Perseverance 1807 by Isaiah - FINISHED - Modellers Shipyard - Colonial Brig

[Isaiah]

1 hour ago, Ferrus Manus said:

Do you, by any chance, own a wood-turning lathe? If not, you need one. 

Yes I do have one, I do woodworking as well which helps a lot with having the right tools for ship building.

[Louie da fly]

You can also make filler from sawdust and weak PVA (white) glue, particularly if you're trying to match the colour of your wood. Dunno about the ramen, though. I thought that was some kind of Japanese noodle.

 

On 5/23/2023 at 2:26 PM, Dr PR said:

Ferrus is right about the nautical jargon. Much of it is meaningless today. It originated in old European languages that no one speaks any more. Or as one fellow said "Shakespeare is impenetrable to the modern ear."

 

Well, I can't say I agree with that fellow. If you go see a Shakespeare play, most of the time you can follow what's happening very well. I remember when I was a schoolkid and we went off to see the Scottish play (don't call it MacB*th - it's bad luck) and some of the kids (who'd been studying the play, for heaven's sake) came back and asked why it'd been re-done in modern English - it hadn't. It's just that when you hear it spoken on stage it's a lot more understandable.

 

But yes, jargon - a bo'sun is a boatswain - and as we all know, a swain is a man (Old English Sweyn, probably from Old Norse Svein). The word is still used today in poetry, but usually ironically (as in a lovelorn swain). In a document I came across from 16th century Scotland the word used was botisman (i.e. boatman).

 

And then there are futtocks (would you believe foot-hooks?).

 

Steven

[Isaiah]

Foot hooks make sense, I was wondering why they had that name.

[Louie da fly]

Yes, the word sounds somewhat rude, doesn't it? You have them making up the frames,

and the shrouds that lead from the mast just below the fighting top to the outside of the top itself are called futtock shrouds

 

You're doing very well with this build. Hard to believe this is your first model. I hadn't come across it until you pipped Ferrus Manus at the post with regard to age, but now I'm following it with interest.

 

Where in Victoria are you? As you can see, I'm in sunny Ballarat. And there are quite a few of us Mexicans on MSW.

 

Steven 

 

PS: While a lathe is certainly useful, it's not absolutely necessary. I've made masts for several models by the traditional method - start with piece of wood with a square section, take off the corners so you have an octagonal shape, then take those corners off so it ends up circular. Perhaps a bit more work, but many masts weren't circular for their full length anyway. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Louie da fly

[Isaiah]

I’m near Warrnambool way.

 

I could’ve used a block plane to shape the masts and yards, but I’m lucky enough to have a lathe.

 

I’ve got most of the parts made for the foremast so I will start assembling maybe next week.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Isaiah

[Louie da fly]

Warrnambool's a beautiful town. I've been there several times. The Maritime Museum's well worth seeing.

 

Great that you have a lathe. That will help a lot.

 

Oh, and here's a bit of Shakespeare to inspire you as you work. Only a few archaic words might be a problem, but I think it's possible to get the sense of it very well.

 

 

The language has changed so little since Shakespeare's time that it is counted as Modern English. Chaucer is Middle English and Beowulf is Old English. Waes Thu hael!

 

Steven

[Ferrus Manus]

@Louie da flyI've read both Chaucer and Beowulf.

[Louie da fly]

(Beowulf - Because Chaucer is Too Easy)

[Louie da fly]

Isaiah, I was just looking at your planking. You've done a beautiful job of it, and getting that tight curve at the stern is particularly impressive.

 

However, (and I really hate to tell you this, considering what a great job you're doing) in the interests of your future models I feel you should know that the kit manufacturer's planking instructions don't duplicate the way ship planking was done in the real world. They are designed more for ease of construction (and their own convenience) than for historical accuracy. Your planking is excellent, particularly the second layer, and followed the instructions really well, but unfortunately those instructions are misleading.

