plates? Edited June 18, 2023 by Bill97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #830 Posted June 18, 2023 One down and 33 to go! Snug Harbor Johnny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 18, 2023 Share #831 Posted June 18, 2023 I haven’t quite decided yet, Bill. I have made my new channels so that the shrouds won’t interfere with the guns above. Because I lowered the channels on the hull, I could not simply copy the layout of the kit channels. I haven’t yet figured out whether I want the chain plates to extend down to the middle band of wales. Doing so would certainly make them easier to fashion. I recently bought some brass 24 gauge wire, so I will begin experimenting soon. Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #832 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) Lower large deadeyes for shrouds on the foremast and mainmast completed with blackened strop. Some fall a little short in the beauty contest. They will be relegated to the starboard side. I plan to display my SR in the case with the port side facing out. All seem to be strong enough to do their designed job. Of course I will see if that is true when shroud pressure is applied. I think since I have the soldered joint on the top of the deadeye and the top will ultimately be obscured by the lanyard, I am going to add a small drop of CA glue to the top at the joint. That way if the shroud pressure would cause the soldered joint to pop the CA will keep it in place. Your thoughts? Edited June 18, 2023 by Bill97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share #833 Posted June 18, 2023 Marc I meant to tell you I was going to the Racing Louisville vs NY/NJ Gotham NWSL game today. Good day for Louisville. Ian you can see we are enjoying your smoke 😊. Love ya anyway 😀. RossR and Hubac's Historian 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share #834 Posted June 19, 2023 I am looking at these top gallant masts and wondering how do you make them using metal rods or wood dials? Do you cut away all the plastic masts sections from the base and all the other mast construct sections then drill out these pieces to accept the metal or wood? Or do you fabricate the entire mast including the tops, etc? Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share #835 Posted June 19, 2023 Marc I see your 👍but not sure of your recommendation on remaking these topgallants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted June 19, 2023 Share #836 Posted June 19, 2023 I will comment more in-full, Bill. I just haven’t had a chance yet Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share #837 Posted June 19, 2023 Thanks my friend. At your convenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted June 19, 2023 Share #838 Posted June 19, 2023 My plan is to cut the mast sections flush with the caps. Then drill and re-use the caps, making my new top gallant masts from wood. I will also be making the top gallant cross trees that are very flimsy plastic. Regards, Henry Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share #839 Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Thanks Henry. What about the cylinder sort of shaped sections. Doing the same with them? Henry I saw in your early photos that you made what you called a mast coat to go around the base of the mast at the deck. What was your process for that? I like that detail. Edited June 20, 2023 by Bill97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye2sea Posted June 20, 2023 Share #840 Posted June 20, 2023 I will only re-use the mast caps. Everything else, including the circular hounds, are integral to the mast sections and will be incorporated into those sections. I will be re-designing the bases and fids to look more realistic. I answered you question about the mast coats following the query you posted in my build log. Regards, Henry Quote Henry Laissez le bon temps rouler ! Current Build: Le Soleil Royal Completed Build: Amerigo Vespucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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