Floquil enamels - getting harder to find

[Hank]

Anyone using Floquil enamels (brush/spray) ? Well, they're getting harder to find. I was getting them from Hobbylinc, but they seem to be closing out their inventory. I've found a second source for some of their enamels at www.ModelTrainStuff.com.

 

Just thought I'd pass this along.

 

and, NO, I'm not going over to the dark (track) side!!!!

[SkerryAmp]

Sadly, unsure if you heard or not, but Floquil along with Pollly S and apparently Pactra and ColorArtz paints have been discontinued by Testors.  So if you can find them, grab them up because soon they will be gone gone gone

 

 

-Adam

[samueljr]

Hank,

 

I too am a Floquil user.

 

They've been discontinued due to the environmental issues with enamel paints and apparently safety concerns as well.

 

Hit my local supplier as soon as I heard. Loaded up on about 4 - 5 colors I use. They'll probably end up drying out before I can get to them. Although I still have a couple of jars of the old Classic Sailing Color line that I'm nursing along believe it or not.

 

Sam

[druxey]

If well sealed and then well stirred, enamel paints will last a while. I have some tinlets (Humbrol, in this instance) from 1986 that are still good and being used now! A squirt from a can of inert gas on top to displace air before sealing will also extend paint life.

[Jaxboat]

I totally agree with druxey with one additional suggestion: store them in a cool place

Best

JAX

[johnegert]

Wellllllllllll, I didn't know that Testors was owned by Rustoleum......I don't think I've ever used a Rustoleum product that worked right for me....I don't know why--- some sort of Kharmic meltdown issue. The miniature figure wizards have gone over to Vallejo acrylics in a big way. I have an assortment of their colors and, given my phobia about acrylics generally, they are good paints. The one replacement we will be hearing about for Floquil is Scalecoat enamel, which the RR goofs have been using for years, which I have never liked to use. But we are definitely getting hemmed in a bit.

OK, Brethren and Cistern---- Time for you all to buy your beginning oil set and start peeing with the big dogs!! Rembrandt, Van Gough, Leonardo..... and ,of course, The Great American Lout.

yours truly, john

[johnegert]

Donaldo-- Vallejo makes a specific paint for airbrushing straight from the bottle---- it works well. I've airbrushed their regular paint, too, but have always thinned and strained. I think what bugs me about this is the corporate double-think and the fact that anyone changing over to Vallejo (or whatever new slime) is looking at a pretty hefty expense to get set up. And, needless to say, Vallejo is not a charitable institution. You'll shell out about $4 for those damn little eye-dropper bottles, and then must add all the media, etc., to keep continuity. Very annoying.... And trust me, geeknoids, I have used every substance from rabbit urine to polio vaccine to paint with over the decades. The only cheap alternatives that work half-decently are those craft paint acrylics--- some of which are darn good, if inconsistently so.

 Hank!! What are we going to use for huffing purposes now that Diosol is going bye-bye??? I used to come out of my workshop slobbering and staggering after a Floquil spray session!! Ah, Sic transit Gloria mundi, baby......

john

[samueljr]

Where'd you get the polio vaccine and what colors does it come in? - LOL!

[samueljr]

somebody HAD to ask...............

[dgbot]

I am sorry to heat that Testors is dropping Floquil.  I used it for many years and switched to Polyscale.  I have never thought much of Testors paint.  Right now I am experimenting with Badgers Modelflex paint and so far I have been happy with it.

David B

Edited September 5, 2013 by dgbot

[Elia]

Wow! This is news to me. I use both Floquil enamels and Polyscale acrylics. I really like the Floquil primer and their enamels for painting ironwork, metals, and britannia castings. I'm going out shortly to load up on the colors I like to use. I recall Bob Steinbrunn mentioning that he stores his Floquil enamel bottles upside down, effectively keeping them from drying out and his have lasted for apparently many years.

 

Elia

Edited September 6, 2013 by Elia

[EdT]

Let me put in a plug for  matte artist's acrylics - called acrylic designers gouache. 

 

I started using these in 1971 when they first came out (Rowney UK) to paint miniature military figures.  The finish is dead matte.  The colors today are as true as then.  They are highly pigmented, waterproof when dry, non-yellowing, can be water diluted to any consistency from opaque coat to semi transparent washes/stains, or mixed with acrylic mediums to give increased gloss,.  The color selection is enormous and they are much cheaper ( and in my opinion better) than hobby paints, which are made from the same acrylic emulsions. 