 

I'm not saying to change anything on this model - it's excellent just as it is. But before you start your next one I'd recommend strongly that you look at the planking tutorials at https://modelshipworld.com/forum/98-planking-downloads-and-tutorials-and-videos/. Historically accurate planking is more difficult and takes more work, but I believe it's worth the extra time and effort. This is just a heads-up for future reference, not a criticism of your work.

 

Steven

[Isaiah]

Thanks Steven,

 

As you’re aware I don’t have a whole lot of knowledge. What would the main things you see wrong with my planking or the model for that matter? 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Isaiah

[Ferrus Manus]

5 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

manufacturer's planking instructions don't duplicate the way ship planking was done in the real world.

Jokes on you!! I can plank the Senora Fielden however i want because it's almost 600 years old and almost no historical evidence exists for how it was planked! 

[Ferrus Manus]

45 minutes ago, Isaiah said:

What would the main things you see wrong with my planking

nothing. However, adding drop planks and a tangible plank shift would help. Also, wider wales and rubbing strakes and scarf joints. Lots of scarf joints. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

Check out any build log of the H.M. Cutter Cheerful, namely the Vanguard kit by our own Chuck Passaro. Pay close attention to the planking thereof. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Louie da fly]

Hi Isaiah, I find it's a fine line between pointing out areas needing improvement and blunting someone's enthusiasm, something I'm very loath to do. I've seen savage critiques on other forums which just seem to be for point-scoring rather than helping someone improve, and I want very much to avoid that. 

 

9 hours ago, Isaiah said:

What would the main things you see wrong with my planking

The problem is that a ship's hull, particularly below the water-line, is a very complex 3-dimensional shape - narrower at the bow and stern and wider amidships (plus curving in the other dimension as the hull is rounded). Because of this, planks are usually tapered towards bow and stern (this process is called spiling), as in the picture below (I think this is one of Chuck's)

Kits usually provide you with parallel-sided planks, which just can't follow that shape properly.  This is obviously easier (= cheaper) for them than to provide spiled planks.

 

And sometimes it's necessary to "drop" planks as the curves get tighter, so there are fewer planks side by side, at the bow in particular. There are clever ways to do this, which are outlined in the planking tutorials. If you look carefully at the picture above, you can see that the plank at the bottom (nearest the black part) comes to an end before it reaches the bow, and the next plank widens to make up for this, so there is one plank where there had been two.

 

The other thing is that planks never come to a sharp point - it would be too hard to nail the ends in place on the frames. So where the plank is "dropped" in the picture above, there's a slight angle at the end of the plank, but not a sharp point.

 

As I mentioned above, I'd highly recommend you check out the planking tutorials - they're a real eye opener. I don't regard myself as an expert in planking by any means, still just blundering along trying to get my head around it all. But I'm getting better.

 

10 hours ago, Isaiah said:

or the model for that matter?

No, I think what you've done and what you're doing are very good indeed. Keep learning, keep asking questions. You'll improve as you go along, but to be honest I'm quite amazed that this is a first build.

 

Steven

 

[Ferrus Manus]

@Louie da fly congrats on restating what i said in a better and more descriptive manner 😏

[Isaiah]

Thanks Steven and Ferrus.

 

Now that you’ve pointed out the stealers/ wedges they don’t make much sense. I can see how this was aimed at new modellers by stuff like that.

[Louie da fly]

Yes, obviously the way the kit tells you to do it is much easier for a beginner to take on, so in some ways there's some sense in telling people to do it that way. Dropping a newbie in the deep end of spiling planks could be enough to make him/her decide it's all too difficult and give up in disgust. Though judging by your work so far I doubt that would apply to you

 

Steven

[Isaiah]

I have assembled the foremast and is just sitting in place at the moment with no varnish.

 

the construction was straight forward with not too much difficulty, I think I’ve done everything correct.

 

I don’t know if you can see but the Topgallent mast is leaning back slightly on the lateral axis. As soon I assembled with glue and looked back to make sure it was square it was too late. The glue had already taken hold. I will have to remove it somehow.
 

