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Posted (edited)

Does anyone know the history or origin of this type of tiller rigging?

 

Tillertackle.jpg.194040c70835401acc7015f1b5e186d4.jpg

When the tiller is moved rope pays out of the tackle on one side and is taken up in the tackle on the other side. The friction of the rope passing through the blocks serves as a "damper" to prevent the tiller from swinging wildly when waves crash into the stern in a following sea.

 

The rope passes over the top of the tiller and the tiller can be fastened to it temporarily with the latch. This serves as an "Iron Mike" to lock the rudder at a desired angle.

 

I am wondering when this type of rig was introduced? I have looked through my books and can't find anything like it mentioned

 

I have seen something similar on at least one ship model. .

 

I first saw this rig on the Lady Washington replica that sails out of Gray's Harbor in Washington State USA. Here are some photos of the tiller on that ship.

 

Tiller1.jpg.9e5976ef16abb8707b5b5c722c768e51.jpgTiller2.jpg.70867ba9da2c00d0fcadf1009f08efc0.jpg

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

I imagine it came about sometime not long after the introduction of the centerline rudder.   I could not find anything specific but the following article from Johns Hopkins is interesting and may shed some light.

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/33297

Allan

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Posted

Allan,

 

Thanks.

 

One of the problems (the major problem?) with trying to build a model of historic vessels is determining the small details, such as this rudder control rig. I can find descriptions of the whipstaff-tiller arrangement, and the more elaborate rigging from a ship's wheel to the tiller. But if a vessel had just a tiller attached to the rudder, that is all there is to it.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Dr PR said:

determining the small details

Totally agreed.  There is a TON of information from contemporary plans, contracts, and text from the 17th century on and it gets better into the 18th an 19th centuries, but in the words of Gilda Radner, It's Always Something and these little things take longer than many of the bigger things to figure out.   I just found discrepancies this morning in the Simm Comfort edition of The Elements and Practices of Naval Architecture scantlings by David Steel that would make for very obvious possible mistakes on deck for some larger vessels regarding the heights of the coamings and head ledges.    

Allan

 

 

Edited by allanyed

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Posted

I have been looking through Marquardt's "The Global Schooner" and have found a few model photos and illustrations showing what appears to be this rig. Actually, on some earlier and smaller vessels the rig may have used only two single blocks attached to opposite sided of the deck by the bulwarks. The rope ran from the tiller through one block, through the other, and back to the tiller.

 

On page 152 Marquardt describes "steering tackle." Two tackles were rigged on either side of the tiller. The rope was attached to the side of the deck. From there it led through a sheave in the tiller and back to a block attached to the side of the deck. From this block the rope ran forward where it was handled. The vessel was steered by hauling on the tackle on one side and letting out the line on the other. This is different from what I have described above.

 

It was a simple modification to use a single rope that passed through both blocks and around a drum that was turned by a steering wheel.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

When I took my first sailing lessons in 1971 or so, I was told to use the loose end of the main sheet in case of need to steady the tiller.

 

I gather there are many variants of this depending on the size of the vessel. Tiller-steering was also very common even for comparatively large ships, i.e. smacks, (small) schooners etc. The steering wheel and related gear was an extra expenditure. One must assume that some form of steadying the tiller was employed. Depending on the size this could be single rope from the windward side, two ropes from each side wound around the tiller, or a more elaborate arrangement, as described above. In some regions of Europe, e.g. the Dutch/German North Sea coast also steering wheels mounted on the tiller were used in the 18th and early 19th century.

 

The problem is indeed, that this falls under the category of 'running rigging' and is seldom documented on technical drawings.

 

Below is an example of tiller-mounted steering wheel from a model of a snow-brig of 1839 in the Altona Museum (Hamburg). It is one of a series of models that were built in the early 20th century by shipwrights from drawings and other sources in the museum:

image.png.d3ac9f3c0468b0ea4acfc050542c1682.png

And an example of the double tackle on the model of a schooner from 1846:

image.png.c98e91a062e681f87ac57ae1a517a80b.png

 

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Wefalck,

 

The tackle shown on the Levante model is similar to what I saw on the Lady Washington and some other ship models. It appears to be the "steering tackle" that Marquadt describes. However, it isn't the same as on the Lady Washington - the left (first) drawing is the Lady Washington rig, and the right drawing (second) is the steering tackle that Marquardt describes and appears to be on the Levante model.