 

In the late seventies these seemed to go out of production but have come back.  I have painted over 5000 figures using these materials.  I used them diluted to dye the rigging rope for Victory and to stain wood.  Very versatile.

 

I have used Floquil, SCalecoat, Humbrol enamel and acrylics, Testor's, Vallejo and most others.  Here is a link to the type of acrylic gouache (Jo Sonja) that I have used for the last few decades. ( I have not bought from this particular supplier.)

 

http://painting-crafts.com/jo-sonja-tube-colors-2-5-oz.html

 

Other brands are undoudtedly just as good - eg. Turner Acryl Gouache - just make sure the finish is matte - look for the word gouache.

 

Do not confuse these with the much more prolific Artists Acrylics - these have a semi-gloss or even gloss finish and do not seem to dry as hard.   I have used them where some gloss is desired. 

 

Ed

[EdT]

I finally found a link to my usual supplier:

 

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/acrylic-paints-and-mediums/chroma-acrylics-and-mediums/jo-sonjas-artists-colours.htm

 

Ed

[riverboat]

Hi Ed..... thanks for the info on the Artist's Acrylics. I'll give these a try on my next order for paints..... the hobby paints are getting so expensive , like your self I've tried them all also....  the color selection looks real good ,as does the price!!

Frank

[EdT]

Frank, Keep in mind the difference between the normal Artists Acrylics and the matte gouache. YOu might want to try a tube or two first. I normally thin them a bit to improve flow. They are thick from the tube.

 

Ed

[johnegert]

The one thing I think I can guarantee about using acrylic gouaches is that you'll either love 'em or hate 'em---- nothing in between. Evil Ed's description is right-on, but using them can be tricky. Even in dampish climates, they dry almost the moment you place brush (let alone spray) to object-- immediately! This may appeal to those of you with attention spans of paramecia, but it makes for exciting, and often frustrating work. It also does not respond well to over coating itself, occasionally picking up the bottom coat and making a wretched mess. Much of this can be solved by using some of Jo Sonja's media, especially her "retarder" and "flow medium", which gives one a chance to do some blending, as well as scratching one's stern. I met Jo Sonja in Kansas City at a convention years ago, and tried to make her fall in love with me by buying a whole set of her colors, and hoping she would take me along to Australia, or wherever she was going. The idea failed dismally, and I still have a bunch of that weird stuff. When it's good, it's very, very good--- but when it's bad, it sucketh.

john

Edited September 10, 2013 by johnegert

[EdT]

John, I have never experienced either of the problems you cite and can think of no technical reason for them.  Sorry to disagree.  I usually preface everything I say about finishes with the caveat that there is much that is personal in these choices and this is of course the case with acrylic gouache.

 

By the way, I don't think I've earned the adjective "evil" and would appreciate your dropping it.  Thanks.

 

Ed

[johnegert]

Ed--- I think the trouble for me comes because-- unlike "regular" acrylics-- the colors, once dried, reconstitute when wet and my usual oil painting technique of brushing and more brushing rewets the undercoat. A light and purposeful brush technique is the best bet--- not exactly my usual style. 

As for the "evil" designation, I beg your pardon. One of the things about this site I enjoy most is the freewheeling sense of humor that pervades the posts. I have seen numbers of these forums turn into a grim " Don't try to take my model away from me" / " This is too important to fool around" sort of affair. This condition  I have awkwardly tried to do my bit to prevent. There was no intent to characterize you as "evil", nor to start a joke which is subsequently driven into the ground. 

john

[EdT]

John, apology accepted. I don't want to debate the humor in your use of the word "evil", but I am happy to discuss acrylic finishes. If by "reconstitute" you mean that the finish is affected by wetting after it has dried, with acrylic finishes this is simply not the case. Perhaps you are referring to non-acrylic gouache, which like watercolor, has a water soluble binder. The acrylic copolymers used in both acrylic artists colors and acrylic gouache, including Jo Sonja's, form a waterproof polymer matrix that cannot be redissolved with water after drying.

 

I do not want to give the impression that these finishes are ideal, only that they are an option - one that I have found effective. Others can try it for themselves. All finishes, in my experience have pluses and minuses, but I am quite certain from experience and on a technical basis, that the rewetting problem you describe does not exist with acrylics and should not put off people from trying these products.