I also textured the mast to make it look less like a machined dowel, and more like an actual mast, since I used the lathe method of tapering and shaping.
 

I will continue on and start the assembly of the main mast.

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Isaiah

[Louie da fly]

What kind of glue are you using? If it's PVA (white) glue it can be softened with isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) commercially known as rubbing alcohol. In the last resort it can even be used to undo PVA glue joints, but it sounds like you just need to swivel it a little, which isopropanol will enable you to do (if you're careful). 

 

I've read somewhere that CA (superglue) can be dissolved with acetone, but I haven't tried it except with nail polish remover which didn't work (it has about 60% acetone IIRC).

 

Might be worth a try.

 

Steven

[Isaiah]

Thanks Steven,

 

With enough force it came loose by itself. the topgallent mast is now straight.

 

on to the main mast.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Isaiah

[Louie da fly]

Glad to hear it. It can be very disappointing after doing all that work making the mast to discover that the damn' thing has ended up crooked.

[Isaiah]

I have assembled the main mast then gave both masts a coat of matte varnish.

 

Both masts are pretty much identical except for height. I still have to add a few more blocks to the main mast before I can start rigging.

 

One thing I would do differently is make my own solid wood mast heads, as the plywood ones tend to chip and aren’t as strong.

 

I still haven’t installed the pin rail for the foremast, I will either make the pins or order them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Isaiah

[Isaiah]

I have rigged some of the standing rigging, thought I’d share my progress.

 

And yes, I broke the belfry.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Isaiah

[ccoyle]

2 hours ago, Isaiah said:

And yes, I broke the belfry.

 

Congratulations, you have now 'arrived'! All modelers break something somewhere along the way. Maybe even multiple somethings.

[Isaiah]

11 hours ago, ccoyle said:

 

Congratulations, you have now 'arrived'! All modelers break something somewhere along the way. Maybe even multiple somethings.

Don’t worry I’ve broken many other things as well.

[Ferrus Manus]

Sorry i failed to comment on this earlier, but the lower heart on the fore lower stay is upside down. It needs to be turned around so the pointy bit is facing the bowsprit. Also, they need to be closer together. Sorry to be such a hardass, but if i were you, i would redo the entire fore lower stay. I guess it might just be OCD. It's how i learned. I still screw up rigging all the time. The good thing is, it's one less mistake you'll have to worry about. 

 

A diagram:

The bottom one is facing the bowsprit, and the top one has the actual stay seized round it. 

 

P.S. Your bowsprit lashings look phenomenal! I couldn't do a lashing that well to save my life. I hate to focus on your errors, because overall your Perseverance is a fine beauty, and you're doing her justice and living up to her name. As far as i am aware, your stated goal is to learn, and i believe that is of high praise. However, the way you learn is by not getting away with anything. If i didn't call you on every error and tell you how to fix them, i would simply be a bad mentor. However, i am surprised at your incredible craftsmanship and general lack of errors; I can hardly believe this is your first rodeo. 

 

My final point is unequivocally my most important: Do not ever devalue yourself or your work. Doing so is a recipe for catastrophe. You are just as valuable a shipwright as any of us- the "better" modellers simply have the luxury of decades of experience and fine-tuning. If you ever feel stuck in a pit, you can always shoot me a personal message, and i will be there to listen and guide you as best i can. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Ferrus Manus]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:42 PM, Isaiah said:

Don’t worry I’ve broken many other things as well.

Welcome to the club! You might not know, but i think i have to take the crown as King Breakstuff. 

[Isaiah]

Thank you Ferrus for the feedback and encouragement.

 

I will try to correct the forestay one of these days.

[Ferrus Manus]

I would do it now. The more you procrastinate and work around it, the harder it will get when you do it. Trust me, i know. 

[Isaiah]

I meant work on the ship in general. haven’t really done much since my last post.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Isaiah