 

Tillertackle.jpg.5f7ed2f2ea80470939b0f480e7dcc12b.jpgSteeringtackle.jpg.74c74556be7e3ae527fd57221f46b658.jpg

 

 

Now I guess my original question, when the Lady Washington rig came into use and how common it was, has become a question about both of these rigs.

 

The Levante model indicates the steering tackle was in use in the 1830s. The mechanical advantage it provides for controlling the rudder is obvious. And it is easy to see how it was adapted to work with a steering wheel turning a drum with the rope wound around it.

 

It is also easy to see how the steering tackle was modified to get the Lady Washington rig. But it seems to me that the Lady Washington rig gives the same mechanical advantage as the steering tackle rig Marquardt describes, plus it provides a simple way to secure the rudder at a desired angle. It isn't much different from the steering wheel mechanism.

 

This is just another rabbit hole to fall into when trying to understand running rigging on ships of the past!

Edited by Dr PR

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

It may be indeed very difficult to put a date on such arrangements - unless one chances upon an illustration from the period in question. My guess is that not many such illustrations taken on board a ship would be available from before the early 19th century. Van de Velde jr. might be an exception, but I don't recall immediately any on-board drawings by him. 

 

As can be seen on the models quoted and many other ship models (e.g. Dutch models), it was common to have a pin or knob at the end of the tiller, which served as belaying point or brake for the tiller ropes.

 

Actually, the arrangement with a drum and steering-wheel on the tiller may be a quite old one. It was used on the 'steert' (i.e. the tail) of Dutch windmills for centuries - a rope was stretched between two of a circle of bollards let into the ground for that purpose; the rope was wound around a drum that was worked with a wheel that looked like a ship's steering-wheel; the purpose was similar to that of a ship's tiller, to turn the mill (or its cap) into the wind using the mechanical advantage of the system. I think some mills also used tackles for the same purpose.

It is difficult to know, whether this idea was adopted from ships or the other way around. Using spoked wheels to turn winding drums was also common on water-wells.

 

I would assume that this was a technological principle that had been around for centuries.

 

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Posted

Wolfram zu Mondfeld (Historic Ship Models, Sterling Publishing Co, Inc, New York, 1989, page 148) says the ship's steering wheel was introduced early in the 18th century, superseding the whipstaff. Bjorn Landstrom  (Sailing Ships, Doubleday & Company, Garden City, New York, 1969, page 161) says the same thing. George Campbell (The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay, Model Shipways Co. Inc., Bogota NJ, 1977, page 26) also says the wheel came into use in the early 18th century.

 

None of these authors gives a reference.

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted (edited)

This is a common problem with amateur historians, they collect large amounts of knowledge from which they quote, but then are not able (or willing) to give proper references ...

 

It will be near impossible to prove a date, when steering wheels were introduced, but one may be able to pin down a period, when the whipstaff definitely disappeared. 

 

One should dive into the reserve collections of the various maritime museums. They usually have functional models for innovations that were proposed to the Admiralty or to the (predecessors of) patent offices. The wedging device on the tiller of LADY WASHINGTON could be a case like that. I have not seen that before - that's why an open rope and a pin or something to belay the rope was used. 

 

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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Posted

Wefalck,

 

Unfortunately I live in an area with very few nautical resources. I really can't afford (or don't want to) the exorbitant costs to travel across North America or to Europe to research these things. So I am limited to what I can find on the Internet and local libraries.

 

That is why this and other ship modeling forums are so important. You and I are having this conversation from opposite sides of the planet! You are sharing your knowledge with me, and all the others around the world, on this forum.

 

Thank you and the others who participate in these discussions!

Phil

 

Current build: USS Cape MSI-2

Current build: Albatros topsail schooner

Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model

 

Posted

Phil, your question made me think and that is how ideas, discussions and eventually insights develop ...

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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