 

Ed

[johnegert]

Jeez---- I think you're right about me and non-acrylic gouache..... Like you, I first used them to paint Historex figures( we're dating ourselves here) and either had beautiful results or heinous messes without really knowing why. But we obviously agree in lockstep on one thing--- objectively observed fine results are usually achieved by insanely subjective methods, and you ain't going to know what's best for you 'til you try. The first thing I'm going to do is dredge-up a tube of JO's best metallic chartreuse from the drawer and play with it again.

Damn--- talk about running a simple topic into the ground.......

john

[EdT]

Well, John. I am glad to hear that neither of us is crazy.

 

Cheers,

 

Ed

[johnegert]

Let's not be hasty, Ed....... And, no matter WHAT Ed says, spring for a bottle of Jo's Retarder......

john

[Hank]

Finally getting back to this thread:

Gentlemen all - Well, I personally like to use enamels for models. As a studio art major in college I did quite a few paintings using acrylics back in the early '70s. While my wife (in her painting) is still on their team, so to speak, I prefer the oil-based paints in modeling. FYI - my last acrylic of USS INDIANA was in 1973 and I haven't painted since. IMHO - each has it's merits and faults - each also has a place in my world!!!

I will definitely search out any and all Floquil oils and stash them away. I would just love to hear that one small company has said NO to being bought out and their products shelved.

 

Johngert - Walla!!! I just received a pkg. with 2 cans of Floquil Engine Black SPRAY and 1 can of Foquil Flat White SPRAY  

 

 

[riverboat]

  I never knew Floquil made oil based paints, The only ones I remember were their lacquer based, I didn't even realize they made enamels either since they were bought up by Testors, I loved their lacquer based and Poly S. Too bad they had to sell out to Testors .

Frank

[johnegert]

Hank---- I wish I had a nickel for every floquil spray can I've used..... a one-man ecological disaster. The one I particularly liked was "Reefer Yellow" which made a nice opaque undercoat for British yellow ochre. A Semi-load of that engine black as well.....

john

[Elia]

EdT,

 

I've been using Artist Acrylics (Liquitex soft body) for much of my current schooner model's painting. I think it works acceptably for broad brush areas, but I don't like it for any detail work, particularly when painting intricit ironwork details made from fine brass wire and whatnot. That is what I love the Floquil enamels for. They can provide a very good single or two coat solid covering of the metalwork without hiding the essentials. I'll have to look into the acrylic gouches. I have to admit I hadn't heard of the prior to your mentioning them. I'm always game to experiment with a new material or finish as a way of improving my modeling. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Cheers,

 

Elia

[EdT]

Elia,

 

Its always risky business making recommendations - especially when it comes to finishes.  I agree that the acrylic finishes have limitations.  Painting metal is one of them.  These materials were not designed for application to bare metal.  Solvent based finishes like enamel and laquer - I include Floquil in this group - are much better in this application.  I have used Floquil - brush and airbrush - to paint metal locomotive models and would not wish to consider anything else - unless I had to. 

 

I have used acrylic gouache extensively on metal, however - as a paint on tin-lead  type miniature figures.  These have to be primed first.  I use a diluted Rustoleum flat black oil based alkyd enamel for this but have also used a white flat alkyd and flat white shellac - both thinned.  The latter has advantages of very fast drying and no oil.  The acrylic will adhere to these even in diluted forms - but it is an added step.  Also, I will mention that lead can oxidize through finishes to form a white powder, I have never had this problem even on figures painted 40 years ago - a good thing because lead oxide, like lead, is toxic.

 

Also, liquitex is quite a different animal than acrylic gouache.  It dries with more gloss and I believe it is softer when dry.  I would not recommend it for painting models except for certain effects, where some gloss is needed.

 

There is no doubt that solvent based Floquil is easier to use on metal and its thin opaque finish quality can be hard to beat.  I suspect it is running into some health issues.  I do not know if this is related to the solvent or to the possible presence of lead in the finish.  It might be worth a look at the MSDS sheet for Floquil.

 

My suggestion to try acrylics assumes that the diosol based Floquil is not long for this world.  If that is not the case, stick with Floquil where it makes sense.  I will.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed

Edited September 15, 2013 by EdT