23 foot Launch by allanyed - Bounty?? - late 18th century

[oakheart]

28 minutes ago, allanyed said:

The breadths for each of the planks including upper strake, landing strake and bottom planking are in the scantlings in post 1. 

 

Wow thanks Allan, a very comprehensive reply. 

A lot of the terminology still catches me out sometimes but checking back in this log, your drawing in #14 shows it all clearly.

Now I feel I can start to work on the planking................

 

Tim

Edited January 11, 2023 by oakheart

[allanyed]

Latest photo-----   I will likely remove the transom knees as they are too broad in the fore and aft direction.   The thwart knees look a little thick to me but they are spot on per the scantlings so will be left as is.  I imagine the two davit support pieces and windlass were removed to allow more room for the 18 sailors but I have opted to leave them.   

 

I also have a question regarding the tholes.  Based on Bligh's notes the launch did not have wash boards so these may be fine.  BUT, the contemporary drawing shows what would be wash boards.  If that is the case, the tholes need to be made such that there is a slot for the boards as in the sketch below.  Thoughts,  or better, does anyone have contemporary plans or model photos showing the thole details for when there were washboards circa late 18th century.

Allan

 

 

[oakheart]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Latest photo-----   

question regarding the tholes. 

That is looking fantastic, amazing detail given the scale of the model.
Brilliant work, you must be really pleased with it.

 

Tholes - having a look at the photos of models at NMM these are modern models they have 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-68956

and made in 1988  https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-68947

 

 

Tim

Edited January 11, 2023 by oakheart
add photo

[allanyed]

MANY thanks Tim.  I have studied this model early on and dismissed this and the model by Dr. Norton as there are a number of things that are wrong

scale-wise.  One example is the stitching of the sail around the bolt rope.  The stitching is over 1/2"  in diameter which is huge! 

Allan

[oakheart]

Just now, allanyed said:

The stitching is over 1/2"  in diameter which is huge! 

I guess mistakes like that take away any credibility it may have had.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

I will likely remove the transom knees as they are too broad in the fore and aft direction.

Actually they're about right fore aft however they should be as indicated in green below with that in red removed:

 

6 hours ago, allanyed said:

Based on Bligh's notes the launch did not have wash boards so these may be fine.  BUT, the contemporary drawing shows what would be wash boards.

Basically there is nothing in Bligh's notes or the crew testimony that gives any clue to washboards or tholes/rowlocks other than the freeboard being between 7 and 9 inches when leaving the Bounty and the fitting of canvas splash guards.

 

Which contemporary drawing? Sorry, my brain is confused this morning trying to interpret 18th century English nautical terms.

Edited January 11, 2023 by iMustBeCrazy

[allanyed]

13 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Actually they're about right fore aft however they should be as indicated in green below with that in red removed:

They are a bit out of scale fore and aft when I compare to the plan we have been using most of the time.   I still do not think, and may be wrong, that the knee ends as you show it in the athwartship direction.  Using 7361 it shows the knees coming to a point which I have never seen before.  I think, as with the benches, there may be drawing lines in error.   ZAZ7355 and ZAZ 5814 are much more clear, albeit completely different.  

Thanks guys, much appreciated

Allan

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

Starting to get into the rigging.  There is not a lot of information on rigging these boats but enough to get started.   I have opted for loose footed sails and rigged as follows, SO FAR.  Any details that are based on contemporary sources, be it text, models, replicas and drawings would be most welcome!   Starting point is below. The first question concerns the cleats.  Is this what would have been used for the tacks and clues,  and if yes would there be one port and one starboard for each sail?

I may have mislabled the below, but based it on the following from Steels, Elements and Practice of Rigging

In triangular sails, and in quadrilateral ones, where the head is not parallel to the foot, the foremost corner at the foot is called the tack; the after lower corner, the clue 

Second question, are parrels appropriate?  I have seen photos of contemporary models with quadrilateral sails but none of them have parrels that I can recall. 

To paraphrase Paul Simon, still <learning> after all these years......

 

Allan

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by allanyed

[oakheart]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Starting to get into the rigging. 

 

Allan I just got a reply from Any Wyke at the National Maritime Museum Cornwall 

 

"Answers, as best I can, are below your questions.

I’m not a model builder but I’ve looked at a site/forum I think you  have contributed to and read some of the arguments for and against certain things.

Our launch was lofted full size from the RMG drawing: you would know better than I how that amount of detail scales down to a model-sized copy, but I suspect the smaller the model the more scope there is for differences.

Our boat cannot be considered to be a replica, in strict terms that would be a true copy in every detail, which would be impossible to build as we don’t have the original, and I don’t know of any original ship’s boat of that era in existence: it would save us all a lot of homework if there was such a thing. Even HMS Victory’s boats are not originals, they were reconstructed in the early 20^th century. Our boat was a reconstruction based on extensive research and sound boatbuilding practice. It’s entirely possible that the original boat when built differed in some respects from the RMG plan – that’s not unusual and could be due to a number of factors e.g. ready availability of materials, building deadlines, customer’s wishes and builder’s preferences……..

Kind regards,

Andy

 

QnA

1: what reference did you use for your rigging?
W.E. May’s publication, rigs are clearly defined for different types of boat

2: Is there anything you would change with hindsight?
No

3: What other places we could look for more information?
D.Steel’s  publications  https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TWsmw-QqvmAC&pg=RA1-PT18&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false  plus another one The Shipwright’s Vade Mecum,  also downloadable on Google.

4: Tholes, on you replica you installed washboards, which from further research we think was not on the boat that was used on the journey.
Not sure where you received that info from

in the case of no washboard, what would the correct style thole be?
 I don’t know for sure, would May’s book help?

5 : number of strakes ( planks ) used, you used more, narrower planks than the original?
See my comments above – the original is not available, only the drawing.
"

 

 

Hope that helps with your build.

Tim

ps. We  had better make sure we behave ourselves as we are being observed from afar......................

[oakheart]

Talking of afar, when I said I wanted to go down and see the launch.

Andy told me

"The launch is now on its way to its new owners, the Bounty Museum, Norfolk Island Australia, the home – ironically enough – of descendants of some of the mutineers."

 

so it looks like it's over to you for the visit Craig.

Tim

Edited January 12, 2023 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

21 hours ago, allanyed said:

Using 7361 it shows the knees coming to a point which I have never seen before.

Ok, I think I have finally reconciled this. 7361 (and the book drawing) shows a seat back, against the transom (shown in purple), against which the knee stops or perhaps it is slotted around the knee (as I type this I think it's more likely than the blue dashed knee, so the knee would go all the way to the transom).

 

 

 

So the little bit in green below should be shown as dashes but it's too small:

 

[allanyed]

I found there was an error in W. E. May's The Boats of Men if War for the dimensions of the ears for a 24 foot launch.   Thanks to member AON, I have made a notation in my May book after looking at May's source, the scantlings given by David Steel in folio LVII.  The ears  in May's book for this size launch show them to be sided 1' 3" with a length of 6"    Per Steel they should be sided 3" and 1' 6" in length.  Looks like transposed numbers in the May book. 

Allan

Edited January 19, 2023 by allanyed

[Montaigne]

Very nice looking and an impressive build, Allan. I had missed how small it was and then I saw the coin. Hats off!

[iMustBeCrazy]

12 minutes ago, Montaigne said:

I had missed how small it was and then I saw the coin. Hats off!

I totally agree. On mine that coin fits between the frames with room to spare.